How Sad...

[desert_island_1]

Well, Terri Shciavo passed away this morning. He husband apparently did not let her parents be with her when she died. Here is a place to give you $0.02 (yes, even CDN cents)

 

[SumTinWong]

I cannot comment on how I feel about this because it will need to be edited and I may recieve a warning. Let's just say I ache for that lady.

 

[desert_island_1]

I cannot comment on how I feel about this because it will need to be edited and I may recieve a warning. Let's just say I ache for that lady.

Same here.

 

[Iollain]

I feel it is all very wrong to deny anyone food and water. But i myself would not want to live like that. That is really cruel to not let her parents be there at the time of her death.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

That accusation about her parents not being there has not been proven yet. I think its hersay.
This verse came to my mind.
Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

Are we not allowed to talk about this in here?
GEL

 

[Matthan]

I feel so sorry for Terri. Let's all pray for her parents, please!

Matthan <J><

 

[Unnamed Servant]

I am saddened for Terri's family but why is there so much focus on one person when there are people in our own towns that are being raped and beaten. I do sincerely feel sad for her family, but there are people dieing all around us. I'm saying this primarily for myself because I feel I allow the media and isolated cases to dominate my prayer life when there are people and families all around me that need prayer and i ignore them.

love-through-Christ,

matt

 

[TwinCrier]

What can I say, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Terri fought long and hard for her life. She showed her incredible will to live over and over. Still, while her spirit won many battles, her body has lost the war. She fought the good fight, but still became a casualty. May God's peace be upon her.

 

[ZiSunka]

I think it's horrible that we live in a society where a husband has a legal right to starve to death a wife that he doesn't want any more, a profoundly disabled wife at that.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I think it's horrible that we live in a society where a husband has a legal right to starve to death a wife that he doesn't want any more, a profoundly disabled wife at that.

If this is how society thinks, then my mother did not pass away, she committed suicide.
I think its horrible the way this husband is being judged. Its a horrible decision, but if it were my husband, I would have been horribly upset if he kept me going for 19 years! My husband and I both agreed that we would NOT want to be kept that way for any length of time, especially NOT for 19 years!

GEL

 

[ZiSunka]

In every state of our country it is illegal to starve to death a dog or a cat, but it is okay for us to starve to death a human being because she is disabled and unwanted? It makes us a society of barbarism, not of mercy.

Starving someone to death is NOT merciful.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

In every state of our country it is illegal to starve to death a dog or a cat, but it is okay for us to starve to death a human being because she is disabled and unwanted? It makes us a society of barbarism, not of mercy.

Starving someone to death is NOT merciful.

In this country, most animals have more rights than humans. I have to agree with that comment!
My mother was put on a morphine drip, that was hardly barbarism. She was feeling no pain at all.
I have mixed feelings about this case. I think that the parents should stop making the husband out to be a killer. Who in the WORLD would want to live like that? The husband waited it out for 19 years. That is hardly barbaric! Is there anyone on this board that would like to live in a vegitative state for the rest of thier lives? Please let me know if you are out there because i cannot fathom anyone wanting that!
GEL

 

[ZiSunka]

Who in the WORLD would want to live like that? The husband waited it out for 19 years. That is hardly barbaric! Is there anyone on this board that would like to live in a vegitative state for the rest of thier lives? Please let me know if you are out there because i cannot fathom anyone wanting that!

Actually, only 14 years, but that is beside the point.

I recently heard a great interview with a woman who was PVS for three years. She said that the whole time she was fully consious, but she could not make herself communicate, and because her EEG looked abnormal, she was considered to be in the same condition as Terri Shiavo. She would try to talk and people would say she was having "vocal reflexes" that originated in the brain stem and that her utterances didn't mean anything. She would try to spell out word in sign language or by writing letters in the air, and her caregivers thought she was having spasms and would sedate her. She would try to motion to people that she was still in there, but the doctors thought she was expressing pain and would medicate her.

She struggled and struggled to let someone know that she was okay, making noises and movements exactly like Terri's, but no one understood her or expected her to be communicating so they ignored her. She even had to listen to them talk about removing her feeding tube.

One day, she started to have more control over her body, and finally she was able to whisper and that's when the doctors thought there was some miracle and her brain had been restored.

Even if Terri's condition was different, human beings are not disposable. Just because Michael Shiavo promised his long-term mistress (they have two children together already and he moved in with her about 2 months after he got the big malpractice settlement) that he would marry her by the time she delivered their last child doesn't mean that Terri should have had to die. There is divorce. He could have just divorced her and let her parents take over her care. From the big settlement, 700,000 dollars were to be set aside for rehabilitation for Terri, but the money was spent on a new house for his mistress and one legal fees to kill her. It's funny, but he didn't remember that Terri had said she didn't want to live as a "vegetable" until he had already moved in with the other woman and she was pregnant with their first child.

Life is precious and every human being was created in the image of God. Sometimes he allows one of us to become profoundly disabled, maybe as a test of our love for one another. When we start to see that person as less than human, when we forget to look for the glimmer of the divine in him or her, then it is easy for us to justify disposing of that which is inconvenient, expensive or annoying to make our lives easier. Every life deserves the best love we can give. Starving someone to death is never the best love.

I'm sorry that your mother became sick to the point that she was unable to communicate with you. But she was not less human or less precious at that time. Letting someone go who is being kept artificially alive by a respirator or heart machine is one thing, but to withhold nutrition and hydration is something I can't imagine putting anyone I love through.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

She would try to spell out word in sign language or by writing letters in the air, and her caregivers thought she was having spasms and would sedate her. She would try to motion to people that she was still in there, but the doctors thought she was expressing pain and would medicate her.

This is not the same as Terri.

One day, she started to have more control over her body, and finally she was able to whisper and that's when the doctors thought there was some miracle and her brain had been restored.

Terri was like this for over 3 years and never once regained anything back.

Life is precious and every human being was created in the image of God.

This is incorrect, we are not all created in the image of God.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
But I understand your point.

Sometimes he allows one of us to become profoundly disabled, maybe as a test of our love for one another. When we start to see that person as less than human, when we forget to look for the glimmer of the divine in him or her, then it is easy for us to justify disposing of that which is inconvenient, expensive or annoying to make our lives easier. Every life deserves the best love we can give. Starving someone to death is never the best love.

I don't think that Terri was viewed by anyone as less than human. I could understand all of this anger if this just happened to her last year. But 14 YEARS!!! That is along time! Tell me, would you rather live like that for the rest of your life or fast your way into heaven?

 

[ZiSunka]

This is not the same as Terri.

Yes it is. She said that her movements and expressions were identical to Terri's.

Terri was like this for over 3 years and never once regained anything back.

So? Last year a woman who was in a coma worse than Terri's for twenty years came out of it. There are a dozen stories just like hers, where a person thought to be brain dead for a decade or more spontaneously came out of it. My father's cousin was hit on the head with a goal post in high school in the 50's and was in a coma for 19 years and came out of it. That was in the day when no one would have thought of ending her life by starvation, though.

This is incorrect, we are not all created in the image of God.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Not everyone is a child of God, but everyone was created in His image:
"Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." " Genesis 1:26

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Not everyone is a child of God, but everyone was created in His image:
"Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." " Genesis 1:26

read further here.......

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

We are created in the image of Adam, not God. Only when we are born again are we in the image of God. But this is another subject. Maybe we can talk about this outside this thread.


This is a serious subject for everyone. I can understand all the emotion. I think it is wrong though for the parents to make accusations toward the husband about abuse and other things. What is so ironic is that her eating disorder was how she got in the state she was in and starving is how she ended up dying. It is just sad. Now, if all of these people who are so concerned with life start pushing for abortion to be illegal then I might take all of the "protesters" more seriously.
GEL

 

[P_G]

-->>MOD HAT ON<<--
You may absolutely talk about this here
I encourage you to talk about this
You may even get really angry if you want to

Remember you are a Christian

-->>MOD HAT OFF<<--

 

[mesue]

As a Registered Nurse, I have taken care of a lot of people in the same shape as Terri. I hesitate to say diagnosis because I think (and this is just my humble opinion) Terri was misdiagnosed. I really believe she could have been rehabbed. She clearly was responsive and responded well to her parents. I think her husband had ulterior motives driven by the love of money. I praise God that He is the God of righteousness and that her husband has to answer to Him for what he has done to his wife.
I, personally, wouldn't want to live like that. If I can't wipe my own butt, have a coherent conversation with my loved ones or laugh and goof around with them, I don't want to be here. I have taken care of too many people like this and it breaks my heart. More often than not, the novelty of the tragedy wears off and that person is left to lie in a nursing home bed all alone with no one to visit them. It's a lonely exsistance. And a sad statement for humanity.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Green Eyed Lady,

To purposely end your life because you are not satisfied with the quality of it is pretty much the deffinition of suicide. I don't believe artificially preserving life through "unnatural" means is necessary.. or even good. IE having a machine breath for you, pump your heart for you etc. If there is hope of recovery in such a case sure... but that is not the issue here. It might seem like a fine line, but it is a HUGE issue. To unnaturally end a life is massively different than to choose not to artificially preserve a life.

This is where the media spin comes in. Most people in this country think that Terri was a completely unresponsive vegetable with no hope of recovery, and who could not live without artificial support. Some of this is outright untrue, other parts of it are simply unknown, but none of it is actually accurate. '

Several nurses who cared for Terri have sworn affidavits that her husband deliberate, for years, refused to allow her any therapy to attempt to recover any of her motor function. Thus it is unkown whether, or how much she would have recovered because her husband specificly blocked any attempts to help her do so. Noteably, the husband recieved a $6 million insurance settlement to provide Terri medical care and therapy, and almost immediately reduced all her care to minimal levels and did his best to make sure she did not recover and died.
Among the things which Terri's husband refused to allow was a swallow test to see if Terri could actually eat and drink on her own. There were again a couple of nurses who testified that they had given her food and drink oraly succussfuly, and for their trouble Mr. Schiavo got them fired. They also stated that Mr. Schiavo at that time had tried to kill his wife by locking himself in her room and giving her insulin injections.

Its true that Terri was brain damaged and not capable of speech, however, she was not vegetative, or unresponsive. As a part of their effort to save her, her parents released video of some of their time with her which showed her moving, responding to their presence and conversation, and smilling.

Unnamed Servant,

I understand where your coming from, and I've often felt the same way, about many of the cases that get blown up in the news and become the focus of the nation for weeks on end. In this case however, it was probably deserved.

The reason is this. This case will likely be a landmark.. a watershed case determining what course american law and society will follow.

This is true in two areas.. first is the issue of life and death in society. This case is a big step towards the acceptance of euthanasia. American society is literaly right on the edge with this issue and now we're beginning to lean over the abyss. in this case the argument was actually put forward and had significant popular support that Terri should be allowed to die simply because she would be a financial drain on the state. The question of who is paying for keeping her alive and is it worth it was debated in the public forum, and many people came down on the side that she should be done away with simply out of practicality.

The Netherlands have always been a few steps ahead of us in abortion, euthanasia, drugs etc... but we are basicly following in their foot steps. right now, it is legal in the netherlands for Parents to have their baby killed if it is born with defects... this is not even abortion, or partial birth abortion anymore, its actually legal to kill already born children.

This is whats refered to as a "slippery slope" once you loose your footing, as we are doing right now, you can't get it back and the more you slide the faster you slide.

 

[SteveR2021]

Is there anyone on this board that would like to live in a vegitative state for the rest of thier lives? Please let me know if you are out there because i cannot fathom anyone

Here I am...Yes I would choose to live in a vegitative state for the rest of my life rather than die. Not because I want to put off the joys of heaven...but because there is a slight chance that i might be able to pray - i want every last drop of my life to be poured out for God's glory...why rush home when there is more work to be done?

Of course there is also the possiblity that I could be healed - after all we serve the God of the impossible!

Finally, I don't know that being in a 'vegitative' (whatever that means) state is less pleasing then the life I have now (and no i am not depressed )...it's easy to think that there is less value in that kind of life - I have often thought that about blind people...but i know that they would heartily disagree. In fact Fanny Crosby counted it a privilege to be blind. My point is that we can't place value on someone else's experience...we simply can not know.

And yes, I rather live in a vegitative state for the rest of my life than be terminated...and that's with the hope of eternity in Heaven.