TagliatelliMonster
Well-Known Member
Most of the earth's surface is also hostile to us.
In fact, just about anything and their mother on this planet is out to kill us.
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I don't think that the Lord God wants us on that planet to be honest. Otherwise-why make it so hostile?
Most of the earth's surface is also hostile to us.
In fact, just about anything and their mother on this planet is out to kill us.
Sadly, such fate could also happen on Earth.
Water vapor is a potent greenhouse gas. Higher global temperatures means more water vapor in the atmosphere and higher greenhouse gas levels. It could reach a tipping point where an unstoppable runaway cycle can occur and the Earth would undergo a similar transformation to Venus.
Who knows, Venus could be in a better situation from a planet's perspective, at least no one is bothering her!
I only need more time on my projects and they will be completed a lot sooner.
I don't have time for it atm. Very busy on other things! Maybe in a year two I'll have more time for it and consider moving somewhere so the parts I needed would be more conveniently available.
That's a pretty close match to our gravity.The surface gravity on Venus is only 0.903 times the Earth's surface gravity. It is the atmospheric pressure that is 92 times the Earth's atmospheric pressure.
We are definitely very calmly and efficiently Venaforming the Earth as some would express it. Weird since it is comparable to a crew of a spaceship screwing around with the life support system that they depend on to survive. Anyone viewing such a crew would immediately conclude that they were insane. Especially if they tried to reason with them and they still insisted on taking a sledge hammer to the life support system.
BTW
I wish you success on your work. It would be a great contribution to science if you succeed.
Mars would be fine.Since Venus is the only planet in our solar system that provides adequate gravity it's surface would be ideal for permanent colonization since such things as bone loss and blindness due to microgravity effects would be avoided.
Actually I remember reading such a novel although I can't recall its title or author. There was a sort of civil war going on in these huge long-duration mission ship. Unfortunately we take our human tendencies everywhere we go. Hopefully choosing the right people for such crucial missions will prevent or drastically reduce the likelihood of those kinds of self-destructive scenarios.There were movies written along those plot.
Usually, they are survivors of some cataclysm cooperating to survive using advanced technology. Give or take, many generations later, they completely forget their origins and the cooperation breaks down and gives way to a system based on greed similar to capitalism which makes the survivors blind to the self-destructive ways they are heading to.
Money or greed makes people insane. The same thing that motivates a lot of people is also the same thing that makes a lot of people blind.
Systems put up in space like the ISS or future space colonies on Mars for very long term missions for example are based on a system of cooperation. Some missions are envisioned to last over ten years. At least it is a conceptual proof that we can thrive on a system that isn't based on greed like what we have now.
Thanks for the well-wishes! Either one of them would be great even if only one worked or I was only able to finish one. They are both intended for space exploration anyway.
Hopefully choosing the right people for such crucial missions will prevent or drastically reduce the likelihood of those kinds of self-destructive scenarios.
This is why I'm quite fond of employing robots in just about anything slated for the future
It is probably the most boresome way of expanding the frontier in space but "unfortunately", it is also the most reliable when cost and making a good impression on our interstellar debut is a premium.
There's always this "something went very wrong" when deploying large fleets of robotic hardware, but only happens in movies, never in real life!
Actually, when I consider the proposed space mission to Mars my main concern isn't realy any technological failure. My main concern is how humans will manage to be cooped up in what seems like a sardine can for the duration of the trip there. I mean, seven months is an awfully long time. Suppose one of them develops explosive diarrhea with the attendant flatulence? Then what?
How long does it take to travel to Mars? - A Mission to Mars - Mars One
Guess they really have to avoid potential "cry babies" in the selection of the crew!
I've actually spend over a year in living conditions a lot worse than that experience by US Navy submarine crews.
I didn't have a window in my room too. I even fought to preserve order by everyone sharing our crowded living quarters because there are some who had very little consideration to others who are asleep.
It's quite workable but I can tell that it takes a special breed of people to successfully coexist in such conditions. The crew selected must have high levels of empathy and courtesy. Huge emphasis must be given to interpersonal qualities than the skills required for the mission. The skills should only be secondary in consideration. Like what advantage to have the best specialists in the world when they act like jerks and have no manners. It would be chaos in no time! They won't even last 6 months!
The problem with a planet like Mars is the much less latent energy available. It would cause difficulties in large scale operations. It's very thin atmosphere means you'll have to get oxygen from somewhere. It's low gravity and absence of magnetic field means it might not keep its atmosphere for long and would imply difficult maintenance, post-terraformation.
The moons of Jupiter exists in a highly radioactive environment that is coming from Jupiter itself and is much farther away.
As for Venus, the CO2 atmosphere can be readily and easily converted to Oxygen through photosynthesis. The challenge is how to make the conversion at planet-changing rates.
Possible causes for the depletion of a previously thicker Martian atmosphere include:
- Gradual erosion of the atmosphere by solar wind. On 5 November 2015, NASA announced that data from MAVEN shows that the erosion of Mars' atmosphere increases significantly during solar storms. This shift took place between about 4.2 to 3.7 billion years ago, as the shielding effect of the global magnetic field was lost when the planet's internal dynamo cooled.[13][14][85][86]
- Catastrophic collision by a body large enough to blow away a significant percentage of the atmosphere;[87]
- Mars’ low gravity allowing the atmosphere to "blow off" into space by Jeans escape.[88]
It certainly would be a real shame if we would suddenly and unexpectedly need to add ISII, or Interplanetary Spaceflight Induced Insanity to our list of obstacles.
With the exception of low gravity, I went through a pretty tough situation just fine.
The thing I went through, we're not only sharing a small room, noisy neighbors, ration-quality food, but we also couldn't go anywhere. It's somewhere in the Middle East and trips outside our miserable rooms are very limited. If the searing temperatures didn't kill you, some random Arab might! We endured it for over a year.
Granted, some of our colleagues suffered from PTSD and possibly dementia/insanity from a combination of homesickness, and dangerous and miserable conditions. But most of us got through fine.
Most of us came from poor neighborhoods anyways. Toughened by life I guess.
Long duration space missions would be cake walk in comparison. At least you'll have the best view in the house, surrounded by high tech equipment and top caliber personnel (hoping they are not jerks!).
I always imagined the USA military providing humane housing for its soldiers. So I imagine that your somehow were isolated behind enemy lines ad out of contact with the main units-correct.
BTW
The psychological stress involved in moving away from the Earth into the endless void of space is worse than being on the moon since on the moon at least you can see home hovering in the night sky and that provides a sense of hope and comfort. But in a trip towards Mars, our Earth eventually becomes just another insignificant dot of light in the seemingly endless darkness as the distance gradually increase's. Better not to look back at it al all.
In short, nerves will become frayed and deep fears will have to be repressed in order to maintain discipline and avoid depression. Of course all this has been taken into consideration and will be prepared for. Nevertheless, simulations are not reality and reality if far more difficult to handle once it arrives with all its hideously real consequences.
It reminds me in a way on how old age and its negative physical consequences are calmly viewed by the very young and how fear suddenly begins to creep up on them as they suddenly realize that they too are beginning to face its realities.
Send all the evolution scientists over there.
In a couple of generations, their "puddle of water" should fit the pothole.
Then it's a simple matter of convincing their grandchildren they can do what God did to the earth after the Flood and voila: they may not be able to completely terraform Venus, but they'll convince everyone else they did.
And they'll all live happily ever after.
Sorry for giving you the wrong impression. I'm not in the military.I'm only an expat worker in the Middle East. But I guess the conditions we faced seems to be worse than what US military personnel faced!
It's just a fact that some Arab countries in the Middle East like Saudi, Qatar, etc tend to be extremely shrewd with handling of expats from 3rd world countries.
Prison-like living conditions is the average despite the fact they are one of the richest nations on the planet.
Back to topic. I know how it is to be away from everyone you know with very little opportunity of returning home. In a place that virtually treats you like a prisoner.. I endured it for two years while trying to work flawlessly in the HQ.
I believe it's possible. You just need a crew who can effectively manage their emotions, remain very calm even in life-threatening situations and be reasonable.
I read an article about the very rigorous process of selecting submarine crews for the US Navy. I think such standards must be imposed even on the civilian specialists that will be included on deep space missions.
Submariners spent years on missions, many months underwater without surfacing and without any view! And they seem fine. But of course, the people who crew submarines aren't your usual Navy guys, they are quite something out of this world maybe!
Since Venus is the only planet in our solar system that provides adequate gravity it's surface would be ideal for permanent colonization since such things as bone loss and blindness due to microgravity effects would be avoided. However we have the atmospheric pressure which is 100 times greater than Earth's at sea level and the corrosive sulfuric acid laden clouds and temperatures extremes capable of melting lead problems that prevent it. What would be the quickest way to transform Venus into an Earthlike habitat if indeed we ever decide to try it?
My fault. I tend to forget that not everyone there was in there to fight.
I agree that not everyone is cut out for that kind of challenge and that both training and temperament must be taken into account. There was this Russian training of astronauts for prolonged isolation with a crew of approx. four males and one female. The female dropped out of the program because she said that the men were beginning to stare at her in funny ways and were beginning to make absolutely unnecessary body contact within the cramped quarters.
It just wouldn't be possible, given the complexity of the system which supports life on earth(which Venus is lacking many of) and the interdependency of many of it's species.
Its not like we can take a planet-sized comet of a x-hydroxide and simply rain it onto the planet to neutralize the acid... The planet has its own mechanisms & characteristics which, quite frankly, we do not have the know-how or understanding to successfully implement such dramatic changes to it. We don't even fully understand the earth itself, let alone attempt to terraform a planet with a hostile/poisonous environment.
The terraforming of Venus is the hypothetical process of engineering the global environment of the planet Venus in such a way as to make it suitable for human habitation.[1][2][3] Terraforming Venus was first seriously proposed by the astronomer Carl Sagan in 1961,[4] although fictional treatments, such as The Big Rain by Poul Anderson, preceded it.
Adjustments to the existing environment of Venus to support human life would require at least three major changes to the planet.[3] These three changes are closely interrelated, because Venus's extreme temperature is due to the greenhouse effect caused by its dense carbon-dioxide atmosphere:
Terraforming of Venus - Wikipedia
- Reducing Venus's surface temperature of 462 °C (864 °F).
- Eliminating most of the planet's dense 9.2 MPa (91 atm) carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide atmosphere, via removal or conversion to some other form.
- Addition of breathable oxygen to the atmosphere.
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