How people are getting around the new Texas abortion law.

[renniks]

I know you won’t accept this argument. But legal abortion is not an issue of biology. It’s an issue of law. This is Sec. 1 of the 14th Amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Where does the Constitution say that the unborn are “persons” with 14th Amendment rights? Nowhere. But note the 2nd clause of the 2nd sentence:

… nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…

Whether you like it or not, an abortion is a medical procedure, agreed to by a pregnant woman and her physician. If it’s done according to accepted medical standards, with proper informed consent, the state has no business interfering. State laws that make it difficult, or impossible for a woman to undergo said procedure, without due process, are violations of her liberty under the 14th Amendment. That was the legal reasoning behind the Roe v. Wade decision. This Texas law is clearly a substantive due process violation because it impugns her right to make a medical decision regarding her own body. And it does no harm to another “person” in the legal sense.

If this is wrong, the proper—and really the only way—to correct it nationwide is to amend the Constitution to define the unborn as persons.

Lots of laws are immoral.

 

[jayem]

Lots of laws are immoral.

And there’s a right and proper way to change them.

 

[renniks]

And there’s a right and proper way to change them.

Like happened in Texas.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Like happened in Texas.

Except people are ignoring Texas craziness. And ordering abortion pills. Since in nobodies business.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortion.

Roe v Wade didn't cause women to start having abortions, and so overturning Roe v Wade or trying to skirt around Roe v Wade isn't going to change anything as far as abortion goes.

But everyone involved can pat themselves on the back knowing that rape victims now will be forced to carry to term.

Instead of actually doing anything to meaningfully reduce abortion all that has been accomplished is a way to hurt women.

Congratulations?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Desk trauma]

Instead of actually doing anything to meaningfully reduce abortion all that has been accomplished is a way to hurt women.

Congratulations?

That’s a feature, not a bug.

 

[98cwitr]

Who should be charged for murder? Abortions aren't illegal in most states. And should never be. A private matter. And women aren't going to tell people their real name.

Murder usually is a private matter, until it's exposed.

He's doesn't give people good reason not to abort. With his mental issues . That will be passed on to his children or there's.

Selective eugenics isn't a reason to kill a baby.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Texas are enacting a law making ordering abortion pills a criminal offence.

If that were only true. Hopefully, the Texas Legislature can figure out a way to stop that evil pill from getting into the state.

 

[Desk trauma]

If that were only true. Hopefully, the Texas Legislature can figure out a way to stop that evil pill from getting into the state.

Works like a charm with other illegal pills. The drugs being perfectly legal federally and in every state that boarders Texas will make it even easier.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Murder usually is a private matter, until it's exposed.

Except clump of cells isn't murder .

Selective eugenics isn't a reason to kill a baby.

I prefer BC , instead of abortions. But I do believe mentally ill and drug addicts should get a long lasting BC put in them. Until hey can prove they're capable of making responsible decisions. I've seen to many drug babies and children suffer because of people, that shouldn't been able to have children.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Very few atheists oppose abortion. Most are in favour of women having privacy and autonomy over their bodies and having choice rather than BIG government deciding for them.

There are more than you think. Doing a quick calculation there are probably over 4 million nonbelievers in the US that are against abortion. I found that 8% of the population has no religious beliefs and 16% of those oppose abortion. There are many prolife humanists out there and many cases can be made for this position, some better than others.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortion.

Roe v Wade didn't cause women to start having abortions, and so overturning Roe v Wade or trying to skirt around Roe v Wade isn't going to change anything as far as abortion goes.

But everyone involved can pat themselves on the back knowing that rape victims now will be forced to carry to term.

Instead of actually doing anything to meaningfully reduce abortion all that has been accomplished is a way to hurt women.

Congratulations?

-CryptoLutheran

Laws against theft does not stop stealing either. So why do we have them?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Texas lawman threatens corporation for exercising its religious rights.

Houston-based Republican Rep. Briscoe Cain sent cease and desist letters to Citigroup and abortion funds announcing he would introduce a bill barring them from doing business with any company “that pays abortion-related expenses of its employees or that provides abortion coverage as an employee benefit.”

In a filing written for an April 26 meeting, Citigroup wrote: “In response to changes in reproductive health-care laws in certain states in the U.S., beginning in 2022 we provide travel benefits to facilitate access to adequate resources.”

--

Closer to the OP topic, the article mentions other companies that are doing things to help the women of Texas.

In September 2021, Salesforce told employees the company would help them and their families relocate if they had issues with reproductive health care in their states.

Lyft CEO Logan Green announced the company would pay legal fees for any drivers sued under the Texas law for helping women get abortions.

The parent company of Tinder and OkCupid, Match Group Inc., announced it too was creating a fund for its Texas employees impacted by the abortion law.

According to Bloomberg, the dating app Bumble Inc. also announced a fund that would support “the reproductive rights of women and people across the gender spectrum who seek abortions in Texas.”

 

[Tanj]

There are more than you think. Doing a quick calculation there are probably over 4 million nonbelievers in the US that are against abortion. I found that 8% of the population has no religious beliefs and 16% of those oppose abortion. There are many prolife humanists out there and many cases can be made for this position, some better than others.

Evidence please.

 

[Mayzoo]

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortion.

Roe v Wade didn't cause women to start having abortions, and so overturning Roe v Wade or trying to skirt around Roe v Wade isn't going to change anything as far as abortion goes.

But everyone involved can pat themselves on the back knowing that rape victims now will be forced to carry to term.

Instead of actually doing anything to meaningfully reduce abortion all that has been accomplished is a way to hurt women.

Congratulations?

-CryptoLutheran

Illegal clinics will pop back up and unsanitary, life-threatening and/or fertility threatening abortions will be performed when women cannot get the abortion pills.

I am doubtful a significant amount more abortions occur because of Roe vs Wade verdict, and I am doubtful a significant amount fewer will be performed if it is rescinded.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Evidence please.

Public Opinion on Abortion

https://www.prolifehumanists.org/secular-case-against-abortion/

My point was that there are secular arguments against abortion and there are more prolife atheists like myself than people realize.

 

[Tanj]

.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If you're just automatically assuming that " unaffiliated" in your first source means "nonbelievers" or atheists then I think you've made a mistake. Further evidence would be needed to adequately support your claim to the extent you intend.

Ok, like I said, my point was that there are prolife atheists and reasonable arguments to be prolife that do not reference religion. If you are not convinced of this then ok.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes, they exist and have their arguments. The contention is how many of them there are. That pew poll you referenced is inadequate to determine that.

This from the friendly atheist site in 2014 shows polling from 2012 that has 19% prolife as atheist, agnostic and not affiliated. I doubt these numbers have gone down since 2012.

Yes, There Are Pro-Life Atheists Out There. Here’s Why I’m One of Them

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Same problem. Of that 19%, how many are atheist, how many are agnostic, and how many are non-affiliated/no religion?
Atheist and agnostic are close enough to put in the same bucket. But "Non-affiliated" and "No Religion" doesn't mean atheist or agnostic, and therefore could have pro-life views basing from their belief in a god/higher power. That would skew the numbers heavily, especially if we know what portion of the 19% they make up, and what exactly it means to be "non-affiliated" and "no religion."

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't think those polls give us enough information other than "yes pro-life atheists exist" which is pretty banal. I'm just curious if that viewpoint is a minority or a super-minority.

Even if only 2.5% of the 19% of those people are atheist/agnostic which I think is a low estimate, it still means that there are over 1 million atheist/agnostic prolife people in the US.

In the end the amount of people that subscribe to an idea does not make it moral. My only point was that we get overlooked as non existent by many and we should be counted as part of the pro life crowd. It is not just a religious argument. I don't think we are insignificant.