How old is the world?

A4C · Jul 4, 2005

Praxiteles said:
The Big Bang has exactly *nothing* to do with evolution. It has exactly the same relevance to ToE as it has to the design schematics for a dishwasher.

And evolution has as much relevance to the existance of man as a dishwasher being made without a designer or a schematic

Praxiteles · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
Unless the Big Bang occured, why are we here? The atheists don't have a replacement theory based on REAL evidence.

OK, first off, cosmology is not atheism. More Christians than atheists accept the Big Bang based on the evidence (red shift, COBE etc).

Secondly, could you please apologise for conflating cosmological theories with biological ones?

Thirdly, why are we here? I don't know.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
The Big Bang's the Big Dud. It's foundational to Evolution, though.

This is a common misconception held by people that have no idea what cosmology or evolution is.

Praxiteles · Jul 4, 2005

A4C said:
And evolution has as much relevance to the existance of man as a dishwasher being made without a designer or a shematic

Really? How do you get that?

nvxplorer · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
Unless the Big Bang occured, why are we here? The atheists don't have a replacement theory based on REAL evidence.

You don't get it, do you.

I'm not talking about the big bang. I'm talking about dishonesty. If I were an alien, ignorant of evolution and creation claims, I would see the creationist argument (as you present it), and immediately know that you were selling me a load of bull. Game over.

I don't take kindly to liars. Honesty is the framework of my personal moral code. I'd like to see a little of that good ol' Christian morality practiced by creationists. Is that asking too much?

Battie · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
Or they are telling the truth and YOU are the one who's decieved.

The author is tearing down a strawman. It doesn't even matter if the Big Bang is true in this case. What is being presented on that website is a lie about what the Big Bang says. That's dishonest, bad science, and sure doesn't make me feel like rejoining the YEC side. If they really have something that supports a young earth then the should try to disprove what the Big Bang theory actually says, not some half-baked version that a minimal amount of research could correct.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
Unless the Big Bang occured, why are we here? The atheists don't have a replacement theory based on REAL evidence.

What you are pondering is first cause. There are no competing theories for first cause, just guesses.

A4C · Jul 4, 2005

Praxiteles said:
Really? How do you get that?

So you are saying tht something as simple as a dishwasher needs somebody to design it but the complex human being (and every other life form) just got here by chance?
I say a designer was required for both

nvxplorer · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
That's interesting. Why do we find dinosaur pictures on pottery unless we saw them?

There's no limit to your dishonesty.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
Aren't you ASSUMING dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago"?

I don't think anyone has to assume anything at this point. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/fosrec/McKinney.html

Praxiteles · Jul 4, 2005

A4C said:
So you are saying tht something as simple as a dishwasher needs somebody to design it but the complex human being (and every other life form) just got here by chance?

Nope.

I say a designer was required for both

I agree - both require a design. One is designed by human beings, the other designed by natural processes.

Evolution is not chance.

Furthermore, living entities have an important quality that dishwashers do not possess - they reproduce. It's rather an important distinction.

nvxplorer · Jul 4, 2005

A4C said:
So you are saying tht something as simple as a dishwasher needs somebody to design it but the complex human being (and every other life form) just got here by chance?
I say a designer was required for both

You are correct! I was designed by my mother and father.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
That's interesting. Why do we find dinosaur pictures on pottery unless we saw them?

I apologize as I can not find the link, but I have seen someone on this very forum refute that. The pottery turned out to be forgeries made by natives from images they saw in comic books. Maybe someone can help me out with a reference. Ill keep looking and add it as an edit later.

EDIT: [url="http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10663018&postcount=5 (thanks"]http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10663018&postcount=5 (thanks[/url] prax)

Spaceman_Spiff · Jul 4, 2005

GodsSamus said:
That's interesting. Why do we find dinosaur pictures on pottery unless we saw them?

Same reason we find half animal half human pictures in egyptian pictigraphs or pegasus on Greecian urns or vampires in most cultures in this world. Humans have incredible imaginations and when it gets dark outside we see what scares us.

A4C · Jul 4, 2005

nvxplorer said:
You are correct! I was designed by my mother and father.

Well if I pursue this I can see we will eventually get back to monkeys.
So I think I will dop it right here

pantsman52 · Jul 4, 2005

A4C said:
Well if I pursue this I can see we will eventually get back to monkeys.
So I think I will dop it right here

Yes, because we all know how well you do in such a debate.

Praxiteles · Jul 4, 2005

AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
I apologize as I can not find the link, but I have seen someone on this very forum refute that. The pottery turned out to be forgeries made by natives from images they saw in comic books. Maybe someone can help me out with a reference. Ill keep looking and add it as an edit later.

Ica stones

I think Talk Origins has a piece on them as well, although some people seem to be allergic to that website.

A4C · Jul 4, 2005

AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
I apologize as I can not find the link, but I have seen someone on this very forum refute that. The pottery turned out to be forgeries made by natives from images they saw in comic books. Maybe someone can help me out with a reference. Ill keep looking and add it as an edit later.

This is called a Claytons refute - The type of refute you have when you are not having a refute

In A Perfect World · Jul 4, 2005

wisdomseeker said:
Bibically if the world is six thousand years old than that would make dinosaurs being in existence before the world was created. How can this be?

It can't. Simply: the Bible was written by men who knew no dinosaurs and possibly only knew their lineage up to a certain point that was documented (or perhaps improvised a little).

In A Perfect World · Jul 4, 2005

A4C said:
Well if I pursue this I can see we will eventually get back to monkeys.
So I think I will dop it right here

For the last time, Evolution doesn't say we came from monkeys.

How old is the world?

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