How old is the Earth?

branchofthevine · Jan 27, 2013

I am no scientist, so I cannot provide any details in that regard, but there is a text in Exodus echoed elsewhere which says "the Lord, the Lord God [...] keeping mercy for thousands.... (Exodus 34:7). I should say that this something I learned from one of my professors who is fluent in Hebrew and wrote his doctorate in Hebrew but no one was smart enough in North America to mark it, so it was sent to Israel, anyways he was saying in our Pentateuch class that the phrase "for thousands" is to be understood as thousands of generations, being in contrast to the "third and fourth generations" in the same verse.

This passage is also God's self revelation, basically God is saying this about Himself. He says He keeps mercy for thousands of generations which would be at least 30,000 years.

So for me personally I won't believe that the earth is any less than 30,000 thousand years old.

yeshuasavedme · Jan 27, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
The Genesis account says that there was water, in the beginning, and it’s something that I have thought about in the past, that everything was formed out of water; that’s the conclusion I think you’d come to, with a literal reading of Genesis, it’s just one idea. I don’t think the water would need to collapse, but the creation was miraculous.
I think that creationists should read the works of Robert Sungenis, who has written about geocentrism; until they go back to a biblical model of the universe, then they can be accused of compromise, because the bible is actually very geocentric throughout. I think that the evidence is conclusive that the earth is young, which means that the universe must also be young, but how that can be is as yet unknown.
Creationists might as well go back to geocentrism, as nobody takes any notice of their other claims about a young earth and universe.

Agreed.
Just to take the Bible at face value is more scientific than to take the words of men whose words are always changing.

My eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit to understand that the creation is supernatural, and is upheld supernaturally; and men who deny it or want to bypass the supernatural aspect of the creation will always be learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

On starlight: the Genesis record is clear. The light started right here on this earth, on day 2, and was stretched out with the heavens, from the earth, between the divided waters, on day 2.
That leaves no room for any question of "how did starlight get here", because the light started right here, on day 2, in this "electric universe".

There are many people who do research on the electric universe theory, and they are not Believers, do not know the creation is young, and do not know the earth is fixed in place, but they are onto the fact that we live in an electric universe.

Electric Universe theory

elopez · Jan 27, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
However, when it comes to the age of the earth, there is a lot of evidence that the earth is young, and so is our solar system. The moon is moving away from the earth, as just one example. I believe there was a global flood, about 4000 years ago, again from examining the evidence. I think the bible is reliable as history, as far as how/where humans originated.

The moon is moving, very slowly mind you, away from earth, yet that hardly is evidence of a young earth/solar system. In fact, it is only evidence in favor of an old earth with a date of about 4.5 billion years.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
Although creationists identify that this was not the product of evolution, they seem to forget that they claim that there was no death, before the fall. But there must have been. It was part of creation from the beginning.

Here is an inconsistency I noticed in your view. You say you've concluded that evolution is not true, yet you reject something that YEC adamantly advocates -- no death prior to the Fall. Accepting that death must have taken place before the Fall only squares with a theistic evolutionist view point.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
Where does it say in the bible that there was no death before the fall? It says that Adam and Eve would die, if they ate the forbidden fruit. I suppose thats possible, but what about the inevitable overpopulation, if everyone lived forever? Doesnt make any sense, if you take it literally. I dont know what the answer is.

The Bible mentions there was no death or sin before the Fall, but that is only in reference to humans as plants nor animals can sin. There are many problems when reading Genesis literally. This is just one of them.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
How old is the earth?

As mentioned before, about 4.5 billion years.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
The radiometric dating that they use is proved to be unreliable. The old earthers are relying on this data, and seem to ignore the various proofs that the earth is young, but how could the earth be young, if the universe is old?

Can you specify an example of when radiometric dating has been shown to be unreliable? Also, there are not various proofs to point to a young earth, especially given as you have already said here, that the universe is 13 billion years old. The earth cannot be young given that fact.

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
A lot of people seem to be convinced that the universe started in the big bang. I dont believe in a creation, without God, that is absurd. But maybe the universe was created ex nihilo, from some particular point in space. Although I have read a lot of good evidence that the earth is the centre of the universe yes, the geocentric model of the universe is still not disproved.

The Big Bang does not have to preclude the idea of God. Most Christians accept a creation ex nihilo as opposed to other other theories like ex materia and ex deo. And most assuredly the earth is not the center of the universe. Such a simple tool as the telescope sufficiently proves the geocentric theory false.

yeshuasavedme · Jan 27, 2013

branchofthevine said:
I am no scientist, so I cannot provide any details in that regard, but there is a text in Exodus echoed elsewhere which says "the Lord, the Lord God [...] keeping mercy for thousands.... (Exodus 34:7). I should say that this something I learned from one of my professors who is fluent in Hebrew and wrote his doctorate in Hebrew but no one was smart enough in North America to mark it, so it was sent to Israel, anyways he was saying in our Pentateuch class that the phrase "for thousands" is to be understood as thousands of generations, being in contrast to the "third and fourth generations" in the same verse.

This passage is also God's self revelation, basically God is saying this about Himself. He says He keeps mercy for thousands of generations which would be at least 30,000 years.

So for me personally I won't believe that the earth is any less than 30,000 thousand years old.

,
No, it isn't past. It is future, from the time He gave the Covenant to Israel.
The passages declare a future of at least 400,000 years for this creation, allowing only 40 years pr generation; but in the millennial reign, a generation is one thousand years, and so, forever, earthlings will live a thousand year "Day", and then be changed and glorified, as Adam was intended to do, but fell from, and then: "plant the heavens", as we were formed to do, in Adam, fell from, and will be raised to do [who are born again, into the New Man name -and that name is "Israel"]:
Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people

But this present creation will undergo an elemental dissolving and reforming, instantly, [like a worm to a butterfly does, slower, in the pupa], at the end of the thousand year Sabbath of it, which is what happens at the rapture to the living saints, and to the dead saints bodies that are long turned to the dust, or lie in graves and tombs, awaiting the resurrection of them and the joining of them together again, with the souls of them.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16 [Even of the covenant] which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant,
1Ch 16:18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;

Psa 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psa 105:9 Which [covenant] he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
Psa 105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant:
Psa 105:11 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance:

Vanguard PCD · Jan 27, 2013

I don't have time to go into it right now, but I'll re-visit this thread tomorrow and explain the true origins of "light" according to the Classical Hebrew and its translation into English.

yeshuasavedme · Jan 27, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
,
No, it isn't past. It is future, from the time He gave the Covenant to Israel.
The passages declare a future of at least 400,000 years for this creation, allowing only 40 years pr generation; but in the millennial reign, a generation is one thousand years, and so, forever, earthlings will live a thousand year "Day", and then be changed and glorified, as Adam was intended to do, but fell from, and then: "plant the heavens", as we were formed to do, in Adam, fell from, and will be raised to do [who are born again, into the New Man name -and that name is "Israel"]:
Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people

But this present creation will undergo an elemental dissolving and reforming, instantly, [like a worm to a butterfly does, slower, in the pupa], at the end of the thousand year Sabbath of it, which is what happens at the rapture to the living saints, and to the dead saints bodies that are long turned to the dust, or lie in graves and tombs, awaiting the resurrection of them and the joining of them together again, with the souls of them.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16 [Even of the covenant] which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant,
1Ch 16:18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;

Psa 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psa 105:9 Which [covenant] he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
Psa 105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant:
Psa 105:11 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance:

So the future of this earth, after its regeneration, is promised for a million years, giving a 1,000 year "Day" pr generation, before their translation to Glory.

Creation is looking forward to an unending future, but back to a recent -so to speak- dated, beginning -according to the Word of God.

yeshuasavedme · Jan 27, 2013

elopez said:
The moon is moving, very slowly mind you, away from earth,

Just stick around long enough...it'll be back to its starting point.
God ordained the paths of the sun and moon, and Enoch the prophet saw their paths and wrote them. He also reported that the sun and moon keep fatih with one another [electromagnetic connection] forever.

elopez said:
The Bible mentions there was no death or sin before the Fall, but that is only in reference to humans as plants nor animals can sin. There are many problems when reading Genesis literally. This is just one of them.

The problem you are having is reading Genesis with the bias of wrong teaching from men who have no understanding.
Death is corruption, Destruction, named Abaddon, and separation from God in spirit is the first death.
The fall of Adam brought the bondage of sin and Death to this entire creation, and Adam died in spirit immediately, and lost the glory covering and got cast down to earth, to be, in his flesh, "food" for Death/Corruption; and in his fallen spirit, "food" for tormenting satans and demons.
All his dominion became subject to being "food" for Death/Corruption/Abaddon and his minions, to feed upon.

Corruption of the flesh in the millennial reign will not happen, Death will not have dominion over the creation, and yet, animals will be killed, and eaten, and even sacrificed in the Temple in Jerusalem, but they will never have Corruption/Destruction/Death eating their flesh.

Fascinated With God · Jan 28, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
On starlight: the Genesis record is clear. The light started right here on this earth, on day 2, and was stretched out with the heavens, from the earth, between the divided waters, on day 2.
That leaves no room for any question of "how did starlight get here", because the light started right here, on day 2, in this "electric universe".

If the light originated from Earth then how could we see it now? It would be travelling away from us such that we would no longer be able to see it.

yeshuasavedme said:
There are many people who do research on the electric universe theory, and they are not Believers, do not know the creation is young, and do not know the earth is fixed in place, but they are onto the fact that we live in an electric universe.

The Earth is fixed in place? Do you believe the Earth is flat too?

yeshuasavedme · Jan 28, 2013

Fascinated With God said:
If the light originated from Earth then how could we see it now? It would be travelling away from us such that we would no longer be able to see it.

The Earth is fixed in place? Do you believe the Earth is flat too?

If the heavens were stretched out from the earth, and they were, as numerous Bible passages specifically state, on day 2 of creation week; and the Light was brought into being on day 1, and it was; then why do you think the light has to travel back to the earth?

That is faulty reasoning based on unbelief of the simple statement that the heavens were stretched out from the earth and that the light was brought into being before they were stretched out.

As to your other statement, I think it is a statement which only someone can make who does not study the Word of God, which Word in every aspect teaches us that the world is a globe, right from Genesis 1.
The Hebrew word "Tebel" which is translated to "world", translates to, and means, "globe"; and the root etymons "B-L" mean "a swelling", and we get other words out of those root etymons, like bell, ball, bulbous, balloon, and so on.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

elopez said:
The moon is moving, very slowly mind you, away from earth, yet that hardly is evidence of a young earth/solar system. In fact, it is only evidence in favour of an old earth with a date of about 4.5 billion years.

I have listened to lectures on TV given by Dr Grady Mc Murtry. He says that if you projected it back according to the old earth timescale, the moon would be skimming over the surface of the earth.

Here is an inconsistency I noticed in your view. You say you've concluded that evolution is not true, yet you reject something that YEC adamantly advocates -- no death prior to the Fall. Accepting that death must have taken place before the Fall only squares with a theistic evolutionist view point.

I know the YECs say that there is no death before the fall, but there very probably was, in my opinion. I dont have to agree with everything that they say. I am trying to get to the truth, rather than accepting any church dogma. I am not sure about the fall; I dont know what happened, and it might be a figurative story, to demonstrate that the world is fallen, and might have originated in another culture; Sumerian perhaps, as it seems like a primitive sort of myth; a snake tempting Eve etc. We live in a fallen world, for sure, but I dont know why. These bats and spiders and other predators could have been created that way from the beginning.

Can you specify an example of when radiometric dating has been shown to be unreliable? Also, there are not various proofs to point to a young earth, especially given as you have already said here, that the universe is 13 billion years old. The earth cannot be young given that fact.

I dont know how old the universe is. I posted 101 reasons for a young earth previously, taken from a creationist website. I have listened to lectures by Walter Vieth, from the SDA church, and I come away completely convinced that there was a global flood, according to biblical time. I am no expert, and wouldnt attempt to refute anyone saying that the dates are reliable for radiometric dating; I have heard other people with the needed PhDs etc. who seem to be qualified when they say that the dating is unreliable. But the radiometric dating is only one of many evidences for or not a young earth. On the secular websites, they only state this radiometric dating as proof for an old earth, and they say nothing about all the other evidences for a young earth.

The Big Bang does not have to preclude the idea of God. Most Christians accept a creation ex nihilo as opposed to other theories like ex materia and ex deo. And most assuredly the earth is not the centre of the universe. Such a simple tool as the telescope sufficiently proves the geocentric theory false.

I dont believe in the big bang theory. The heliocentric model of the universe was never proved in any way, against the geocentric model, it was just assumed by the northern protestant culture, and has remained unchallenged, until recently. I have read the book by Robert Sungenis, (a PhD in physics) it is a little known book, and a little studied subject. Most people dismiss geocentrism because it is part of our culture, and they have never looked into the matter. I dont believe that the bible is the infallible word of God. But I think that the first creation account might be inspired. Its an important enough matter to have God step in and tell us something about creation; one of the very rare incursions of God into our world perhaps.

Aman777 · Jan 28, 2013

his:>>It seems to be rather confrontational between creationists and mainstream science. I think that is perhaps not going to resolve anything, at least regarding astronomy and the age of the universe. Perhaps creationists need to investigate if there is a reason why so many scientists have reached the conclusions about this subject.

What do you think?

Dear his, The first heaven was made the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8 Our second heaven, or the beginning of our world, was made on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4, the SAME Day the first Earth was made.

Scripture agrees with Science and tells us that our world was made at the beginning of the 3rd Day. God's Truth must agree with every other discovered Truth or it is not God's Truth.

In Love,
Aman

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
There are many people who do research on the electric universe theory, and they are not Believers, do not know the creation is young, and do not know the earth is fixed in place, but they are onto the fact that we live in an electric universe.

I dont know about an electric universe, but you are the first person on these forums who is open to the idea of a geocentric universe. I recommend 'Galileo was Wrong, the Church was Right' by Robert Sungenis. It is a Catholic apologetics book, because the protestants caved in to heliocentrism ages ago, without giving the matter any consideration, and they will get
nowhere, unless they go back to biblical geocentrism, in my humble opinion. Or forget the whole thing and accept evolution, like my church has done; it just shows that some people need to grow a spine. They think that the church might seem anti-science, and many young people leave the church because of that reason. But then a church is never going to be perfect. My views on the bible wouldn't go down well, with any church, so i keep quiet about it.

Fascinated With God · Jan 28, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
elopez said:

The heliocentric model of the universe was never proved in any way, against the geocentric model, it was just assumed by the northern protestant culture, and has remained unchallenged, until recently.

Click to expand...

Challenged by whom? This is on the same level as a belief in a flat Earth.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

Fascinated With God said:
hiscosmicgoldfish said:

Challenged by whom? This is on the same level as a belief in a flat Earth.

Click to expand...

Challenged by Robert Sungenis. It's not the same as flat earthism. The bible is geocentric. Only some books in the bibe are flat earthist; like Revelation (which i reject as scripture). But i don't want to focus on geocentrism v heliocentrism as that is another topic, although it is related to this topic.

yeshuasavedme · Jan 28, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
I dont know about an electric universe, but you are the first person on these forums who is open to the idea of a geocentric universe. I recommend 'Galileo was Wrong, the Church was Right' by Robert Sungenis. It is a Catholic apologetics book, because the protestants caved in to heliocentrism ages ago, without giving the matter any consideration, and they will get
nowhere, unless they go back to biblical geocentrism, in my humble opinion. Or forget the whole thing and accept evolution, like my church has done; it just shows that some people need to grow a spine. They think that the church might seem anti-science, and many young people leave the church because of that reason. But then a church is never going to be perfect. My views on the bible wouldn't go down well, with any church, so i keep quiet about it.

I own Robert Sungenis' book, on DVD. I wish I could get a printed version, it would be so neat to have.
The Universe is electric from the beginning, when God said "Let there be Light".

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

Aman777 said:
his:>>It seems to be rather confrontational between creationists and mainstream science. I think that is perhaps not going to resolve anything, at least regarding astronomy and the age of the universe. Perhaps creationists need to investigate if there is a reason why so many scientists have reached the conclusions about this subject.

What do you think?

Dear his, The first heaven was made the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8 Our second heaven, or the beginning of our world, was made on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4, the SAME Day the first Earth was made.

Scripture agrees with Science and tells us that our world was made at the beginning of the 3rd Day. God's Truth must agree with every other discovered Truth or it is not God's Truth.

In Love,
Aman

I don't understand this theory.

Fascinated With God · Jan 28, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
Fascinated With God said:

Challenged by Robert Sungenis. It's not the same as flat earthism. The bible is geocentric. Only some books in the bibe are flat earthist; like Revelation (which i reject as scripture). But i don't want to focus on geocentrism v heliocentrism as that is another topic, although it is related to this topic.

Click to expand...

I have never heard of this extremely eccentric conspiracy theory. How can anyone believe that the sun orbits the earth?

yeshuasavedme · Jan 28, 2013

hiscosmicgoldfish said:
Fascinated With God said:

Challenged by Robert Sungenis. It's not the same as flat earthism. The bible is geocentric. Only some books in the bibe are flat earthist; like Revelation (which i reject as scripture). But i don't want to focus on geocentrism v heliocentrism as that is another topic, although it is related to this topic.

Click to expand...

Revelation doesn't teach a flat earth.
No Scripture anywhere teaches a flat earth, for the very word, "World" means "globe.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
I own Robert Sungenis' book, on DVD. I wish I could get a printed version, it would be so neat to have.
The Universe is electric from the beginning, when God said "Let there be Light".

you can order the book from the Catholic apologetics society; I have a copy.

hiscosmicgoldfish · Jan 28, 2013

Fascinated With God said:
hiscosmicgoldfish said:

I have never heard of this extremely eccentric conspiracy theory. How can anyone believe that the sun orbits the earth?

Click to expand...

not just the sun, but the entire universe rotates around an axis centred on the earth. it is a very interesting subject, once you get into it; but people will call you a madman if you mention it.

How old is the Earth?

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Progressive Christian Deist

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Traditional Apostolic Methodist

Senior Veteran

Liberal Anglican

Christian

Liberal Anglican

Traditional Apostolic Methodist

Liberal Anglican

Senior Veteran

Liberal Anglican

Traditional Apostolic Methodist

Senior Veteran

Liberal Anglican

Liberal Anglican

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency