How necessary is church?

fieldmouse3 · Aug 25, 2004

I know the Bible says we shouldn't give up meeting together to worship God, but does it have to be in an actual church setting? What if you were to meet in a small group setting with other Christian friends to pray, do Bible study, and talk about life with God? Would that fulfill the requirements? I'm interested in people's thoughts.

EmSchmem · Aug 25, 2004

Well first of all I am concerned about your use of the word "requirements." Are you only looking to fulfill requirements? Also, what is your reasoning for not going to church? IF there isn't really anything available then I wouldn't see a problem. If you simply don't like gonig, I would look at your heart attitude. As far as what you would like to do, with your friends, that is great, but don't forget we have many more callings and when our only fellowship is with smal groups of Christian people who are already our friends, our personal growth can easily stagnate. We need the non- believers and other Christians in our lives. It the concept of iron sharpening iron. We need to get in with people and love them even if we don't really want to or don't really like them. This can be difficult in a group that is small and only friends.

CeCe · Aug 25, 2004

Wow. This is speaking to me right where I am at the moment. No church--but unlike you, no Christian friends that I'm able to interact with other than via internet. The Bible does say "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together"...."exhorting one another"

If the Bible says we are required to be in a building labeled "church" I'm not aware of it. And I've looked. Just personally, I think it's very important for Christians to fellowship with each other to encourage and pray for each other. I think the ideal would be to be in a church. But is it a requirement? I'm not seeing that in the Bible myself.

But I believe,...and someone correct me if this is wrong. But in the early days of the church isn't this exactly what they did? Meeting together in each others homes?

CeCe · Aug 25, 2004

Good point, EmSchmem.

MsAnne · Aug 25, 2004

It's not just the gathering of believers that is important.
There is the act of being fed by a man (person) of God.
There are also accountability issues - being under the authority of a pastor that God has placed over you. There's so much to being involved in a church. Although I am absolutely an advocate of small group Bible studies, etc., I don't see how they could ever replace the church setting.

fieldmouse3 · Aug 25, 2004

I actually wasn't writing about myself...I'm just asking in general. I DO happen to have a church, even though I'm thinking God wants me at a new one.

CeCe · Aug 25, 2004

Still prayin for ya

fieldmouse3 · Aug 25, 2004

Thanks, I could use it!

Immanuel · Aug 25, 2004

fieldmouse3 said:
I know the Bible says we shouldn't give up meeting together to worship God, but does it have to be in an actual church setting? What if you were to meet in a small group setting with other Christian friends to pray, do Bible study, and talk about life with God? Would that fulfill the requirements? I'm interested in people's thoughts.

One question, is it important to have a family? Because the church is your spiritual family.

Are we required to be in church? ummm. Let me see. Are we required to be in a family? I guess not. But there are the consequences of leaving your family especially if you are a spiritual baby. I mean if a child goes out of the family, who would care for it. Surely, it would not survive.

But if you are saying that you would like to meet with people from your church outside of the church building, then I think that's a great idea. But remember, faith is not a ritual or requirement thing. It's trust, communication, and submission in obedience to our Lord who has given himself to us.

I wish I can understand in more specifics of your questions/thought for me to better answer you.

fieldmouse3 · Aug 25, 2004

Immanuel said:
One question, is it important to have a family? Because the church is your spiritual family.

Are we required to be in church? ummm. Let me see. Are we required to be in a family? I guess not. But there are the consequences of leaving your family especially if you are a spiritual baby. I mean if a child goes out of the family, who would care for it. Surely, it would not survive.

But if you are saying that you would like to meet with people from your church outside of the church building, then I think that's a great idea. But remember, faith is not a ritual or requirement thing. It's trust, communication, and submission in obedience to our Lord who has given himself to us.

I wish I can understand in more specifics of your questions/thought for me to better answer you.

Once again, I am NOT asking for myself....I was just curious as to whether people thought group worship needed to take place in an actual church or not. I thought I'd made that clear, but I guess I didn't.

Endure2 · Aug 25, 2004

the bible says in the book of hebrews, i think its chapter 11.

1. to be in submission to those in authority over us, becuase they are the SHEPERDS OF OUR SOULS.
the bible makes it very clear that their is rank in the church, God all sees us as equal family members, but there is rank. and this is a spiritual authority, becuase they sheperd our souls not our bodies.

2. the bible says we are commit to the fellowship of the body of Christ like others have mentioned.

3. the bible says timothy received his gifts from God, when paul his spiritual father laid hands on him. that only goes to show the power and need of a relationship with a pastor in your life. so they can bless you and unlock the gifts in you, thats how it works in the kingdom of God.

4. the bible says how can you serve a God you cant see if you cant serve a man you can see? the bible also says that before you are sent into your own ministry you have to go through a season of showing yourself faithful.
so again, it shows the need of being commited to a pastor and serving under his vision and ministry untill God sees your faithfulness before he sends you on your own ministry or calling.

all these things go to show the power and need of being commited to a pastor and the people of God.

if anyone can show me how to do all those things without being a commited member of a congregation, ill be very suprised. i can think of no other way.

but it goes without saying, i know id be dead on the wayside of life if it had not been for a men that i can name that i could not have met or stayed close to without a church.
there were SO, SO MANY TIMES...many many times, that the only reason im still living for God today was becuase i made it back to the house of the Lord.
i was messed up in sin and bondage, but becuase i spiritually limped back through the doors of my church, im still here today.
my God... the only reason im sitting here, talking about God today, is becuase i have a church that i attend every week and becuase i do there are people i can go to and talk to 24 hours a day.

calvin, troy, oscar, john, javon, and most of all my pastor Jentzen Franklin who unlocked the gifts inside me and blessed my life. without those men, i wouldnt be here today. and the church is the only reason they are what they are in my life.

" I WAS GLAD WHEN THEY SAID UNTO ME, LET US GO UNTO THE HOUSE OF THE LORD! "
King David.

Godbless you,
Lee.

Immanuel · Aug 25, 2004

Endure2 said:
the bible says in the book of hebrews, i think its chapter 11.

1. to be in submission to those in authority over us, becuase they are the SHEPERDS OF OUR SOULS.
the bible makes it very clear that their is rank in the church, God all sees us as equal family members, but there is rank. and this is a spiritual authority, becuase they sheperd our souls not our bodies.

2. the bible says we are commit to the fellowship of the body of Christ like others have mentioned.

3. the bible says timothy received his gifts from God, when paul his spiritual father laid hands on him. that only goes to show the power and need of a relationship with a pastor in your life. so they can bless you and unlock the gifts in you, thats how it works in the kingdom of God.

4. the bible says how can you serve a God you cant see if you cant serve a man you can see? the bible also says that before you are sent into your own ministry you have to go through a season of showing yourself faithful.
so again, it shows the need of being commited to a pastor and serving under his vision and ministry untill God sees your faithfulness before he sends you on your own ministry or calling.

all these things go to show the power and need of being commited to a pastor and the people of God.

if anyone can show me how to do all those things without being a commited member of a congregation, ill be very suprised. i can think of no other way.

but it goes without saying, i know id be dead on the wayside of life if it had not been for a men that i can name that i could not have met or stayed close to without a church.
there were SO, SO MANY TIMES...many many times, that the only reason im still living for God today was becuase i made it back to the house of the Lord.
i was messed up in sin and bondage, but becuase i spiritually limped back through the doors of my church, im still here today.
my God... the only reason im sitting here, talking about God today, is becuase i have a church that i attend every week and becuase i do there are people i can go to and talk to 24 hours a day.

calvin, troy, oscar, john, javon, and most of all my pastor Jentzen Franklin who unlocked the gifts inside me and blessed my life. without those men, i wouldnt be here today. and the church is the only reason they are what they are in my life.

" I WAS GLAD WHEN THEY SAID UNTO ME, LET US GO UNTO THE HOUSE OF THE LORD! "
King David.

Godbless you,
Lee.

I would have to so soooo totally agree with Endure. There's really no other way to put it. I LOVE THE BODY OF CHRIST. Apart from the church, I don't see how any ministry can function. God gave us the body to work as a team for his glory and for his kingdom. There is just no way anyone could function apart from it, but I guess our answers geared away from what fieldmouse asked (my apologies). So I guess when you ask:

fieldmouse3 said:
whether people thought group worship needed to take place in an actual church or not.

My answer would have to be yes if you are referring to the church as the people. However if youre referring to the church as the building, then my answer would have to be no, worship can be taken anywhere as a group. Actually, I want to do worship at the park with a bunch of people.

Count · Oct 23, 2004

fieldmouse3 said:
I know the Bible says we shouldn't give up meeting together to worship God, but does it have to be in an actual church setting? What if you were to meet in a small group setting with other Christian friends to pray, do Bible study, and talk about life with God? Would that fulfill the requirements? I'm interested in people's thoughts.

Let me answer by quoting something that I read lately:

The first meaning of the original word is a building. "I will build my church." "Every house is builded by someone; but he that built all things is God" (Heb. 3:4). The house is a building. This building is that which corresponds to Christ Himself. He said, as He looked at the House, the stone house, the great temporal building, and immediately transferred its spiritual significance to Himself, to His own body - "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). "I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." All the destructive arts of hell will not be able to prevail against that which He builds, His building: a building, not now of stone, but of living stones. That is Peter's word about this house - "Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house."

This house, which "house are we," has as its governing object and vocation the making of God Himself present and available to men. That is the first idea. The building is for a habitation of God, "a habitation of God in the Spirit" a habitation of GOD, in the person of the Holy Spirit, so that God becomes present and available. That is a statement. It could remain just a statement of truth, but things ought not to remain merely as such. It is the setting forth of a test, the test as to whether the house of God exists, and the test as to the existence of the house of God, or of living stones comprising the house of God, is first of all whether God is present or not. Is God known to be there? That is the test of everything so far as the house is concerned, for that is its vocation. It has no meaning apart from that.

In the Old Testament there was a time when the glory went up from the sanctuary: it went up from the place where God had been; and, although the thing continued, the fabric went on, it was a shell - it had no significance, no value, no meaning at all, or, if it had any meaning, it had the meaning of tragedy. The glory had gone up, removed; God was no longer to be found there. So, quite simply, the test of the existence of the house of God and of living stones is just that. Is the Lord found in us, and is the Lord found in the midst of us? If He is, that just satisfies all His requirements. He does not want the elaborate and the ornate structure. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matt. 18:20). That is the house of God. The house of God is determined, not by a name, a title, a designation, a place, a thing. It is determined by the presence of the Lord, and anywhere, amongst any two or three, no matter where that may be or who they may be, if God is found there, that is the house of God, and that is all God wants.

The trouble with people is that they must have something over and around it, a building to meet in and call the "church." How often the glory has departed immediately something like that has happened; something has gone. Begin to arrange this thing, begin to set up an order of things, and where has the Lord gone? That is what you come to so often. The Lord simply says, Give Me living stones together, and that is all I want. Do not try to improve on that. You can gather more living stones: that is the way but that is all I want - living stones together in an inward "togetherness"; firstly because it is union with Christ, Christ united, Christ in His oneness. The Lord says, Give Me that, and I will make My presence very real.

And then of course the object is not that that should exist merely as something enjoying the Lord's presence. So often that is where a mistake is made. "Yes, we are having a lovely time with the Lord, we few, this little group, we are having a lovely time with the Lord" - and you think that you can perpetuate that indefinitely. You cannot. It is not only for the presence of the Lord: it is to make the Lord available to others, that they may know where to find the Lord - nay more, that they shall know that the Lord CAN BE FOUND. It is to provide the answer to their question, "Will God indeed dwell with men?" Yes, here He is. The presence of the Lord is the answer to men's hearts, to men's quests, and that is enough. When the Holy Spirit came to the Church on the day of Pentecost, "the multitude came together," and that is what happened - God was made available. What is needed is a few living stones, not to discuss doctrine, theology, the technicalities of Church order or anything like that, but to speak of the Lord, to be occupied with the Lord. If the Lord is not enough to occupy us for all our days here, there is something wrong with us. If you peter out - with apologies to Peter! - when you begin to talk about the Lord, and then have to fill up the conversation with all sorts of other things, there is something seriously wrong.

God's eternal desire has been to have a dwelling and to dwell with men. So the Bible reveals. A marvelous thing! It was the thing which astounded Solomon. "Will God in very deed dwell on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee" (1 Kings 8:27) - "and yet He has commanded me to build Him a house!" God wanting to dwell with men. That is the very first thing about a house - that it should be a place of RESIDENCE. Union with Christ, you see, means bringing God in: for where Christ is corporately expressed and personally present, there God comes in. Do remember that. If you want to know God's presence, be occupied with His Son, for, as we said in an earlier meditation, God's appointments are with His Son.

StAnselm · Oct 23, 2004

Now that this thread has been resurrected...

CeCe said:
But I believe,...and someone correct me if this is wrong. But in the early days of the church isn't this exactly what they did? Meeting together in each others homes?

Yes, that's true. The whole 'church building thing can be a bit of a red herring. You see, a lot of small house churches lack some of the characteristics of church that are laid out in the NT - like leadership, sacraments, that sort of thing.

I would venture to suggest that (A) every Christian needs to belong to a church; and (B) if your small group doesn't celbrate communion, then it's not really a church.

But I'd be open to arguments to the contrary...

Count · Oct 23, 2004

StAnselm said:
if your small group doesn't celbrate communion, then it's not really a church.

I would answer again with a part of my quotation:

What is needed is a few living stones, not to discuss doctrine, theology, the technicalities of Church order or anything like that, but to speak of the Lord, to be occupied with the Lord. If the Lord is not enough to occupy us for all our days here, there is something wrong with us.

Click to expand...

It is more than clear. If the Lord is not enough for us, if we need something more than the Lord, we are not on the right track.

maholicke424 · Oct 27, 2004

I feel bad that you have to defend yourself. People shouldn't be making you feel like that. I would never want to write in and have people attack me so that I have to make sure they know I am talking about someone else. I know exaclty what you are asking about, because I have asked the same question. Instead of people helping, they attacked me and my reasons or word choices rather then just helped me. I am ashamed that people would do that and want you to know that you are in my prayers and who you are asking this question for finds the right answer. I to though have a church and think that maybe God doesn't want me at that particular one and have been searching. The best of luck to your freind. God Bless.

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