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jiminpa said:The thread was just bait. She wanted to bait those of us who don't believe OSAS into admitting that you can't sin your way out of salvation, thinking that that destroys our argument. No problem. I admit it. You can't sin away your salvation! Duh. That's not how it happens. This thread is a the same strawman that Calvinists always use to try to prove their shaky position. They claim that if you can "lose" your salvation, then it must be by commiting too many sins.
There is no true answer to this thread, since the question was flawed to begin with.
Good thing we can disagree without losing our love for one another.
1 Cor 5:11-12 said:But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
Hisgirl said:Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christina M said:Many claim to be a brother (saved) and are not. Yet many here seem to think that just because someone once said a sinner's prayer they are saved.
Paladin21 said:Wow thats pretty clean cut, I still find it hard to think that you can debate the issue since verse #1 says "I will not Blot his name out of the book" meaning he has the power to. #2 says if we save a BROTHER from sin we save his SOUL from death. #3 says if we take part in the heavenly gift (being saved) if they fall away (which its saying they can) they cannot come back. #4 It says palinly that not everyone who just says "Lord lord" (to me a direct example of sinners prayer) will make it to heaven if they DID NOT DO THE WILL OF GOD.
Your question proves you never understood (or bothered to understand) the OSNAS view.Godzchild said:Just want to know, from all those folk who believe that committing sin can make you lose your salvation, exactly how much sin does one need to commit to be able to undo the work of God?
Is there an amount?
Oscarr said:I have decided to put my oar in here. For a start, there is quite a process to go through to obtain salvation and get the assurance of it. Firstly, you have to see that you are a sinner, a complete sinner, a wretched sinner worthy only of condemnation; and rightly so. Before we can get past first base, we have to have a very clear appreciation of the fact that we are sinners who justly deserve eternal hell. Too many people walk up an accept Christ without going through that process, and it is no surprise that they last only a short while before they either fall back into their sinful life or continue a false Christian life full of pride and self righteousness.
The Gospel only becomes good news to those who are fully convinced of their wretched sinful state and also convinced that in no way will they ever be able to live a sinless live, acceptable to God.
Then, the next step is to stand before the cross of Christ and fully appreciate what He did for us there. He died to make us fully justified and acceptable to God. We need to accept Jesus into our lives on that basis.
Then we need to seek the Lord for the assurance that we are fully saved, and that our step of faith in believing that Jesus died for us on the cross, and our acceptance of Him into our lives has justified us before God. We need the Holy Spirit to put that witness into our hearts. It might not come automatically. According to many examples of godly men and women through the ages, it seems that it has to be sought for over a length of time and with all your heart.
It took John Bunyan eight years of struggling before he got that assurance from the Holy Spirit. That is a big difference between the easy believerism where someone can waltz up to the altar and mumble some prayer of committment and then believe that they are truly saved.
The trouble with many of today's Christians is that they have done just that. Gone up to the altar, probably under pressure from a group of enthusiastic people who want God to work more quickly in the person than might be appropriate, and then come away not knowing exactly what he did, other than 'getting religion' and then spending the rest of his or her life struggling along trying to be 'holy', and probably ending up in bondage to self righteousness and filthy, stinking pride, and then falling down into Hell when he or she dies - merely because they did not make sure that their salvation was sure.
The world is full of backslidden 'Christians' who have gone this way. They never waited for God to work in them to give them the assurance of their salvation, so they fell away after a time of trying because they knew that did not have what it took to live the Christian life.
It is significant that those who seek long and hard with God for the assurance of salvation, and then get it through blood, sweat and tears before God, do not usually fall away from Him afterwards, but go on a live very strong Christian lives.
So, how much sin does it take to lose your salvation. Well, if you never had salvation or the assurance of it in the first place, then it just takes the effort to walk out of the church and not go back.
But for those who have done the hard yards with God and received the assurance of salvation from the Holy Spirit, no amount of sin will cause them to lose their salvation, because they will love God so much that they will not leave any sin unconfessed and unforgiven.
Missed the point again! Darn...Life in Abundance said:i make no apology for highlighting this response again, I believe it provides the wisest and clearest understanding on a very difficut and emotive subject.
Oscarr said:...
But for those who have done the hard yards with God and received the assurance of salvation from the Holy Spirit, no amount of sin will cause them to lose their salvation, because they will love God so much that they will not leave any sin unconfessed and unforgiven.
cuz it's not about how much sin. It's about whether one can freely decide to reject Christ. But never mind.Life in Abundance said:
Paladin21........... Trish, you make a great point but you forget the selfishness of people. If you think that everyone you gets saved and feels the love of Christ will never walk away I think you have another thing coming me thinks.
Besides anybody who meets Paladin21 wiff his sword in a dark alley WILL confess Jesus is Lord whether they believe it or nawtPaladin21 said:Trish, you make a great point but you forget the selfishness of people. If you think that everyone you gets saved and feels the love of Christ will never walk away I think you have another thing coming me thinks.
Also remember how much people blame God from things and run away from him just because something bad happend and slowly fade away. I mean there are a bunch of reasons people walk away but it DOES happen.
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