How much has Adventism changed?

[ricker]

Hi!
I was raised an Adventist and went through SDA schools through 2nd year of college. After a few years of living worldly, as they say, the Lord called me back to being an active Christian in the Lutheran church.
The reason I started posting here a while back was more or less to see if things had changed in the SDA church and to settle in my own mind if my beliefs were in line with the Bible. Most of my relatives are Adventists, but none live close to me.

My question is for the so called "progressive" Adventists out there. Is it possible to be an Adventist in good standing and reject the IJ and the absurd unclean meat thing and the legalistic Sabbath keeping rules and such? Has the church backed away from the legalism and exclusivism and all that stuff I remember? I think the Sabbath is just as good a day as any to worship on, but I don't know if I could go back to some of what I seem to remember. I do feel very at home in my Lutheran denomination and am very active. It would make my parents happy if I were an Adventist though....
God bless! Ricker

Edit to add: I left the Adventist church in 1981

 

[Sophia7]

I think it really depends on which church you attend. Most of the SDA churches that I've been a member of have been pretty traditional, but I've visited some that were much more progressive. I felt very uncomfortable during our last year in the Adventist Church because I was starting to disagree with so many things, and our churches were very traditional. It wouldn't have mattered so much in some other Adventist churches that I've attended (but then there would still have been issues with my husband's job). However, I just got to the point where I disagreed with too many SDA doctrines to feel comfortable calling myself an Adventist at all.

 

[moicherie]

How Adventism has changed depends on where you are living. I live in the UK and have seen a lot of changes since the 1970's when I was a child most of these are not doctrine based but man made custom based.
Certain things that were issues in the 1970's are no longer so e.g ladies wearing hats, makeup, musical instuments, clapping in church etc (you see all man made traditions). The diet restrictions are still there but its promoted more from a health aspect in some places and not a this will get you to heaven aspect, as for legalistic rules that also depends on where you are but the attitude that one can only keep the Sabbath in a pretty building with 200 other well dressed people is fading amongst Generation X. For me the Sabbath is like a birthday, I don't go to work on my birthday and I don't go to work on the Sabbath any excuse to rest is ok my me! LOL

 

[StormyOne]

My question is for the so called "progressive" Adventists out there. Is it possible to be an Adventist in good standing and reject the IJ and the absurd unclean meat thing and the legalistic Sabbath keeping rules and such? Has the church backed away from the legalism and exclusivism and all that stuff I remember? I think the Sabbath is just as good a day as any to worship on, but I don't know if I could go back to some of what I seem to remember.

The way you phrased that I take it you don't believe a person can be progressive and seventh day adventist?

What are you defining a adventist in good standing as?

I think its possible to attend the sda church, enjoy the fellowship and not get bent too much about what is being preached from the pulpit or taught in sabbath school classes... While it is possible, I don't know alot of folks who would continually suffer like that....

I go to church a couple of times a month, I participate in sabbath school discussions....and when I opt not to attend church I REST on sabbath... and I do enjoy that rest let me tell you..... lol

 

[Sophia7]

How Adventism has changed depends on where you are living. I live in the UK and have seen a lot of changes since the 1970's when I was a child most of these are not doctrine based but man made custom based.
Certain things that were issues in the 1970's are no longer so e.g ladies wearing hats, makeup, musical instuments, clapping in church etc (you see all man made traditions). The diet restrictions are still there but its promoted more from a health aspect in some places and not a this will get you to heaven aspect, as for legalistic rules that also depends on where you are but the attitude that one can only keep the Sabbath in a pretty building with 200 other well dressed people is fading amongst Generation X. For me the Sabbath is like a birthday, I don't go to work on my birthday and I don't go to work on the Sabbath any excuse to rest is ok my me! LOL

Yes, most of the changes that I've seen over the years have been in customs and lifestyle issues.

 

[Sophia7]

The way you phrased that I take it you don't believe a person can be progressive and seventh day adventist?

What are you defining a adventist in good standing as?

I think its possible to attend the sda church, enjoy the fellowship and not get bent too much about what is being preached from the pulpit or taught in sabbath school classes... While it is possible, I don't know alot of folks who would continually suffer like that....

I go to church a couple of times a month, I participate in sabbath school discussions....and when I opt not to attend church I REST on sabbath... and I do enjoy that rest let me tell you..... lol

After we resigned from the ministry and moved to a different state, I found it very difficult to sit through the sermons in the Adventist churches that we visited. There was so much EGW-related stuff, which my husband didn't put into his sermons. I wasn't used to it anymore. And some of it wasn't even from EGW but just weird things, like one pastor who was lecturing people about chewing gum during his sermon. Maybe I have a harder time ignoring things that I don't like in sermons than some, but I didn't want to go to a church where I disagreed with most of the stuff that I heard.

 

[StormyOne]

After we resigned from the ministry and moved to a different state, I found it very difficult to sit through the sermons in the Adventist churches that we visited. There was so much EGW-related stuff, which my husband didn't put into his sermons. I wasn't used to it anymore. And some of it wasn't even from EGW but just weird things, like one pastor who was lecturing people about chewing gum during his sermon. Maybe I have a harder time ignoring things that I don't like in sermons than some, but I didn't want to go to a church where I disagreed with most of the stuff that I heard.

understood.... that's why they invented toys..... this one has gotten me through a many ummm "interesting" sermon:

between the books I have downloaded and surfing the web, as well as texting friends and family, services go by quickly....LOL

 

[Sophia7]

understood.... that's why they invented toys..... this one has gotten me through a many ummm "interesting" sermon:

between the books I have downloaded and surfing the web, as well as texting friends and family, services go by quickly....LOL

 

[StormyOne]

sometimes you have to take back your sabbath rest from those in the pulpit or up front who have no clue and are trying to disturb the peace.... lol

 

[freeindeed2]

Hi!
I was raised an Adventist and went through SDA schools through 2nd year of college. After a few years of living worldly, as they say, the Lord called me back to being an active Christian in the Lutheran church.
The reason I started posting here a while back was more or less to see if things had changed in the SDA church and to settle in my own mind if my beliefs were in line with the Bible. Most of my relatives are Adventists, but none live close to me.

My question is for the so called "progressive" Adventists out there. Is it possible to be an Adventist in good standing and reject the IJ and the absurd unclean meat thing and the legalistic Sabbath keeping rules and such? Has the church backed away from the legalism and exclusivism and all that stuff I remember? I think the Sabbath is just as good a day as any to worship on, but I don't know if I could go back to some of what I seem to remember. I do feel very at home in my Lutheran denomination and am very active. It would make my parents happy if I were an Adventist though....
God bless! Ricker

Edit to add: I left the Adventist church in 1981

I believe Adventism has changed VERY little, if at all. But significant cross-sections have changed dramatically becoming more and more grace-oriented. But it has had virtually no effect on the organization.

In CHRIST alone...

 

[freeindeed2]

After we resigned from the ministry and moved to a different state, I found it very difficult to sit through the sermons in the Adventist churches that we visited. There was so much EGW-related stuff, which my husband didn't put into his sermons. I wasn't used to it anymore. And some of it wasn't even from EGW but just weird things, like one pastor who was lecturing people about chewing gum during his sermon. Maybe I have a harder time ignoring things that I don't like in sermons than some, but I didn't want to go to a church where I disagreed with most of the stuff that I heard.

I know exactly one of the churches you refer to! I've been there 3 or 4 times myself. After the service I had to run outside tear my clothes, put sackcloth on, and put ashes on my head.

LOL!

 

[Sophia7]

I believe Adventism has changed VERY little, if at all. But significant cross-sections have changed dramatically becoming more and more grace-oriented. But it has had virtually no effect on the organization.

In CHRIST alone...

I agree that Adventism as an organization hasn't changed much at all.

 

[Sophia7]

I know exactly one of the churches you refer to! I've been there 3 or 4 times myself. After the service I had to run outside tear my clothes, put sackcloth on, and put ashes on my head.

LOL!

 

[freeindeed2]

Actually I just went to the hotel and took a long hot shower. I felt dirty...

In CHRIST alone...

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

As an organization the SDA church has not made any big changes. It redefines the IJ, that started in the 1980's and it has redefined the Sabbath to more the idea of a "park in time". Those are steps in the right direction, and it is incremental changes but that is going to be the only effective changes.

As I reported earlier the Valuegenesis 2 studies have shown us that the 3 least believed Adventist doctrines are EGW, The Remnant and the Sanctuary doctrine. Most of those were believed in the 7-12 graders by at best 40% and at the college level they barely registered as believed. That tells us that the SDA church is ripe for change, that it is in fact changing.

This is why it is so important that we don't just give up and leave for something else without helping the church and it's young people to change. Because frankly if they are left with only the TSDA's and their unreasonable thinking they will leave the SDA church and very likely Christianity altogether because that is what is happening in the Western world Christianity is in decline and it is because of too many years of fundamentalism, which has painted Christians as unreasonable and unloving and unacceptable of others. Non of the things that Jesus was known for.

 

[freeindeed2]

As an organization the SDA church has not made any big changes. It redefines the IJ, that started in the 1980's and it has redefined the Sabbath to more the idea of a "park in time". Those are steps in the right direction, and it is incremental changes but that is going to be the only effective changes.

As I reported earlier the Valuegenesis 2 studies have shown us that the 3 least believed Adventist doctrines are EGW, The Remnant and the Sanctuary doctrine. Most of those were believed in the 7-12 graders by at best 40% and at the college level they barely registered as believed. That tells us that the SDA church is ripe for change, that it is in fact changing.

This is why it is so important that we don't just give up and leave for something else without helping the church and it's young people to change. Because frankly if they are left with only the TSDA's and their unreasonable thinking they will leave the SDA church and very likely Christianity altogether because that is what is happening in the Western world Christianity is in decline and it is because of too many years of fundamentalism, which has painted Christians as unreasonable and unloving and unacceptable of others. Non of the things that Jesus was known for.

Individuals may be ripe for change, but the institution/organization is not. They continue to embrace their fundamentalism, legalism, and moralism. That's why so many are leaving.

In CHRIST alone...

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

All pass this on. And Free, the organization is made up of individuals so if they are ripe for change they will change the organization

Dear Friends and Members of the Pacific Northwest Adventist Forum,

Greetings to all, especially those who have just joined our e-mail list of the Forum. For those of you who missed the presentation on Valuegenesis study by Dr. Gillespie on March 8, click on the link below to hear the entire presentation.

http://pa.karmy.com/media/gillepsie.mp3

I really recommend listening to this presentation.

 

[freeindeed2]

All pass this on. And Free, the organization is made up of individuals so if they are ripe for change they will change the organization



I really recommend listening to this presentation.

RC, respecfully, why then did they not only embrace the 27 fundies and encourage a focus on the writings of EGW at the last GC, but also added even another fundie?

In CHRIST alone...

 

[tall73]

At the same church that we got the gum speech during the sermon we also had a guy leading Sabbath school who publicly tore into a lady who was a member there for smoking around her kids and leading them astray. That whole service was uncomfortable.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

RC, respecfully, why then did they not only embrace the 27 fundies and encourage a focus on the writings of EGW at the last GC, but also added even another fundie?

In CHRIST alone...

Because the leadership of the organization are generally those who rose to the position in the previous generation. So the leadership is often behind the local churches themselves. If you have ever been to one of the constinuancy meetings where they elect the conference officers you know how removed those people are from what the local people think. They are nominated by a large committee that is generally mainly conference hierarchy and employees. The constituents vote but have practically know real knowledge of who they are voting for and generally not even with a choice.

So the organization is set up to be self sustaining of those in the employ of the organization. It is the problem of any bureaucracy but that does not mean that the bureaucracy is the organization itself.