How Much Abuse is Enough?

[Johnnz]

There's no justification for any abuse, especially physical abuse, but let's be hones. Are you a sinner? Don't you deserve to go to hell if it were not for Christ dying for you on the cross? Then, how can you say you've done absolutely nothing?

We're all sinful.

There is no coherent logic in your responses. You have a simplistic doctrinal formulation that you see as encompassing any degree of emotional behaviour. But it is simplistic, and in some cases would be very dangerous.

Let me give an example. Some years ago I counselled a woman who I saw as being emotionally and sexually abused by a very perverted husband. He did not see himself in those categories. I advised the woman to stay away from him. His pastor called me, told me I was unscriptural and that he would denounce me from his pulpit.

The result? With that pastor's support he remarried. Within 6 months she left him, having been sexually abused along with her two sons. Some years later a detective called me. That man had been arrested for multiple sexual abuse.

John
NZ

 

[RedPonyDriver]

There's no justification for any abuse, especially physical abuse, but let's be hones. Are you a sinner? Don't you deserve to go to hell if it were not for Christ dying for you on the cross? Then, how can you say you've done absolutely nothing?

We're all sinful.

It's quite another thing when you are the target of someone's issues. When they act like a petulant child, when they drink and destroy a home. You just don't get it.

Emotional abuse is WORSE than physical. The words keep ringing in your mind. The names I was called...because he didn't get his way, because I dared to stand up to him. Again...you don't get it.

 

[Walkingwiththeholyspirit]

Tell me about it, it's a really hard thing to do. I am going through the same thing with my husband. It seems like every other day he's angry/mad at me, and he's always blaming me for everything. He gets mad at me for no reason and then he goes on a "non talking spree vengance" with me. He likes to ignore me and when I do the same thing to him, he gets mad. It seems like he is the only one who has the RIGHT to get mad/upset and take it out on me but let it be far for me to treat him in the same manner that he treats me. I have also been struggling with my husband and my marriage. All I can tell you is to pray and pray hard. GOD is the only one that can come in and change our situation and our husbands. I am in constant prayer with my husband and marriage. I am a very strong person, but sometimes even that has it's limits.

Wow, it is like I wrote this....

 

[mimi75042]

Wow, it is like I wrote this....

And you wouldn't think that so many people are going through this exact same situation. I think my husband is bipolar. His mentality is like a yo-yo, he's up and down.

 

[newhopeinHim]

In abuse there is ALWAYS a victim.... and the abuser

 

[Redwolf6]

Hello everyone. I'm kinda new here and I've been going through a lot this year with my husband and step-daughter. I feel as though I'm at my wits end with my husband though and don't know what to do. I was going to see about looking into divorce, but I thought I'd try to talk to someone and see if I'm just over reacting to a situation that can be changed around for the better.

First I want to say that I know I'm not perfect and I'm not trying to imply any such thing with what I'm going to say about my situation.

My husband and I met at church and got to know each other over the course of a year before he asked me to marry him. We would always talk about God and the Bible and I loved it because I was in love with Jesus and only wanted what God wanted for me - which of course included a mate. We've now been married for 14 years yet everything seems to be spiraling out of control. Every day it's a constant walking on egg shells wondering if he is going to go on one of his insulting rampages. Two days ago he walked in and told me that I should have thanked him for cleaning my Suburban on the inside and the outside and that I have no appreciation for what he does and that I am so rude that I can't even say "Thank you" to anything or anyone (I didn't know he had just cleaned it until he spouted all this). He called me lazy and told me that after I come home from work every day I should clean the house and make dinner and do that every day instead of coming home hoping to have a little relaxation before I have to go to sleep and get up at 5 am to go to work the next day. He has actually called me an A-hole among other things and always seems to know how I think even if I never thought the way he says I thought. He tells people lies about me when I'm not around so I can't defend myself and tell them what he said isn't true. He keeps telling me I'm not a Christian because I don't appreciate him. At times it seems like he is Satan himself and I feel so helpless.

I'm buying the house we live in with the money I get from my full time job. Even though we are married, we sleep in separate rooms and I can't remember the last time it felt like we were married. I just feel like I'm living with a roommate that likes to verbally abuse me any chance he can get and it's really

 

[Redwolf6]

Having been an emtional abuser and in therapy for it. My wife left me for the same reasons and only then did I see what I had been doing. A book the helped me alot was the The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Beverly Engle. It has both the abuser and the abused and ways to help and heal both.

 

[Brianlear]

Why are you working full time to pay for a house? What is he doing?
We need more context, a bit more about his history, to really help you here.

 

[DaisyDay]

There's no justification for any abuse, especially physical abuse, but let's be hones. Are you a sinner? Don't you deserve to go to hell if it were not for Christ dying for you on the cross?

Do you think they deserve to be put through hell by their spouses now because they are not perfect? That's how this comes across.

Then, how can you say you've done absolutely nothing?

Context.

We're all sinful.

We're not all abusive nor do we all deserve to be abused.

Check out "Welcome to Oz".

 

[HannahT]

As I said in the other post, emotional abuse is a two way street. People don't usually randomly treat other people like a jerk unless they feel slighted in some way. So, the question is how do we deal with people who hurt our feelings in a Christlike way.

You can say emotional abuse is a two way street all you wish, but it still doesn't make it so. The bible speaks very strongly about the tongue, and you won't find anywhere that it states its a two way street constantly. It's not there.

It seems you don't realize the difference between being emotional abusive, and being a jerk. Maybe if you educated yourself on the issue you may grasp how silly you sound. It's clear you have no grasp on this.

People that aren't spouses can be emotionally abusive - habitually - and people don't have to do anything to bring it on. Parents strip the spirit right out of their children for example. Normally, in this dynamic there more than just emotional abuse. There is neglect as one example.

They do it because they had a bad day, and their child becomes their whipping boy. They get mad at something that is completely off the radar in the present circumstance, and its somehow the child's fault because blame and shaming the child makes them feel more power over the circumstance. In reality, it doesn't but it does give them the temporary high of feeling it.

I find that people that are emotional abusive are emotionally immature. They don't know what to do with uncomfortable feelings, and will not allow themselves any self reflection - they lash out instead. Once you have broken that bond of trust they are just as comfortable to hug as a cactus. They also lack the skills to resolve anything. Sadly, they aren't capable of it when it comes to aspects in life that count.

Randomly being a jerk is being human. Habitually being emotional abusive? That's isn't. They are not only destroying themselves, but everyone that tries to care for them. HUGE difference between the two.

There's no justification for any abuse, especially physical abuse, but let's be hones. Are you a sinner? Don't you deserve to go to hell if it were not for Christ dying for you on the cross? Then, how can you say you've done absolutely nothing?

We're all sinful.

That makes absolutely no sense in context of this discussion. None.

The bible says plenty of things about abusive people, and those that enable them.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.

 

[Johnnz]

True. But some people are deeper into their falleness than others. It is naive not to recognise that. Poor and potentially dangerous pastoral oversight can eventuate from too shallow understanding.

John
NZ

 

[abacabb3]

I see a lot of self-righteousness here and not the Christlike desires we ought to be adopting as seen in 1 Peter 3:1-7. The Scripture says to respect and show honor to those who don't deserve it. I would suppose that includes even if they abuse you emotionally or otherwise. If the abuse it too tough separate until you can reconcile. But, to use absue as an excuse for bitterness is just to take one sin and use it as jsutification for another sin.

 

[Johnnz]

Jesus advised us to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. There are time for patience and hope, but also times to sever a relationship that has become destructive. We work out biblical principles within the contexts of each of our situations. Over the centuries Christians have refined their thinking to formulate an explicit doctrine of the Trinity, to cease believing the sun revolves around the sun, that slavery is acceptable, that women should be able to vote and get educated are some obvious examples. Jesus upheld David taking the sacred bread for his army to eat, although that was forbidden as a general principle. Hosea was to marry a woman who had become a prostitute. Isaiah went naked for three years.

John
NZ

 

[HannahT]

I see a lot of self-righteousness here and not the Christlike desires we ought to be adopting as seen in 1 Peter 3:1-7. The Scripture says to respect and show honor to those who don't deserve it. I would suppose that includes even if they abuse you emotionally or otherwise. If the abuse it too tough separate until you can reconcile. But, to use absue as an excuse for bitterness is just to take one sin and use it as jsutification for another sin.

It's clear don't understand what the word means, what the dynamics entail - and yet you sit writing about your justifications from ignorance...and call people bitter? Wow. You do know what the definition of self-righteousness is right? Your projecting onto others.

Dealing with abuse with blinders on is disrespect. Allowing people to have their spirits crushed under an out of control person who clearly doesn't even respect themselves? If they valued themselves they wouldn't treat anyone with any form of abuse - and its all tough - that should be a given. You are enabling evil, and using scripture to back yourself up. I mean you don't even know the difference between acting like a jerk, and being emotionally abusive. You won't acknowledge there is HUGE divide between the two.

Sadly, the abusive party has a load of work to do for themselves first. God would wish this. Yet, even with a more common dynamic like alcoholism - they may or may not choose to overcome it. They may or may not choose to recognize that it will be a struggle, and a better way of life if they do choose to change their life. Ownership comes first, and sadly in an abusive circumstance their sense of entitlement may not allow them to acknowledge it in a true fashion. Contrition may never occur to them. It's the saddest thing to see too. Heart breaking in fact. They want it one minute, and yet won't allow themselves to go there. It's to much for them, and they decide the world is their enemy. Anger is their shield.

James 3: 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

I feel pity for such a person. There is no bitterness in truth. There is no swapping one sin for another.

You can honor this person by separation, because they must deal with this. Everyone needs to realize they may never turn from their sin, and that is the worse part. Who wouldn't pity such a person?

If you read James 3? The tongue does more than act like jerk.

 

[rjs330]

Is the husband a professing Christian?

 

[mmksparbud]

Oh yes---life can be hell. My husband drank and was horrible. The emotional, financial physical abuse escalated. I have a rebellious spirit within me from my childhood years of sexual abuse and a bad temper from it. I do not submit easily anymore. I at times did not act very Christ like in my response to his abuse as I determined that if he would not respect me, he would learn to respect my right fist--which, when you have 4 inch heavy metal circle full of keys in your hand can be quite damaging. I called the police on him several times and he usually got carted off as he would then be belligerent to the cops and they'd cart him off. He was court ordered to attend anger management classes 3 times--it costs a lot. And most of the time his drinking ended up costing him his jobs and I was the only one paying the bills. I did understand why he was the way he was when he started talking about his mother. I drew it out of him, it was hard to do at first but it became easier for him and I understood why he had no respect for women. I kept telling him he had to learn to forgive her, no one is perfect and we are all sinners before God----until I met her. Then it was, please Lord, keep me from killing her!!
As he learned to forgive her and talk about things, he became less angry. We've been married 25 years and if the police come one more time for him, they will throw him into prison for a long--that knowledge keeps him at bay and the self awareness he acquired during those anger classes helped him to see himself. He would come home after listening to them and realizing he had done and said the same things and he didn't like being that way. The thing is, unless they want to change---they will not. We can not force another to change, we can only change ourselves. I learned to concentrate on my own walk with God, no matter what he did and to conduct myself as a Christian and it was a struggle and I had to ask forgiveness from God and my husband when I lost my temper and beat him up---I was raised with 3 older brothers and it was esp the younger of the 3, 2 years older than I, that taught me the most about self defense as he had a black belt in Kenpo (he felt I had learned enough when my knee met his nose one day in practice!)
The last years have been good years--we are also both on disability and the surgeries that left him bedridden with me taking care of him were instrumental in his transformation. I wasn't the only one that had to take a 2X4 to him, God did it through broken ankle and knee surgeries. Also, animals. 2 cats (he hated cats, but learned to love them deeply) He was torn up when they died. And now these 2 dogs, all have taught him how to love. He'd not had animals as a child and as he said--he had no idea you could love them so much it hurt so to loose them. He'd never hurt them. Had he, I'm not sure I could have retained myself from really causing him great bodily harm! He has taught me patience!! He learned he's much happier when he is not being a jerk and getting me angry----neither one if us likes me when I get angry--I'm The Hulk!! He was used to submissive women--0ne day he looked at me with a rather proud manner and said--"you're the toughest woman I ever met." We've learned from each other as we let God teach us.

 

[abacabb3]

The word of God through Peter:

2:18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds [v]favor with God...


3:1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and[a]respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with [c]someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.


We cannot control the outcomes of people. We can only control our own decisions and actions. The Scripture is clear as to how slaves ought to respond to cruel masters. It then says wives and husbands, in the same way, ought to respond similarly when being wronged. Don't shoot the messenger, this is what the word of God says.

 

[Dave-W]

To the OP: Have you considered a Matthew 18 process?

15 Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Being abusive is a sin against YOU personally; not just a sin against God.

 

[rjs330]

The word of God through Peter:

2:18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds [v]favor with God...


3:1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and[a]respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with [c]someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.


We cannot control the outcomes of people. We can only control our own decisions and actions. The Scripture is clear as to how slaves ought to respond to cruel masters. It then says wives and husbands, in the same way, ought to respond similarly when being wronged. Don't shoot the messenger, this is what the word of God says.

Yes I agree with this. HOWEVER, the word Is also clear on how to handle a believer who Is sinning against you and refuses to repent of his sin. I think we have lost one of the purposes of the church in our culture. Embarrassment, guilt, the fear of judgement are all things that prevent us from doing what Jesus himself advised us to do. Paul also addresses the issue of the unrepentant sin.

I advise this precious lady go beyond what is comfortable. It sounds like you (the OP) have tried to address your husband's sin directly with him and he has refused to repent. Its time for step 2. Go to two or three trusted Christian brothers and or sisters with this sin. A good Christian couple would be great so your husband can be spoken to by a man as well as a woman. They can speak to him and address the issue. If he still refuses to repent Its time to bring the matter to the church through your pastor. Bring the sin to light. We all know that sin loves darkness rather than light. The light of Jesus would shine upon his sin and reveal it as such. No more secrets. If your husband STILL refuses to repent than its time to separate from him. No divorce, but separation. According to Jesus this is acceptable when dealing with an unrepentant believer. And according Paul this is acceptable as well. Church discipline is ordained and sanctioned by God and unfortunately the church has moved away from that.

The other thing is that refusing to follow the teachings of Jesus and Paul you are,setting yourself up for failure. So often we are too embarrassed to follow the plan of God in matters such as these. Often worse things come because of our pride. God does not sanction divorce in this case, but separation AFTER following the above mentioned method is OK.