• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How many Seventh Day Adventists are Anthropomorphite in theology?

stinsonmarri

Regular Member
Dec 3, 2010
885
10
74
I am currently in Greenville Georgia
✟23,590.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Maybe Paganism is counterfeiting God?


Python Lysimachus is completely correct.

What I don't understand by those who claim that they believe in the Bible, yet they really do not! They have this mystical concept of Elohim the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They refuse to really search the Scriptures which include learning what words mean. Not in modern language but in the language of the Bible. The Bible has proved constantly to be correct in what it provides to mankind. Not like the Koran or the Mormon Bibles the first ones does not have a beginning, the second teaches racism and hatred because of color. Both are mystical having unreliable nonsense that makes no sense. Not the Bible that has sixty six writers who writings are weaved together by Supreme Power. Not supernatural because natural comes from the word nature that Elohim created. The Bible is plain, simple, powerful, spiritual, factual, historical, mathematic, scientific, full of wisdom, secret to the unwise, open to those who are seeking Elohim's kingdom, prophetic, a pathway to Yashua's Kingdom, fair, honest, not racist or bias, provides good health and healthful eating to all mankind, but most of all it bring us hope and faith through Elohim the Holy Spirit that leads us to the Son who leads us back to the Father!

Now we all know that Elohim made man like Them because the Bible said so. I do not care about this word that you call SDA - Anthropomorphites! Because that is not what SDA accept nor do we believe in. Python you should know what it means yourself! Actually you believe in this concept yourself-read:

Anthropomorphism is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics assumed to belong only to humans) to animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as organizations, governments, spirits or deities. The term was coined in the mid 1700s. Examples include animals and plants and forces of nature such as winds, rain or the sun depicted as creatures with human motivations, and/or the abilities to reason and converse. The term derives from the combination of the Greek ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos), "human" and μορφή (morphē), "shape" or "form. . . ."

In religion and mythology, anthropomorphism refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings. Many mythologies are concerned with anthropomorphic deities who express human characteristics such as jealousy, hatred, or love. The Greek gods, such as Zeus and Apollo, were often depicted in human form exhibiting human traits. Anthropomorphism in this case is referred to as anthropotheism.

Numerous sects throughout history have been called anthropomorphites attributing such things as hands and eyes to their god, including a sect in Egypt in the 4th century, and a 10th-century sect, who literally interpreted Genesis 1:27: "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

From the perspective of adherents to religions in which humans were created in the form of the divine, the phenomenon may be considered theomorphism, or the giving of divine qualities to humans. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see I believe in the Divine and Elohim made us to look like the Three of Them. I totally understand the Bible and not some Greek interpretation that you believe in! You believe that beings burn in some pit call hell. When it is known by definition that hell means grave where the dead is placed down in the ground! You believe that the soul is some mystical thing like all pagans believe when Satan told Eve you really won't die! I know that the body is a soul with the breath of life and when you die there is no soul. I know that the word spirit really means your thought process and when you die you do not think, smell, feel, breathe, love or anything anymore at all. I believe in a first and second resurrection and the first one righteous people will live again when Yashua returns. You believe that Elohim are not Three Supreme Beings that work together as One. Instead you believe that your God have human traits namely personalities that is some kind of supernatural force. This force changes from the Father to the Son and the Holy Spirit is some other type of orb from this one God. My Bible proves without a doubt that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all have a body which includes hands, mouth, feet, arms, legs, and so on. Elohim is not a force or some glob but They are Beings made eternally and at this time we are not! If they can made all types of chemicals which have neutrons, protons, from atoms than we do not know what Elohim molecular structure is! All I know and believe is that They exist and that's enough for me. Here is what the Bible says to back up my faith.

Then Elohim said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small." So Elohim created human beings, making them to be like Elohim. Elohim created them male and female, Gen 1:26, 27 (GNB) A some what better understanding Text.

And they saw the Elohim of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw Elohim, and did eat and drink. Ex 24:10, 11

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:9

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:13-15

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. Rev 5:1

Blessings,
stinsonmarri
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Python Lysimachus is completely correct.


Lysimachus says paganism is counterfeiting God...
...And this is in the context of the O.P..
...Anthropomorphite teaching within SDAism.

Actually Anthropomorphite views of God the Father is borrowed from paganism...
...Which maintained that all the god's such as Zeus had all the organs and parts of a perfect man, with rectum.
...The same heathen understanding was applied to the founders of the god's - the Titans.

The concept that God had a rectum and all the other parts and organs of a perfect man is alien to Judaism...
...It's alien in both the Oral and Written Sacred Traditions of Judaism.
...However it's saturated in pagan religious texts.

Therefore my question to you Stinsonmarri is how or why do you agree with Lysimachus....
...When it's so easily demonstrated by documentation that the Anthropomorphite view of God.
....Is ONLY supported by pagan religions.
....It simply does not exist in Jewish or Christian history.


Stinsonmarri said:
What I don't understand by those who claim that they believe in the Bible, yet they really do not!


You will have to help me out here Stinsonmarri - what do you mean by saying that?
...Is it because you believe if the Bible says God has wings then it must mean God has literal wings?


Stinsonmarri said:
They have this mystical concept of Elohim the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They refuse to really search the Scriptures which include learning what words mean. Not in modern language but in the language of the Bible. The Bible has proved constantly to be correct in what it provides to mankind. Not like the Koran or the Mormon Bibles the first ones does not have a beginning, the second teaches racism and hatred because of color. Both are mystical having unreliable nonsense that makes no sense.


The concept of the Trinity IS mystical according to 1 Timothy 3,16...
...Check the word meaning of mystery in Strong's.

The lengthy article 'God is a real person' at the following URL is from the seventh-day adventist archives...
...In the VERY first paragraph the article rebukes the Methodist creedal affirmation.
...That there is but ONE TRUE GOD that is everlasting without body and parts.

The article continues on to give it's 'proofs' that God has a rectum and all the other parts of a perfect man...
...Mind you that the article is EXPLICIT that this is God PRIOR to the Incarnation.
...This concept can ONLY be duplicated by the religious rubrics of the pagan gods.
...Or what antedated them - the mighty Titans ( Fathers of the god's ) - such as Kronos, Themis, etc.

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18780905-V52-11__B.pdf#search="


If you read the complete article ( it was continued multiple times ) in the Adventist Review...
...You will take note that the SDA's rebuke not just the Methodist creedal affirmation of God.
...But go through each and every Protestant creedal affirmation claiming they are gross error.
...Cotinuing the blasphemy initiated by the Catholic Church that God does not have a body.

This question came up in the thread where Ellen White, acting through the spirit of prophecy...
...Affirmed Great Anthropoid Apes mated with wemon of color in interior Africa.
...Who subsequently gave birth to confused fruit ( human - ape hybrides ).





Stinsonmarri said:
Not the Bible that has sixty six writers who writings are weaved together by Supreme Power. Not supernatural because natural comes from the word nature that Elohim created. The Bible is plain, simple, powerful, spiritual, factual, historical, mathematic, scientific, full of wisdom, secret to the unwise, open to those who are seeking Elohim's kingdom, prophetic, a pathway to Yashua's Kingdom, fair, honest, not racist or bias, provides good health and healthful eating to all mankind, but most of all it bring us hope and faith through Elohim the Holy Spirit that leads us to the Son who leads us back to the Father!


No one is saying the Bible is bad here Stinsonmarri, nor am I claiming anything supernatural in the O.P....
...I merely asked how many SDA's are Anthropomorphite in their beliefs.
...As Ellen White claimed it was a pillar doctrine that everything else stood on.

Stinsonmarri said:
Now we all know that Elohim made man like Them because the Bible said so. I do not care about this word that you call SDA - Anthropomorphites! Because that is not what SDA accept nor do we believe in. Python you should know what it means yourself! Actually you believe in this concept yourself-read:


I'm quoting it from your own archives Stinsonmarri - I'm not making anything up here...
...I've already demonstrated what ALL SDA's meant when they used the phrase; PERSONALITY OF GOD.
...Within the time hack of Ellen White's prophetic ministry.

Subsequent to one Dr. Kellogg publically affirming he had come to believe in the Trinity...
...Ellen White boldy wrote this in response.

Ellen White
You are not definitely clear on the personality of God, which
IS everything to us as a people. You have virtually destroyed the Lord
God Himself.--Letter 300, 1903. {5BIO 292.4}

Kellogg, subsequent to affirming the Trinity claimed that God the Holy Spirit...
...Was EVERYWHERE and believed it was God that kept the earth and everything in it alive.
...This affirmation was shocking to Ellen and the other Adventists of the period.
...Because they believed the Holy Spirit didn't have a personality.





You realize that "your quote" confirmed exactly what I've told you already?
...The thought was alien to both Jewish and Christian ( Apostolic ) communities.
...It was only common in paganism.



 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,339.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
[/size][/font]
Subsequent to one Dr. Kellogg publically affirming he had come to believe in the Trinity...
...Ellen White boldy wrote this in response.

Ellen White
You are not definitely clear on the personality of God, which
IS everything to us as a people. You have virtually destroyed the Lord
God Himself.--Letter 300, 1903. {5BIO 292.4}

Kellogg, subsequent to affirming the Trinity claimed that God the Holy Spirit...http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=59404580
...Was EVERYWHERE and believed it was God that kept the earth and everything in it alive.
...This affirmation was shocking to Ellen and the other Adventists of the period.
...Because they believed the Holy Spirit didn't have a personality.

Either your facts are confused or you're deliberately skewing the issue between Kellogg and Sr White. Kellogg wasn't a problem because He believed in the omnipresence of God. Kellogg believed in pantheism. That was the problem. Not that the Holy Spirit was everywhere, but that God was literally IN everything. It was to that understanding that Sr White spoke to when she stated that Kellogg did not understand the personality of God.
 
Upvote 0

JohnMarsten

Newbie
Jul 18, 2011
1,371
10
✟24,120.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I had understood that Ford was essentially ejected from the SDA denomination...
...Due to being unable to agree with certain prophetic utterances of Ellen White.

Kellogg also was removed from the Church shortly after openly saying he had accepted the Trinity Doctrine...
...I don't understand how those two infuenced SDAism given they were both removed?

I understand Le Roy Froom was a key player in "Questions on Doctrines" being published...
...Of which I have a copy however I dont remember anything about Anthropomorphism being listed as belief.
...I guess I will have to check that out once I can get back home.

To be honest I don't think any Church today is what God would like it to be....
...I know for a fact the Catholic Church has a ton of rats in it.

So Dr. Kellog was removed because he accepted the trinity doctrine? Isnt that what all SDAs believe today? I guess the church has made a blatant mistake back in the day? What was EGWs position back then? was she still alive? DId she believe in the trinity?

@ECR

I havent given the trinity doctrine much thought (as I must admit) but from what I gather now is that the pioneers didnt believe in the trinity, right? Today SDAs believe in the trinity, since you have been proclaiming to be a follower of the pioneers and not so much of the current leadership it would only make sense if you followed that antitrinitarian doctrine, ECR... Or am I now completely mistaken? |Feel free to comment on this one, I am really curious about your opinion...

Again with this Kellog stuff, was right to be wrong back in the day? Is this again some kind of thing like |God didnt want the church to believe in the good stuff until a designated and appointed time, and everybody that got it right too early on had to leave because, yeah, because they got it right?
 
Upvote 0

JohnMarsten

Newbie
Jul 18, 2011
1,371
10
✟24,120.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Python Lysimachus is completely correct.

What I don't understand by those who claim that they believe in the Bible, yet they really do not! They have this mystical concept of Elohim the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They refuse to really search the Scriptures which include learning what words mean. Not in modern language but in the language of the Bible. The Bible has proved constantly to be correct in what it provides to mankind. Not like the Koran or the Mormon Bibles the first ones does not have a beginning, the second teaches racism and hatred because of color. Both are mystical having unreliable nonsense that makes no sense. Not the Bible that has sixty six writers who writings are weaved together by Supreme Power. Not supernatural because natural comes from the word nature that Elohim created. The Bible is plain, simple, powerful, spiritual, factual, historical, mathematic, scientific, full of wisdom, secret to the unwise, open to those who are seeking Elohim's kingdom, prophetic, a pathway to Yashua's Kingdom, fair, honest, not racist or bias, provides good health and healthful eating to all mankind, but most of all it bring us hope and faith through Elohim the Holy Spirit that leads us to the Son who leads us back to the Father!

Now we all know that Elohim made man like Them because the Bible said so. I do not care about this word that you call SDA - Anthropomorphites! Because that is not what SDA accept nor do we believe in. Python you should know what it means yourself! Actually you believe in this concept yourself-read:

Anthropomorphism is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics assumed to belong only to humans) to animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as organizations, governments, spirits or deities. The term was coined in the mid 1700s. Examples include animals and plants and forces of nature such as winds, rain or the sun depicted as creatures with human motivations, and/or the abilities to reason and converse. The term derives from the combination of the Greek ἄνθρωπος (ánthrōpos), "human" and μορφή (morphē), "shape" or "form. . . ."

In religion and mythology, anthropomorphism refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings. Many mythologies are concerned with anthropomorphic deities who express human characteristics such as jealousy, hatred, or love. The Greek gods, such as Zeus and Apollo, were often depicted in human form exhibiting human traits. Anthropomorphism in this case is referred to as anthropotheism.

Numerous sects throughout history have been called anthropomorphites attributing such things as hands and eyes to their god, including a sect in Egypt in the 4th century, and a 10th-century sect, who literally interpreted Genesis 1:27: "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

From the perspective of adherents to religions in which humans were created in the form of the divine, the phenomenon may be considered theomorphism, or the giving of divine qualities to humans. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see I believe in the Divine and Elohim made us to look like the Three of Them. I totally understand the Bible and not some Greek interpretation that you believe in! You believe that beings burn in some pit call hell. When it is known by definition that hell means grave where the dead is placed down in the ground! You believe that the soul is some mystical thing like all pagans believe when Satan told Eve you really won't die! I know that the body is a soul with the breath of life and when you die there is no soul. I know that the word spirit really means your thought process and when you die you do not think, smell, feel, breathe, love or anything anymore at all. I believe in a first and second resurrection and the first one righteous people will live again when Yashua returns. You believe that Elohim are not Three Supreme Beings that work together as One. Instead you believe that your God have human traits namely personalities that is some kind of supernatural force. This force changes from the Father to the Son and the Holy Spirit is some other type of orb from this one God. My Bible proves without a doubt that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all have a body which includes hands, mouth, feet, arms, legs, and so on. Elohim is not a force or some glob but They are Beings made eternally and at this time we are not! If they can made all types of chemicals which have neutrons, protons, from atoms than we do not know what Elohim molecular structure is! All I know and believe is that They exist and that's enough for me. Here is what the Bible says to back up my faith.

Then Elohim said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small." So Elohim created human beings, making them to be like Elohim. Elohim created them male and female, Gen 1:26, 27 (GNB) A some what better understanding Text.

And they saw the Elohim of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw Elohim, and did eat and drink. Ex 24:10, 11

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:9

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:13-15

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. Rev 5:1

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

hey marri!

you'd rather say 66 books, writers not so much (even though I might be mistaken on that one) besides there seem to be a few books that have been lost in transition for example the book of Nathan the prophet (does anyone know anything about it?)
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Either your facts are confused or you're deliberately skewing the issue between Kellogg and Sr White. Kellogg wasn't a problem because He believed in the omnipresence of God. Kellogg believed in pantheism.

The phrase; "Personality of God" meant God had a body to EVERY Seventh-day Adventist...
...Who was alive when Ellen White was, period.
...It meant that God, Michael the archangel and Lucifer had all the organs and parts of a perfect man.

Here are some of your own publications you may check out to confirm this.

SDA Missionary reports to the Union Conference about giving studies on the Personality of God, Lucifer....
...Page 2 / Fiji to Honolulu, 2nd paragraph.

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/AAR/AAR19090712-V13-28__B.pdf#search="


From the SDA "Bible Training School", 1904....
...Article: "Does God have a Personality".
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/BTS/BTS19040101-V02-08__C/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=9


Bible Training School Volume 12 also in 1904...
...Type "Personality of God" in the search bar.
...Tell me what you understand the teaching to be.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/BTS/BTS19040501-V02-12__C.pdf#search="


Ellen White is explicit in the following quote that SDA's are to reject...
Any teaching that denies the personality of God and of Christ.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/GH/GH19201001-V14-10__B.pdf#search="


The "Youth Instructor" charges that the Personality of God means that God has a body with organs...
...And goes so far as to openly state a rejection of this 'Bible teaching'.
...Is about as far into blasphemy as one can go.

Notice the Holy Spirit is NOT included as having it's own Personality...
...As the article claims God, Christ, Lucifer and the angels do.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/GH/GH19201001-V14-10__B.pdf#search="

THAT article quotes Ellen White.

Sorry, my wife is chewing me out to take her to breakfast....
...I have approximately 50 more quotes that all say the same thing.
...Be back later.



Stryder said:
That was the problem. Not that the Holy Spirit was everywhere, but that God was literally IN everything. It was to that understanding that Sr White spoke to when she stated that Kellogg did not understand the personality of God.

I've read Living Temple from cover to cover...
...I have something for you on this.
...Be back.
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Continuing on.


It was promulgated by the SDA's that the fall of Babylon was caused by her ( Babylon's )...
...Forcing the nations to drink of the wrath wine of her FORNICATIONS.
...The 2nd "Fornication" listed I will quote below.

JN Andews ( as in Andrews University )
2. The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325. This doctrine DESTROYS the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous, measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical his tory might well cause every believer in that doetrine to blush.

John Marsten said:
So Dr. Kellog was removed because he accepted the trinity doctrine? Isnt that what all SDAs believe today? I guess the church has made a blatant mistake back in the day? What was EGWs position back then? was she still alive? DId she believe in the trinity?​

The only thing I'm allowed to say here is what I can easily demonstrate...
...From official SDA publications ( to include the works of Ellen White ).
...From those two sources I can say the following.​

The term; 'Personality of God' was codified in Seventh-day Adventist theology and Biblical Process...
...To mean God had a body of "flesh" with all the organs, members & parts of a perfect man.
...To deny this fundamental belief was to deny the SDA sanctuary doctrine & 1844.​

Review and Herald, 1903, page 10 & 11
Therefore WE repeat what we have previously said, To Deny The Personality of God, is to Deny the existence of the Sanctuary in the Heavens; for THERE God dwells. It is to deny the existence of the angels for they are His throne. It is to Deny the Law of God; for it is the foundation of His throne. It is to deny the existence of Satan.....
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19031008-V80-40__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=10


Dr. Kellogg in addition to being a famous SDA Medical Doctor was also a famous SDA Apologist...
...Who wrote scores of articles debating against various Baptist / Methodist Pastors of the era.
...I have collected many of his multiple page articles in SDA publications.

Kellogg ( as well as all SDA apologists of the period ) used the term 'Holy Spirit', 'God's Spirit, often....
...There was never any problem with that.


However shortly after the1st edition copy of Living Temple was vetted the General Conference reported....
...That Kellogg had COME to believe in the Trinity.
...And Kellogg started to use the phrase; 'GOD -The Holy Spirit'.

This is why Ellen White rebuked Kellogg publically in her prophetic utterance....
...By publically telling Kellogg that he had virtually destroyed the Lord God Himself and His Son Jesus Christ.

Ellen White used her gift of prophecy to validate what J.N. Andrews and every other SDA had been saying for the previous 50 years...
...Confirming that God, Lucifer, etc had a bodies of 'flesh'.

Ellen White, Early Writings page 45
I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like himself, he said He had, but I could not behold it, for said he, IF you should once behold the glory of His PERSON, you would cease to exist.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/YI/YI19050606-V53-23__C/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=2

Only two essential beliefs required that all other hinge on....
...That the Personality of God means God has a body.
...And the Sanctuary teaching.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19040908-V81-36__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=10

page 10 ^​


Ellen White
I was shown Satan as he once was, a happy, exalted angel. Then I was shown him as he now is. He still bears a kingly form. His features are still noble, for he is an angel fallen. But the expression of his countenance is full of anxiety, care, unhappiness, malice, hate, mischief, deceit, and every evil. That brow which was once so noble, I particularly noticed. His forehead commenced from his eyes to recede. I saw that he had so long bent himself to evil that every good quality was debased, and every evil trait was developed. His eyes were cunning, sly, and showed great penetration. His frame was large, but the FLESH hung loosely about his hands and face. As I beheld him, his chin was resting upon his left hand. He appeared to be in deep thought. A smile was upon his countenance, which made me tremble, it was so full of evil and satanic slyness. This smile is the one he wears just before he makes sure of his victim, and as he fastens the victim in his snare, this smile grows horrible.--EW 152, 153. {TA 251.3}​


The Righteousness of God, being the characte, the very quality of God, is NOTHING apart from the VERY PERSONALITY OF GOD HIMSELF and CANNOT be had apart from the Personality of God Himself.
http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19001113-V77-46__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=8


At the time of the Kellogg spectacle the SDA Church did it's best to educate it's people as to the blasphemy....
...Of not taking the 'Personality of God' seriously and in the same way it had always been promulgated.
...By the Pioneers.


"Of late the question has REPEATEDLY come to me; Does it make any real difference whether WE believe in the Personality of God, as long as we believe in God? My answer invariable is, it depends altogether upon the standpoint from which we view it. IF from the spiritualists, the Christian Scientist's, the Universalist's, OR FROM any other "IST" OR "ISM", it makes but little or no difference. BUT from the Standpoint of Seventh-day Adventists it makes ALL the difference in the world.

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19031008-V80-40__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=9


The following links establish that the other "ISM'S" spoken of above are....
...Methodism, Lutheranism, Catholicism, Baptist,Anglicanism, Calvinism, etc.
...The issue explicitly stated to be that all those Creeds teach God the Father does not have a body of flesh.

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18550306-V06-24__B.pdf#search=%22




http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18550918-V07-06__B.pdf#view=fit




http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/ST/ST18780829-V04-33__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=4








So, in closing I can't say that Ellen didn't believe in the Trinity on this forum....
...I can only quote what Ellen White actually said within the context of the SDA's.
...Who accepted her prophetic utterances and published material about those utterances.

Hope that helps.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hope that helps what? What is your point in all this?

I don't remember anyone asking you a question about the nature of God....

Stryder asked me directly in the thread to produce explicit proof....
...That to Seventh-day Adventists the phrase; "Personality of God".
...Was codified to mean that God the Father had a 'body w/ all the organs, members, parts of a perfect man'.

I simply demonstrated I wasn't bluffing or stretching anything when I said that was SDA teaching...
...From when Ellen was a child to past her death.

It was explicitly stated to be a foundational doctrine and was supported to the point....
...That Ellen quoted J.N. Andrews that to deny that the Father had a body.
...Was to destroy the Lord God Himself.
 
Upvote 0
EastCoastRemnant said:
... What is your point in all this? ...

DANGER!!!


Beware entering into argumentation on this subject...

"Our ministers must be very careful not to enter into controversy in regard to the personality of God. This is a subject that they are not to touch. It is a mystery, and the enemy will surely lead astray those who enter into it. We know that Christ came in person to reveal God to the world. God is a person and Christ is a person. Christ is spoken of in the Word as “the brightness of His Father’s glory, and the express image of His person.”

I was forbidden to talk with Dr. Kellogg on this subject, because it is not a subject to be talked about. And I was instructed that certain sentiments in Living Temple were the Alpha of a long list of deceptive theories.

These sentiments have had an effect on our people everywhere. Some think it strange that I write, “Do not send your children to Battle Creek.”" - Sermons and Talks Volume One, Page 343


"In regard to the personality and prerogatives of God, where He is and what He is, this is a subject which we are not to dare to touch. On this theme silence is eloquence. It is those who have no experimental knowledge of God who venture to speculate in regard to Him. Did they know more of Him, they would have less to say about what He is. The one who in the daily life holds closest communion with God, and who has the deepest knowledge of Him, realizes most keenly the utter inability of human beings to explain the Creator..." - The Upward Look, Page 326


... the enemy of souls, may present a great deal of truth, but will not present the whole truth, and so is only seeking to ensnare...

...rather instead, seek the truth of the matter from the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy writings and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide, and avoid entering into dialogue and controversy with the serpent, for only by the HOLY SPIRIT can spiritual things be spiritually discerned:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7619104/

And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Acts 28:5
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
DANGER!!!

Beware entering into argumentation on this subject...

"Our ministers must be very careful not to enter into controversy in regard to the personality of God. This is a subject that they are not to touch. It is a mystery, and the enemy will surely lead astray those who enter into it. We know that Christ came in person to reveal God to the world. God is a person and Christ is a person. Christ is spoken of in the Word as “the brightness of His Father’s glory, and the express image of His person.”

It's ok for the Review & Herald, Signs of the Times, Gospel Sickle and Ellen White....
...To teach with great force that God, Michael & Lucifer all had organs, parts and members.
...And to do this in a most open and brutal way in the Church papers.
...Yet the Ministers can't enter into controversy about God the Father having a rectum?

This I've got to hear - is it one of those things that's ok for SDA's to talk about within themselves...
...But don't let the 'Gentiles' hear about it?

I'm not seeing any 'controversy' in any of the almost countless articles the SDA's generated about this.....
...Other than the authors of those articles being upfront that all Protestant denominations.
...Had drank deep from the wine of Babylon in accepting that God didn't have a body prior Incarnation.




3 Angles Message said:
I was forbidden to talk with Dr. Kellogg on this subject, because it is not a subject to be talked about. And I was instructed that certain sentiments in Living Temple were the Alpha of a long list of deceptive theories.

These sentiments have had an effect on our people everywhere. Some think it strange that I write, “Do not send your children to Battle Creek.”" - Sermons and Talks Volume One, Page 343


"In regard to the personality and prerogatives of God, where He is and what He is, this is a subject which we are not to dare to touch. On this theme silence is eloquence. It is those who have no experimental knowledge of God who venture to speculate in regard to Him. Did they know more of Him, they would have less to say about what He is. The one who in the daily life holds closest communion with God, and who has the deepest knowledge of Him, realizes most keenly the utter inability of human beings to explain the Creator..." - The Upward Look, Page 326

Who forbid Ellen White to talk to Dr. Kellogg about his coming to believe in the Trinity???
...Are you going to tell me God was the one to forbid Ellen to talk to Dr. Kellogg?
....Please don't do that.




3 Angles Message said:
... the enemy of souls, may present a great deal of truth, but will not present the whole truth, and so is only seeking to ensnare...

...rather instead, seek the truth of the matter from the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy writings and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide, and avoid entering into dialogue and controversy with the serpent, for only by the HOLY SPIRIT can spiritual things be spiritually discerned:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7619104/

And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Acts 28:5

The 'Whole Truth' in this matter is this.


"The Personality of God" = God has a body of flesh with organs, parts and members....
...The phrase ALWAYS meant that to SDA's throughout Ellen White's life.
....The only controversy was when the SDA's officially repudiated all the Protestant creeds as error.
....Whereas those creeds stated that God did not have a body or parts.

3AM, do you hold to an Anthropomorphite view of God the Father, Lucifer and the other good / bad angels?
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
DANGER!!!

Beware entering into argumentation on this subject...

"Our ministers must be very careful not to enter into controversy in regard to the personality of God. This is a subject that they are not to touch. It is a mystery, and the enemy will surely lead astray those who enter into it. We know that Christ came in person to reveal God to the world. God is a person and Christ is a person. Christ is spoken of in the Word as “the brightness of His Father’s glory, and the express image of His person.”

I was forbidden to talk with Dr. Kellogg on this subject, because it is not a subject to be talked about. And I was instructed that certain sentiments in Living Temple were the Alpha of a long list of deceptive theories.

These sentiments have had an effect on our people everywhere. Some think it strange that I write, “Do not send your children to Battle Creek.”" - Sermons and Talks Volume One, Page 343


"In regard to the personality and prerogatives of God, where He is and what He is, this is a subject which we are not to dare to touch. On this theme silence is eloquence. It is those who have no experimental knowledge of God who venture to speculate in regard to Him. Did they know more of Him, they would have less to say about what He is. The one who in the daily life holds closest communion with God, and who has the deepest knowledge of Him, realizes most keenly the utter inability of human beings to explain the Creator..." - The Upward Look, Page 326


... the enemy of souls, may present a great deal of truth, but will not present the whole truth, and so is only seeking to ensnare...

...rather instead, seek the truth of the matter from the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy writings and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide, and avoid entering into dialogue and controversy with the serpent, for only by the HOLY SPIRIT can spiritual things be spiritually discerned:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7619104/

And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Acts 28:5

Thanx for the warning brother... better to let the temptor wither for lack of controversy.
 
Upvote 0

JohnMarsten

Newbie
Jul 18, 2011
1,371
10
✟24,120.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thanx for the warning brother... better to let the temptor wither for lack of controversy.

;) I dont think 'the temptor' will wither, rather he is gonna have a good laugh...

btw ECR so what is your final position about those pioneers (remember my question?) they apparently didnt believe in the trinity. So were they right or were they wrong, or were they right to be wrong? you surely dont want me to wither, do you?
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
btw ECR so what is your final position about those pioneers (remember my question?) they apparently didnt believe in the trinity. So were they right or were they wrong, or were they right to be wrong? you surely dont want me to wither, do you?

I am taking sister White's advice and not getting into a discussion on it. It is one of the mystery's we are not to concern ourselves with. I hold to a historical understanding of Adventism....
 
Upvote 0

JohnMarsten

Newbie
Jul 18, 2011
1,371
10
✟24,120.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am taking sister White's advice and not getting into a discussion on it. It is one of the mystery's we are not to concern ourselves with. I hold to a historical understanding of Adventism....

So you are actually not sure what to believe in, hold on to the pioneers teachings (and reject the trinity) or stick to the common believe (accep tthe trinity). Thats what I understand from your statement...
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So you are actually not sure what to believe in, hold on to the pioneers teachings (and reject the trinity) or stick to the common believe (accep tthe trinity). Thats what I understand from your statement...

Understand as you will....
 
Upvote 0

JohnMarsten

Newbie
Jul 18, 2011
1,371
10
✟24,120.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

DANGER!!!


Beware entering into argumentation on this subject...

"Our ministers must be very careful not to enter into controversy in regard to the personality of God. This is a subject that they are not to touch. It is a mystery, and the enemy will surely lead astray those who enter into it. We know that Christ came in person to reveal God to the world. God is a person and Christ is a person. Christ is spoken of in the Word as “the brightness of His Father’s glory, and the express image of His person.”

I was forbidden to talk with Dr. Kellogg on this subject, because it is not a subject to be talked about. And I was instructed that certain sentiments in Living Temple were the Alpha of a long list of deceptive theories.

These sentiments have had an effect on our people everywhere. Some think it strange that I write, “Do not send your children to Battle Creek.”" - Sermons and Talks Volume One, Page 343


"In regard to the personality and prerogatives of God, where He is and what He is, this is a subject which we are not to dare to touch. On this theme silence is eloquence. It is those who have no experimental knowledge of God who venture to speculate in regard to Him. Did they know more of Him, they would have less to say about what He is. The one who in the daily life holds closest communion with God, and who has the deepest knowledge of Him, realizes most keenly the utter inability of human beings to explain the Creator..." - The Upward Look, Page 326


... the enemy of souls, may present a great deal of truth, but will not present the whole truth, and so is only seeking to ensnare...

...rather instead, seek the truth of the matter from the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy writings and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide, and avoid entering into dialogue and controversy with the serpent, for only by the HOLY SPIRIT can spiritual things be spiritually discerned:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7619104/

And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Acts 28:5

I am just curious about when she made THAT statement was it long after those published review & herald phrases? cause it might be that they finally had to change their mind but realized that it would actually cause more harm than good and putting a veil of silence on it help damage control. I dont know... but I think not going into that topic is kind of lame, besides you never know if that restriction wasnt just meant to last for the 19th hundreds...
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
According to the official religious publications of the Seventh-day Adventist Church....
...And the prophetic utterance of Ellen White.
...An affirmation that the Holy Spirit was distinct and "God" was Pantheism.

In the Adventist construct "God" & "Christ" were PERSONAL BEINGS which was codified to mean...
...Each had a PERSONALITY ( AKA a 'body' of flesh ).
...These personal beings were in a literal dwelling place ( the temple in heaven ).




Seventh Day Adventits Review & Herald, April 14, 1912, Page 6 "God of the Bible"

One objection that is sometimes urged against the personality of God, IS his
omnipresence. But it would not be difficult for a personal God to send his Spirit
wheresoever he desired. " Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I
flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my
bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and
dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall thy hand lead me, and
thy right hand shall hold me." Ps. 139: 7-10. As the rays of the sun give light
upon the earth, though the sun is far distant, so God by his Spirit can reach
all parts of his dominion without being personally there. The Spirit of God is
spoken of as " proceeding from the Father." Thus the Bible makes it plain
that while our Heavenly Father and his Son, our Saviour, are in heaven, with
the holy angels, yet by means of his Holy Spirit he is present with all his saints
on earth, comforting and strengthening them in their Christian warfare. After the resurrection of Jesus, he sent word to the brethren by Mary, " I ascend
unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Again, Mark 16:19: "So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up
into heaven,
and sat on the right hand of God." In harmony with this is the
testimony of Stephen. " Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
standing on the right hand of God.' 1 Acts 7:56. From the Scriptures it must be apparent that God is a living, personal Being; that his dwelling-place is in heaven; that Christ is there with him; that he executes his will in all places by means of his Spirit; that a god that is only a principle must be lacking in mind and in intelligence; that pantheism is a dangerous form of infidelity; that the Bible everywhere recognizes a living, personal God as its author. The sun-worshiperworships the sun, mistaking the creature for the Creator. The pantheist, equally unwise, loses sight of the great Lifegiver, and sees only the life emanating
from him. Reverently we say, as we worship the living, personal God of the
Bible, " From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19120404-V89-14__B.pdf#search=%22

PAGE 6 of ^

That's the 'violation' of the SDA Pioneer faith right there - it's not that Kellogg used the phrase Holy Spirit....
...It's because Kellogg stated it was "God The Holy Spirit".

Because the SDA rubric REQUIRED God was a literal being with a body of flesh in a literal temple in heaven....
...Any teaching that suggested that the Holy Spirit was equally God with the Father.
...Was destroying THE PERSONALITY OF GOD - that was the whole point of ALL SDA apologetics.

I.E. if "God" And "Christ" are literal beings with each having a PERSONALITY ( body of flesh )....
...And the Holy Spirit is also God like the Father is God but does NOT have a PERSONALITY.
...Then that teaching would destroy the teaching that God is a real Person with a real PERSONALITY.

It's as simple as that.

What most SDA's do is accept the correct definition of what Pantheism is then charge Kellogg with promulgating it...
...When the facts are that to every SDA alive when Ellen White was.
...Any teaching that destroyed THEIR teaching that God was literally flesh.
...WAS PANTHEISM.

The above article's theme can be re-produced in scores of other articles ALL saying the same thing...
...I'm not saying that there is anything "wrong" with people here believing it.
...I'm just trying to help by simply demonstrating what the SDA Church taught as Fundamental Doctrines.




 
Upvote 0