How many people want to believe in God so they don't go to hell but can't

[trentlogain2]

"..I submit to you that whereas fear is good office work in preparing us for grace, it's no place to stop. And the Holy Ghost doesn't stop there. That's the reason why people cannot savingly receive Christ until they've repented. And persons can repent that persons has been convicted. And conviction is the work of the Holy Ghost that helps a sinner to see...THAT HE IS A CRIMINAL BEFORE GOD AND DESERVES ALL GOD'S WRATH. AND IF GOD WERE TO SEND HIM TO THE LOWEST CORNER OF A DEVIL'S HELL FOREVER AND TEN ETERNITIES, THAT HE DESERVED IT ALL! And a hundred fold more. Because HE'S SEEN HIS CRIMES!" -Paris Reidhead
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I didn't intentionally capitalize the last words to yell. I copied the text already like that.

 

[Scott1979]

To the OP, I don't see how you can fear hell but not believe in God. Going to hell is punishment for not following God as we all know. I don't understand the question unlesss it is just a general question and not what you yourself believe.

 

[Spunkn]

It blows my mind people can believe in Creation and not accident. I can't make a apple appear.

How does nothing come from something? How does a dot explode and become a universe randomly?

How does an accident produce the amazing complexity of life?

How does random chance create human beings who can think and understand things?

If it indeed the universe is "random chance" then why are tommorow's rules the same as today's? Why does my memory function the same today as it did tommorow. Why does gravity always work the same way? Why don't we wake up one morning and gravity just stops work. Why do foods taste the same? Why doesn't it change every day?

Ask yourself this as well. If there is no God, what is the purpose in life? We live, we die. That's it. You're gone. So what does it matter what you do here on earth if that's all there is?

But if there is a God, it doesn't just end with death. There is an eternity in Heaven waiting for us. There is purpose here on earth.

God upholds the universe and made it in such a way that it has laws in the way it works. God created us in His image so that we are able to think, to reason, to understand things. He gave us senses that are reliable so that we can test things. If our senses were not reliable then there would be no basis for science, since how could we test things.

I could go on and on and on and you would probably just become bored. There are many ways in which to answer your questions.

You start with the idea that there can be no God and when you look at evidence of God's creation you say, that can't happen because there is no God. You start with the presupposition that God could not have created and that it was random chance.

I look at things with the presupposition that God created and that it never could not have been random chance.

 

[aiki]

How can there be an invisible man who can create a universe. So many people believe this. How?

God isn't a man, though, as a Being of Spirit, He is invisible (though, being God, He can make Himself visible if He likes). That God created the universe makes better sense of the facts than that the universe has always existed or that nothing brought something into existence. I wonder how not believing in a Creator-God is possible for rational human beings.

It blows my mind people can believe in Creation and not accident.

I don't understand. You think it is more likely that the universe began as an accident? Really? You don't see how incredibly unlikely and irrational this view is? The idea that God made the universe is much more in accord with reality than thinking an accident happened (whatever that means) and the universe just popped into being out of nothing. You do understand that before the universe began to exist there was no time, space, or matter? There was no thing - at all. In any way. How, then, could the absence of everything produce something? It's patently impossible! Yet you seem to be saying that it is possible! Now that's mind blowing!

Selah.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Eternal punishment is intended for Satan and the demons alone. Mortal man is mortal, and will die, body and spirit; not live forever in torment. An ever-burning hellfire for man is a devil-inspired invention.

 

[aiki]

Matthew 13:40-42
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:11-14
11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Revelation 20:13-15
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:44-46
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Selah.

 

[Maximillia]

It sounds as though you are in Hell now.
It sounds as though you listen to the dark side side, acted on it and now are paying the price.
You need to remember that the dark side is a lier and wants you in hell.
Don't let this clowns win like this, he is NOT the highest authority, as a matter of fact once you truly accept Jesus as your savior you grow a new heart which gives you the authority to rebuke him and he will flee.
All things are possible in Jesus name.

 

[Spunkn]

Eternal punishment is intended for Satan and the demons alone. Mortal man is mortal, and will die, body and spirit; not live forever in torment. An ever-burning hellfire for man is a devil-inspired invention.

If hell is not real, and we as humans die in both spirit and body. What is the point of salvation? Why would we need to be saved if we are just going to die in both body and spirit anyway?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If hell is not real, and we as humans die in both spirit and body. What is the point of salvation? Why would we need to be saved if we are just going to die in both body and spirit anyway?

We all will die once, and our bodies will decay away. This is the first death. After that the resurrection and judgement. Those who are condemned face the final death of the soul, their human spirit, in the 'lake of fire'. This is the second death.

It is the demons who will be tormented forever in this fire. The condemned will be burnt up, destroyed. God will also mercilfully erase the very memory of them so that friends and loved ones who are saved will not grieve for them forever.

 

[Spunkn]

Daniel 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:40-41 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

The same lake of fire which is used for the devil and his angels

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Daniel 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:40-41 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

The same lake of fire which is used for the devil and his angels

Both demons and unbelievers are thrown into the lake of fire, but the unbelieving humans are destroyed by it, the demons are tormented in it forever. Believing that mortal man can withstand the fire is to grant them the same spirit immortality that the demons have. "The (human) soul that sinneth shall die", not live forever in torment.

 

[Spunkn]

It doesn't say in those Scriptures that man is destroyed by it. Eternal punishment. Something that goes on forever and ever.

Man has mortality, but also has a soul, which will not be destroyed by the fire.

"The soul that sinneth shall die", is talking about you as a a mortal person, but that verse is also translated as "The person who sins will die." And yes they will die. And the lake of fire is also the second death. But they are not annihilated. It will be eternal. Death is not the complete and utter destruction of your soul.

As much as I want it to be otherwise, I believe hell is eternal.

 

[Mikecpking]

It doesn't say in those Scriptures that man is destroyed by it. Eternal punishment. Something that goes on forever and ever.

Man has mortality, but also has a soul, which will not be destroyed by the fire.

"The soul that sinneth shall die", is talking about you as a a mortal person, but that verse is also translated as "The person who sins will die." And yes they will die. And the lake of fire is also the second death. But they are not annihilated. It will be eternal. Death is not the complete and utter destruction of your soul.

As much as I want it to be otherwise, I believe hell is eternal.

There is no scripture that supports the idea of an immortal soul. Rather, it is the 'soul' that dies at physical death:

Judges 16:30
Numbers 23:10

There is a resurrection on the last day and then judgement.

 

[Spunkn]

How are we to receive eternal life if it is not eternal? How can we spend an eternity with God if our soul is not immortal? If you believe in an eternal heaven, then you have to accept an eternal hell as well.

 

[Mikecpking]

How are we to receive eternal life if it is not eternal? How can we spend an eternity with God if our soul is not immortal? If you believe in an eternal heaven, then you have to accept an eternal hell as well.

Good question, but here is a good video that explains the truth of the resurrection rather than immortality of the soul. Eternal life will be in the resurrection (1 cor 15).

State of the Dead - First response to OneTrueChurch (2A) - YouTube

The biblical 'soul' means l'life, or 'breathing creature'. The ideas of a disembodied afterlife came with contacts with Greek culture and philosophy to the Jews.

 

[Spunkn]

Adam and Eve would not have died except they chose to disobey God. They would have lived forever. The punishment for sin was death. If immortality was not part of the original plan, then how can death be a punishment for choosing to disobey God?

Watching the video now though

Though it brings up some good points, I still do not agree with it. I know we went into this discussion at some point at the Bible college I went to, and I'll have to see if I can dig up all the notes and stuff I took

I still think there are parts to the whole picture that the video is missing, I just can't come up with them off the top of my head right now. But I will dig into it. Because I do want to defend and uphold truth. And if I'm incorrect then I want to be corrected in the way that Iron sharpens Iron.

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Why Eternal? The eternal, neverending nature of the sinner’s punishment is directly related to the infinite and eternal nature of God. When you sin against an infinite God—and all sin is primarily oriented toward God—you accrue an infinite debt. This is the only way to explain the Father’s decision not to spare His Son but to deliver Him to suffer in our place (Romans 8:32). An eternal, infinite being was needed to bear the weight of an infinite punishment.

Why Torment? The torments of hell are directly related to the transcendent holiness of God. Those who face that weight of condemnation have sinned against a God who is truly, purely holy. God’s holiness is unable to tolerate anything or anyone that is unholy; His holiness is like a gag reflex that acts out in wrath against all sin (Romans 1:18) so that on the Cross even Christ had to cry out in His forsakenness, cut off from all that was good and pure and holy (Matthew 27:46).

Why Conscious? Those who have sinned consciously must also bear their punishment consciously. The Bible tells us that we have not been passive in our rebellion against God, but have been willing participants, active rebels. In some mysterious way we were even willing participants in the sin of Adam. Justice demands conscious punishment, not mere annihilation of the person or his or her sin. What clearer example do we have than Jesus Christ who consciously bore God’s wrath against sin? If Christ’s suffering for our sin was conscious, so too will be the suffering of those who bear their own sin. God will not ask less of them than He asked of His Son.

The God every person wants is a God who is good, a God who gives good things to the ones He loves. But to have a God who is good, we must first have a God who is holy. God’s goodness flows out of His holiness. The God of the Bible is a holy God. This attribute of God draws attention to His otherness, His set-apartness, the vast gulf between Creator and creature. It tells us that God must be separated from sin, and it says that He is committed to seeking His own honor. God is unimaginably holy, utterly perfect to the greatest degree and the farthest extent. And because He is holy, He is good.

What a stark contrast we make. We human beings are sinful in body, mind, and spirit—no part of us has escaped or remained undefiled. It is only God’s restraining grace that keeps any of us from pursuing our sin to a greater and greater degree, from becoming as utterly and horribly sinful as we could possibly be (James 1:14–15; Romans 1:28–32; 8:2). Only the grace of God stands between any one of us and the vilest of sins. We are not this way because God made us this way, but because this is what we have chosen for ourselves (James 1:13–14). No one has forced us into such unholiness, such moral depravity. This is what we have desired and the path we have taken. Our moral freedom has led us to utter moral corruption.

It is this contrast that makes hell a horrible necessity. The holiness of God demands that He remain separate from sin, that those who commit sin must be kept out of His presence. How could such holiness mingle with such impurity? Holiness flees from sin. They are incompatible, irreconcilable. And so sinners must be cast out, and they must be kept out of God’s presence.
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taken from http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v7/n3/eternal-torment

 

[Mikecpking]

Adam and Eve would not have died except they chose to disobey God. They would have lived forever. The punishment for sin was death. If immortality was not part of the original plan, then how can death be a punishment for choosing to disobey God?

Watching the video now though

Though it brings up some good points, I still do not agree with it. I know we went into this discussion at some point at the Bible college I went to, and I'll have to see if I can dig up all the notes and stuff I took

I still think there are parts to the whole picture that the video is missing, I just can't come up with them off the top of my head right now. But I will dig into it. Because I do want to defend and uphold truth. And if I'm incorrect then I want to be corrected in the way that Iron sharpens Iron.

Hi,
There are 2 other parts to it. I guess I am touchy about the word 'soul' but here is a link to a huge study on the biblical soul starting with 'nephesh' and then 'psuche' in the NT.
Dr. Tory Hoff

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It doesn't say in those Scriptures that man is destroyed by it. Eternal punishment. Something that goes on forever and ever.

Man has mortality, but also has a soul, which will not be destroyed by the fire.

"The soul that sinneth shall die", is talking about you as a a mortal person, but that verse is also translated as "The person who sins will die." And yes they will die. And the lake of fire is also the second death. But they are not annihilated. It will be eternal. Death is not the complete and utter destruction of your soul.

As much as I want it to be otherwise, I believe hell is eternal.

The translation/interpretation of 'soul' to mean only a 'breathing creature' has led many to believe in the immortality of the soul. But Jesus separates the soul, or the unique spirit essense of each person, from the body:

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Mikecpking]

The translation/interpretation of 'soul' to mean only a 'breathing creature' has led many to believe in the immortality of the soul. But Jesus separates the soul, or the unique spirit essense of each person, from the body:

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here is another take on that which gives a different take which removes the obvious contradiction:

Christ added a sense of resurrection to the Hebred view of N. Throughout OT times people were afraid of those that sought N in order to destroy. Christ, however, taught: "... do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill P; rather fear him who can destroy both P and body in gehenna." (Mat. 10:28) The Hebrews believed man could kill N; but Christ instead taught that man could not kill P. Even though the Jews might try to tamper with P, ultimately they could not. When teaching his disciples to expect persecution, Christ said, "You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends, and some of you they will put to death; you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your P." (Lk. 21:19) The Jews were challenged to see that P could be saved if P would be sacrificed. Christ's disciples learned that God still would keep P safe despite even death. "But we are not of those who shrink and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their P." (Heb. 10:39) The P that was sacrificed would receive a full existence and not the sha­dowy existence of the rephaim.

Welcome to the Sites of Dr. Tory Hoff

 

[horrace99]

The Bible actually says that all people know God exists but the truth us suppressed in they're hearts. paul wrote ''For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

We all know that God exists in our hearts but our pride and ego refuses to let us submit to God.We must overcome our pride before we can enter the kingdom OF God.

Jesus said:nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

And solomon wrote: ''He has also set eternity in the hearts of men''

We all have God in our hearts but we can't rush God.God will give you strength when your ready for it.

We can't repent out of fear,God wants us to repent out of love and faith comes from hearing the word of God and living by its teachings.

Hope this helps God bless