How many Mid-Acts ?

[eph3Nine]

You all seem to be minimalists.... what's the least we need to do to be saved. I am a maximalist- what's the most I can do to be sure I am saved.

Salvation has to do with what HE HAS DONE to make sure we can KNOW we are saved....not with what we do at all!

God did it ALL...do I believe it or NOT?

If I think there is something I must ADD to it, then I dont believe Him. He says IT IS FINISHED! We need to bow down to Him and say, "Yes Lord, it surely IS!)

 

[eph3Nine]

I would call what you are teaching "taking away" and showing gross ignorance of the Bible and of history. Paul was baptized, and did baptize, as have Christians throughout the past 2000 years. And Christ was baptized, and this is what the risen Christ commissioned to be done, to all nations:

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20




​

That is the Commission to the nation Israel. Its true and its great, but its NOT our commission at ALL!

After Paul recognized and received the new revelation from God...he STOPPED baptizing...and went so far as to say "For CHRIST (the Risen Lord of Glory) sent ME not to baptize..."...obviously a change taking place here due to an understanding of NEW instructions.

 

[JM]

Not me, but willing to consider. I'm interested in the Mid Acts Bible, does anyone know more about it? Can someone offer a site with midacts apologetics defending it's position?

 

[eph3Nine]

Not me, but willing to consider. I'm interested in the Mid Acts Bible, does anyone know more about it? Can someone offer a site with midacts apologetics defending it's position?

Yes , here are several.

www.trustingthelord.com
http://www.discerningthetimes.com/
www.bereanbiblesociety.com
http://www.gmaf.org/studies2.html
http://www.parsonspublishingcompany.com/gems_of_grace_truth.htm
Try those and I will give you more.

 

[xenia]

Salvation has to do with what HE HAS DONE to make sure we can KNOW we are saved....not with what we do at all!

God did it ALL...do I believe it or NOT?

If I think there is something I must ADD to it, then I dont believe Him. He says IT IS FINISHED! We need to bow down to Him and say, "Yes Lord, it surely IS!)

What is finished?

Do you all actually physically bow down, such as shown in the smiley?

 

[eph3Nine]

What is finished?

Do you all actually physically bow down, such as shown in the smiley?

All the work that was necessary to both SECURE our salvation and MAINTAIN it was done on Calvary. Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED" ie: the sin issue has been taken care of ONCE and for ALL.

God is no longer dealing with folks on the basis of their sins, but on the basis of their belief in the Sin BEARER.

LOL....nahhhhh...I was makin a joke with the smiley...but in my mind I always remember who is the CREATOR and who is the "creation"...which keeps my heart in the state of the little smiley guy.

I hope this helps. huuuuuuugs

 

[xenia]

I think I am beginning to understand a little better. Nothing that Jesus says in the Gospels was said to you, it was only said to the Jews. The Beatitudes, the Lord's Prayer, admonitions to feed the hungry and clothe the naked- none of this was said to you. All that you know about Jesus comes filtered through (some) of the writings of St. Paul? Am I starting to understand this?

This is tragic. Not to have one word from our Sweet Savior said to you, only 2nd hand through St. Paul. I could not bare to believe this and live this way. How can you have a relationship with Someone who never spoke to you, not even in the Gospels?

In my Church the Gospels are of utmost importance, often bound together in a separate book from the rest of the New Testament. The Epistles are important but secondary to the Gospels and interpreted in the light of the Gospels.

 

[eph3Nine]

I think I am beginning to understand a little better. Nothing that Jesus says in the Gospels was said to you, it was only said to the Jews. The Beatitudes, the Lord's Prayer, admonitions to feed the hungry and clothe the naked- none of this was said to you. All that you know about Jesus comes filtered through (some) of the writings of St. Paul? Am I starting to understand this?

This is tragic. Not to have one word from our Sweet Savior said to you, only 2nd hand through St. Paul. I could not bare to believe this and live this way. How can you have a relationship with Someone who never spoke to you, not even in the Gospels?

In my Church the Gospels are of utmost importance, often bound together in a separate book from the rest of the New Testament. The Epistles are important but secondary to the Gospels and interpreted in the light of the Gospels.

NO no no , xenia. Some things are true no matter when they were said. The issue we are trying to make here is that the RED LETTER words of Christ while He was on earth were specifically SAID by HIM TO The NATION of Israel. He said so HIMSELF.

We dont get anything second hand from Paul. The RISEN LORD OF GLORY still speaks to we the Body of Christ..thru Paul. Just as Moses was the appointed spokesman to the NATION ISRAEL, so Is PAUL to the Body of Christ. God set up the APPOINTMENT and designated them as HIS Spokesmen.

Certain information was given ONLY to the nation Israel...and was NOT INTENDED for us at all!

All the promises in the book ARE NOT MINE, or yours either. That is what right dividing is all about. Acknowledging what is given specifically TO us and ABOUT us.

If you went to the post office and the postmaster general threw all the mail up into the air for the city and said "come and get it", would you think he was doing his job???

NO...you want the mail addressed specifically TO YOU. You could certainly LEARN from reading someone elses mail, but you wouldnt be expected to pay their bills or answer THEIR correspondence, now would ya?

Why should it be any different with the letters of the Bible? Without Pauls epistles there would BE no mail to we the Body of Christ...there would be NO BODY OF CHRIST at ALL! The Body of Christ and its very existance are DISTINCTLY and UNIQUELY in Pauls epistles ALONE! It is part of the MYSTERY truths which God kept HID, KEPT SECRET, UNTIL the due time. Paul was the DUE TIME testifier...He got the information for US...

 

[xenia]

So, none of Jesus' words in the Bible were spoken to you.

Ok, well, that's interesting in a tragic sort of way.

Well, on to my next question: What kind of church do you folks attend? Do you attend Baptist churches? Home church? What are your services like? Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter?

Thanks for your patience,
Xenia

PS I wasn't suggesting that you don't believe the Gospels are TRUE. I know you believe everything in the Bible is true. Forgive me if I gave that impression.

 

[JMWHALEN]

I would call what you are teaching "taking away" and showing gross ignorance of the Bible and of history. Paul was baptized, and did baptize, as have Christians throughout the past 2000 years. And Christ was baptized, and this is what the risen Christ commissioned to be done, to all nations:

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20



_________________________________________

A brief comment:

And why was the Lord Jesus Christ baptized?

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness...." Mt. 3:15

Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law-it was not optional, nor was it performed as /accepted as a "testimony."

And why not tithe(Mt. 23:23), "..show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them"(Mt. 8:4), be circumcized, tithe......Matthew, Mark, Luke, John-all "law ground". And if you are going to "follow Christ in the waters of baptism", then why not follow him in all observances of the Law, including keeping all Jewish feast days(in Jerusalem)?


Again, Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law. We are not under the law, and this is not the program we are operating under today's "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph 3:2).

Paul also took a vow in Acts!

Where is the water?

" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22,23

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38,39

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50

Not many people have ever answered this question when I pose it(except for those that rightly divide!)

And where is the water?

Baptism into Moses: 1 Cor. 10:2: "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea..."

Notice, no water:

"dry ground" Exodus 14:16

"dry land" Exodus 14:21

"dry ground" Exodus 14:22

"dry land" Exodus 14:29

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8

The word "congealed" here means, 'frozen,thickened, jelled, chrytallized'. Despite what "Hollywood" would have you believe, the waters were frozen! Thus, Ex. 15:8 explains why the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on "dry ground", "dry land".

- Baptism of Fire: Mt. 3:11; Lk 3:16; 2 Thess.. 1:7,8

And on and on.....

You can "get dunked" until the tadpoles know your social security number, or until you look like a prune, but it will not save you in this dispensation-there one baptism that is spiritual(discussed in previous post).

To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation, I ask?

Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? No where in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.


From a sensical point of view, would not the water ritual be a rather poor method to witness to the lost of your salvation? Just how is a sopping wet person a testimony to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Eph. 2:8,9............? A witness has a testimony, i.e., he/she speaks or writes of what has taken place. And just how does wet clothes, wet hair.....do that?

And how is a ceremony, that is, in most cases, performed within the walls of a church building, with mostly believers present, not the lost, effective as a testimony to the lost, i.e., most of the audience is saved! If those that contend that it should be done as a testimony to the lost, then, if they were intellectually honest, then they would go down to the nearest stream/lake/pond and start "dunking away"!



Enough,

In Christ,

John M. Whalen





​

 

[eph3Nine]

So, none of Jesus' words in the Bible were spoken to you.

Ok, well, that's interesting in a tragic sort of way.

Well, on to my next question: What kind of church do you folks attend? Do you attend Baptist churches? Home church? What are your services like? Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter?

Thanks for your patience,
Xenia

PS I wasn't suggesting that you don't believe the Gospels are TRUE. I know you believe everything in the Bible is true. Forgive me if I gave that impression.

Hi to you again, xenia

No, none of the words that Jesus addressed to the Nation of Israel are for my obedience, or yours either.

Why would you think that to be tragic? Do you WANT to put yourself under a LAW program that God gave because you were a stiffnecked people and refused to believe Him? NOT ME....Im glad!

Instead, God put that set of instructions ASIDE and ushered in something BRAND NEW, just for His brand new creation, which IS us! The Body of Christ is Gods answer to the worlds being denied access to HIM by an unbelieving NATION! It was always on His mind, but simply kept SECRET!

To your question of what kind of church do we attend. There are no right division churches in our immediate area...the closest one is an hour and a half ONE way, and with the cost of gasoline, and our getting older and being on a fixed income, we are not able to attend there as we would like. Since we are in a NEW program, the church is not seen by God as IN a building, but in a collective group of people who have believed in the finished work of Christ and are individually members of His Body, we dont actually have to GO anywhere to be what we already ARE. We ARE the church, individual members of His Body.

We fellowship online and with those we have met over the years online.

Christmas isnt a big deal around here...but our family is on the other end of the country. We send gifts, but we dont see Christmas in the same way as the majority of the world. Easter is more of a celebration for us, but not in the traditional sense...NO bunnies and all that stuff...but Im not adverse to eating chocolate made in the shape of eggs or bunnies...LOL

You are doing fine with your questions...dont worry about anyone losing patience with you. We DO beleive ALL the bible..it IS true. Its just not all true FOR US!

I hope this has helped...did you get the books????? wink

 

[eph3Nine]

Some of you don't?

Nope! OUR baptism has nothing to do with water and is found in Eph 4:5.

Baptism in its greek meaning has to do with IDENTIFICATION with something or someone.

We are DRY cleaned..not a drop of water in sight. To be water baptized was REQUIRED under Israels program, but is actually eliminated from ours...the water that is.

To encourage water baptism today is to make the Cross of none effect. We are identified with His death, burial and resurrection...NOT with any water! This is a tradition of MAN carried over from a program God SET ASIDE two thousand years ago.

See how things have gotten muddied up???? Right division sets it straight, with NO confusion.

 

[xenia]

This is a tradition of MAN ...

Christians have always practiced water baptism. It's a 2000 year old tradition of the church and not a tradition of man. The idea that water baptism is wrong is fairly new, isn't it? Historically speaking? When did this idea come into practice?

 

[eph3Nine]

Christians have always practiced water baptism. It's a 2000 year old tradition of the church and not a tradition of man. The idea that water baptism is wrong is fairly new, isn't it? Historically speaking? When did this idea come into practice?

Nope, not new at all. Water baptism was REQUIRED under the program of times PAST with the NATION ISRAEL alone. Do a study on baptism in the OT and see what it represented. It was a cleansing ritual for the NATION OF PRIESTS...which was clearly identified AS ISRAEL.

We arent a nation of Priests, but a NEW CREATION...members one of another and of His Body. OUR baptism is found in the NEW information given to Paul for us. NOWHERE else in scripture is the ONE baptism described for us as something that God the Holy SPIRIT does by placing us INTO the "NEW CREATION" which is His Body.

Just because people have always DONE It, doesnt make it RIGHT.

The IDEA of no water baptism was into play even BEFORE...baptism has to do with IDENTIFYING with something or someone and many of the instances of baptism even in the OT had NOTHING to do with water.

If I can find JMWhalens recent post on baptism...I will post it here so you can read it. Interesting stuff.

 

[eph3Nine]

A brief comment posted previously by JMWhalen and which was good enough to bear repeating for xenia:

And why was the Lord Jesus Christ baptized?

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness...." Mt. 3:15

Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law-it was not optional, nor was it performed as /accepted as a "testimony."

And why not tithe(Mt. 23:23), "..show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them"(Mt. 8:4), be circumcized, tithe......Matthew, Mark, Luke, John-all "law ground". And if you are going to "follow Christ in the waters of baptism", then why not follow him in all observances of the Law, including keeping all Jewish feast days(in Jerusalem)?


Again, Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law. We are not under the law, and this is not the program we are operating under today's "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph 3:2).

Paul also took a vow in Acts!

Where is the water?

" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22,23

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38,39

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50

Not many people have ever answered this question when I pose it(except for those that rightly divide!)

And where is the water?

Baptism into Moses: 1 Cor. 10:2: "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea..."

Notice, no water:

"dry ground" Exodus 14:16

"dry land" Exodus 14:21

"dry ground" Exodus 14:22

"dry land" Exodus 14:29

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8

The word "congealed" here means, 'frozen,thickened, jelled, chrytallized'. Despite what "Hollywood" would have you believe, the waters were frozen! Thus, Ex. 15:8 explains why the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on "dry ground", "dry land".

- Baptism of Fire: Mt. 3:11; Lk 3:16; 2 Thess.. 1:7,8

And on and on.....

You can "get dunked" until the tadpoles know your social security number, or until you look like a prune, but it will not save you in this dispensation-there one baptism that is spiritual(discussed in previous post).

To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation, I ask?

Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? No where in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.


From a sensical point of view, would not the water ritual be a rather poor method to witness to the lost of your salvation? Just how is a sopping wet person a testimony to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Eph. 2:8,9............? A witness has a testimony, i.e., he/she speaks or writes of what has taken place. And just how does wet clothes, wet hair.....do that?

And how is a ceremony, that is, in most cases, performed within the walls of a church building, with mostly believers present, not the lost, effective as a testimony to the lost, i.e., most of the audience is saved! If those that contend that it should be done as a testimony to the lost, then, if they were intellectually honest, then they would go down to the nearest stream/lake/pond and start "dunking away"!

 

[JMWHALEN]

A brief comment posted previously by JHWhalen and which was good enough to bear repeating for xenia:

And why was the Lord Jesus Christ baptized?

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness...." Mt. 3:15

Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law-it was not optional, nor was it performed as /accepted as a "testimony."

And why not tithe(Mt. 23:23), "..show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them"(Mt. 8:4), be circumcized, tithe......Matthew, Mark, Luke, John-all "law ground". And if you are going to "follow Christ in the waters of baptism", then why not follow him in all observances of the Law, including keeping all Jewish feast days(in Jerusalem)?


Again, Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law. We are not under the law, and this is not the program we are operating under today's "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph 3:2).

Paul also took a vow in Acts!

Where is the water?

" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22,23

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38,39

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50

Not many people have ever answered this question when I pose it(except for those that rightly divide!)

And where is the water?

Baptism into Moses: 1 Cor. 10:2: "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea..."

Notice, no water:

"dry ground" Exodus 14:16

"dry land" Exodus 14:21

"dry ground" Exodus 14:22

"dry land" Exodus 14:29

"And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea." Exodus 15:8

The word "congealed" here means, 'frozen,thickened, jelled, chrytallized'. Despite what "Hollywood" would have you believe, the waters were frozen! Thus, Ex. 15:8 explains why the Israelites passed through the Red Sea on "dry ground", "dry land".

- Baptism of Fire: Mt. 3:11; Lk 3:16; 2 Thess.. 1:7,8

And on and on.....

You can "get dunked" until the tadpoles know your social security number, or until you look like a prune, but it will not save you in this dispensation-there one baptism that is spiritual(discussed in previous post).

To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation, I ask?

Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? No where in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.


From a sensical point of view, would not the water ritual be a rather poor method to witness to the lost of your salvation? Just how is a sopping wet person a testimony to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Eph. 2:8,9............? A witness has a testimony, i.e., he/she speaks or writes of what has taken place. And just how does wet clothes, wet hair.....do that?

And how is a ceremony, that is, in most cases, performed within the walls of a church building, with mostly believers present, not the lost, effective as a testimony to the lost, i.e., most of the audience is saved! If those that contend that it should be done as a testimony to the lost, then, if they were intellectually honest, then they would go down to the nearest stream/lake/pond and start "dunking away"!

_______________________________________________
Eph3Nine:

After reviewing your posts, I have concluded that you have a sense of humor(remember the TV show "Alf"? Alf frequently said "I kill me!). In that "spirit", actually I am JMWhalen. I think JHWhalen is my long lost brother(like RacerX was to Speed in "Speed Racer"!). No matter, when I am in public, many people call me "Buddy", as in "Hey, buddy!"

John M. "I thrive on rejection" Whalen

 

[eph3Nine]

LOL....I looked at it to make sure I got it right and I still messed it up....LOL LOL...I heartily apologize Mr John M. Whalen....smacks self and wanders off into the corner...giggling.

 

[CompleteinChrist]

Count me in for mid-acts !

I know what it is like when the truth finds its way home.Welcome to the Mid-Acts fold.

 

[Tertius]

I don't frequent this particular board all that much, but "checking in"...

 

[Ebb]

To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation, I ask?

​

Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? No where in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.

​

​

Yet, they were all baptized. They did so out of obedience to Christ.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20



​

Not being baptized, when you have the opportunity to do so, is a great sin. Why would you want to willfully disobey Christ and teach others to do so?