How many have actually read The Great Controversy or The Desire of Ages...

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

How many have actually read [entirely] The Great Controversy or The Desire of Ages...

The Great Controversy PDF [Link] [dealing with Origin of Evil/Sin, and God's Plan to eradicate it forever]
or Here - [Link]

The Desire of Ages PDF [Link] [The Life of Jesus Christ]

If any have, please reply with what you think about the present current historical events, and the information written in these two books?

If any have not, would you consider reading them, and then answering the first question?

If any have partially [please specify how much/which partially] and would these same consider reading the entirety of those two books and answering the first question, but if not why not, and please be specific, thank you.

 

[Albion]

How many have actually read [entirely] The Great Controversy or The Desire of Ages...

The Great Controversy PDF [Link] [dealing with Origin of Evil/Sin, and God's Plan to eradicate it forever]
or Here - [Link]

The Desire of Ages PDF [Link] [The Life of Jesus Christ]

If any have, please reply with what you think about the present current historical events, and the information written in these two books?

Yes, I've read The Great Controversy. It's just a history book--and not a very accurate one--with anti-Roman Catholic emphases. I have always wondered where Ellen G. White picked up her copy and what its author had entitled the book.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I have a friend who joined the SDA a year and a half back. I asked my husband if he knew much about the beliefs. He handed me both books you mentioned. I assure you, you do not want my critique as it would appear very rude.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Yes, I've read The Great Controversy. It's just a history book--and not a very accurate one--with anti-Roman Catholic emphases. I have always wondered where Ellen G. White picked up her copy and what its author had entitled the book.

A bit blunt but accurate.

 

[from scratch]

I've read enough of them through conversation with SDA and about SDA that I have no desire to read them. From what I do know about them you wouldn't want my critique either.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

...

I have a friend who joined the SDA a year and a half back. I asked my husband if he knew much about the beliefs. He handed me both books you mentioned. I assure you, you do not want my critique as it would appear very rude.

I am listening. Be factual [cited evidence], therefore rudeness will not enter into it.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

Yes, I've read The Great Controversy. It's just a history book--and not a very accurate one--with anti-Roman Catholic emphases. I have always wondered where Ellen G. White picked up her copy and what its author had entitled the book.

Do you see anything of the present history being fulfilled from the words written in that particualr book? Especially involving protestnatism of the USA and Papal Rome?

As for the historical account, which do you think are incorrect [inaccurate], please be specific, cited sources, thank you.

As for Ellen G White, consider the style of the writing with the Scripture itself, as it is even written in chiasms and follows a very specific pattern. Ask one who truly speaks and reads Hebrew/Aramaic and ask them to read that Book, or even Patriarchs and Prophets, or Prophets and Kings. She was inspired of that very same Holy Spirit as Daniel and John.

 

[Hentenza]

She was inspired of that very same Holy Spirit as Daniel and John.

I doubt that. Both Daniel and John were actual prophets of God.

 

[Albion]

Do you see anything of the present history being fulfilled from the words written in that particualr book?

The majority of it concerns past events, as I recall. It takes no prophetic abilities to comment on them.

As for Ellen G White, consider the style of the writing with the Scripture itself, as it is even written in chiasms and follows a very specific pattern. Ask one who truly speaks and reads Hebrew/Aramaic and ask them to read that Book, or even Patriarchs and Prophets, or Prophets and Kings. She was inspired of that very same Holy Spirit as Daniel and John.

I don't think so.

 

[Targaryen]

Yes, I've read The Great Controversy. It's just a history book--and not a very accurate one--with anti-Roman Catholic emphases. I have always wondered where Ellen G. White picked up her copy and what its author had entitled the book.

No thanks, I'll stick to actual fact and intelligent discernment of the facts then Dan Brown like conspiracy theories wrapped up in religious hatred.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

The majority of it concerns past events, as I recall. It takes no prophetic abilities to comment on them.

Sure it does, since one must commentate - rightly [Isaiah 8:20, etc].

I don't think so.

A for example of Chiastic writing...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Relevant Quotation, unedited:[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]... The experience of the disciples who preached the “gospel of the kingdom” at the first advent of Christ, has its counterpart in the experience of those who proclaimed the message of his second advent. As the disciples went out preaching, “The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,” so Miller and his associates proclaimed that the longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire, that the Judgment was at hand, and the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of [/FONT]Daniel 9[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. The message given by Miller and his associates announced the termination of the 2300 days of [/FONT]Daniel 8:14[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], of which the seventy weeks form a part. The preaching of each was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same great prophetic period. ...” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][The Great Controversy 1888, by Ellen G. White; Page 351][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] - [/FONT]Ellen G. White Writings
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]see also [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][Life Sketches Manuscript, by Ellen G. White Page 111] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=LSMS&lang=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=111-[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Highlighted Quotation, with explanation, Key:[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]... [/FONT]The experience of the disciples who preached the “gospel of the kingdom” at the first advent of Christ, has its counterpart in the experience of those who proclaimed the message of his second advent. As the disciples went out preaching, “The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,” so Miller and his associates proclaimed that the longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire, that the Judgment was at hand, and the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of Daniel 9. The message given by Miller and his associates announced the termination of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, of which the seventy weeks form a part. The preaching of each was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same great prophetic period. ...”[The Great Controversy 1888, by Ellen G. White; Page 351; cited previously]

This paragraph is extremely important because of what it clearly states. Also the inherent structure of the text itself is written Chiastically, so that it cannot be broken, nor tampered with. Please take careful notice of the colors and phrases which will help to illustrate this fact. Ellen G White was a prophet/messenger of the Lord, and so like those prophets/messengers before her, she sometimes writes Chiastically as they did. See the following break down:

[0A] “... The experience of the disciples who ...”
“... [II] preached the ...”
“... [III] “gospel of the kingdom” at ...”
“... [IV] the first advent of Christ ...”

“... has its counterpart in ...”

[0B] “... the experience of those who ...”
“... [II] proclaimed ...”
“... [III] the message of ...”
“... [IV] his second advent.”

[1A] “As the disciples went out preaching ...”
[1B] “The message given by ...”

[2A] “... Miller and his associates...”
[2B] “... Miller and his associates...”

[3A] “... proclaimed...”
[3B] “... announced ...”

[4A] “... the … prophetic period ...”
[4B] “... of the... days ...”

[5A] “... longest and last ...”
[5B] “... 2300 ...”

[6A] “... brought to view in the Bible ...”
[6B] “... of Daniel 8:14, ...”

[7A] “... was about to expire ...”
[7B] “... termination ...”

[8A] “... “The time is fulfilled, [II] the kingdom of God [III] is at hand,” ...”
[8B] “... that the Judgment [III] was at hand, and [II] the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. ...”

[9A] “... The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of Daniel 9. ...”
[9B] “... of which the seventy weeks form a part. ...”

Please take notice, especially of the last part, as it clearly links the two messages, etc., together.

[10] “... The preaching of each ...” [This “each” refers to the “portion” of the 2300 days in which the:

Disciples preached a “portion” of the “2300” prophecy in their day [AD 27 - AD 34] which was the Last week [70th Week] of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9; and

[II] the Millerites and his associates preached in their day [AD 1834 – AD 1843/44] the last “portion” of the “2300” prophecy, namely in the 1260, 1290 and especially the 1335 ending which came to its end in AD 1843/44], since each:

“... was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same [2300 days, “the longest and last”, Scripturally, Contextually, Historically and Chiastically] great prophetic period.”; Daniel 8:14 and Daniel 9 being intimately connected.

“...Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.” 2 Chronicles 20:20
​

Testimony from external source:

"Artist Elfred Lee - "I met Rabbi Joe Kagan at Weimar Institute in CA. ...

He had a very negative attitude towards Christianity. He would never touch the New Testament. However, he knew the Jewish Old Testament (Torah) extremely well as a highly educated rabbi would. One day he got hold of a book called "Patriarchs and Prophets" by Ellen G. White. He read it with astonishment and wanted to know who this Ellen White was. That is when I met him. He was asking who is this Ellen G. White, and what university did she attend. We told him she only had a 3rd grade education. "Then, where did she learn Hebrew?" he asked. We told him that she never knew Hebrew, but was the most prolific female writer in history and that this was only one of her books.

He was amazed at her knowledge, saying that the information in this book (Patriarchs and Prophets) is Mishnaic. The Mishnah is part of the Hebrew scholarship. He said the Mishnah had only been translated into English 30 years ago and that only high-level rabbis knew this information. This is the history of my people and it is very, very accurate. He also said that you have to know Hebrew to be able to write like this because her sentence structure is not English, it's Hebrew...The rhythm, the meter, the arrangement of words and expressions are not English. He said it's as if she wrote in Hebrew and it was translated into English.

My family and I developed a strong friendship with Joe, his wife and son. As we studied the Bible and some Ellen White books together one day, he said, "I am convinced that Ellen White was inspired by the same source that inspired the Hebrew prophets. I want to become a Christian. I accept Jesus Christ as my Messiah." ...

...We were at his secret baptism in the Bear River above Sacramento on Saturday night Dec. 22, 1979. There were four of us present. He could not even tell his wife and son that he was now a Christian. As he came up out of the cold water praising God and singing to his new Messiah, he said, "I am now a completed Jew. I have now accepted the Old and New Testament and the Messiah that all Jewish prophets told us about!"

I was recently in Europe giving some workshops on art and some of my archeological work in the Middle East. I happened to meet a Jewish family from Israel. Shalom David was originally from Iraq and his wife from Chile.

They were now attending a college in Europe where I met with quite a bit of opposition to the writings of Ellen White. This Jewish family invited me to their home for Shabbat (Friday night supper.) It was a most enjoyable occasion as his wife and beautiful children sang and celebrated the arrival of Sabbath as Jews have done for thousands of years. I told them the story of Rabbi Kagan and he got very excited. He said, "The same thing happened to me! I would have rather burned the Bible then touch it! I wanted nothing to do with Christianity, but I also read the writings of Ellen White and the Spirit of God was on that woman. Her writings are as if she wrote in Hebrew.

You can definitely hear the Hebrew rhythm, meter and expressions in her books. I also believe she was inspired by the same source as the Hebrew prophets. And she has helped me fall in love with Jesus Christ, my Messiah."

...

Rabbi Ben told me that he has also had the same experience. He hated the Bible but that Ellen White brought him to Christ and helped him read the New Testament and fall in love with the Messiah. He also told me that he had gone to visit one of the most influential rabbis in America who is in his 90s who must remain unnamed. While in this rabbi's library talking, he was scanning the many, many books on his walls and there he saw the book "Patriarchs and Prophets" by Ellen White. Rabbi Ben asked him about it and where he had gotten it, "Why do you have this book by a Christian author?" The rabbi said, "This is a very authoritative source on our history."" - Jewish Rabbi claims Ellen White was a Jewish Mishnaic Writer - Destination Yisra'el
​

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

I doubt that. Both Daniel and John were actual prophets of God.

Do you believe that Prophets were to be in God's Church, as the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 1 Corinthians 1:6
​

So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 1:7

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Revelation 10:11

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Revelation 14:6

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:7
​

 

[Hentenza]

Do you believe that Prophets were to be in God's Church, as the gift of the Holy Spirit?

NT prophets? Sure.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

NT prophets? Sure.

Is Revelation 10, NT?

 

[Hentenza]

Is Revelation 10, NT?

Is Ellen White a prophet?

 

[Setyoufree]

Is Ellen White a prophet?

Well, let me weigh in.

Ellen White had light....However, she herself stated that she and the church (this is back around the late 1800s) had only "a glimmer" of the light that was to come. So it's not like EGW had all light. Light (truth) is progressive, but for her time I guess you could argue she had light.

For example, during that time the majority of Protestant Churches said that the moral law was nailed to the cross. In other words it was abolished.

Well, it wasn't. So she was ahead of her time. But then the SDA church made the mistake of over-emphasizing the law. This led to the 1888 GC where measures were taken to correct this over-emphasis. Sadly, it was widely rejected.

She viewed herself not as a prophet, but as a messenger. Here's her quote:

“I said that I did not claim to be a prophetess. I have not stood before the people claiming this title, though many called me thus. I have been instructed to say, ‘I am God's messenger, sent to bear a message of reproof to the erring and of encouragement to the meek and lowly.’”—The Review and Herald, Jan. 26, 1905, pp. 5, 6.

 

[Hentenza]

Well, let me weigh in.

Ellen White had light....However, she herself stated that she and the church (this is back around the late 1800s) had only "a glimmer" of the light that was to come. So it's not like EGW had all light. Light (truth) is progressive, but for her time I guess you could argue she had light.

For example, during that time the majority of Protestant Churches said that the moral law was nailed to the cross. In other words it was abolished.

Well, it wasn't. So she was ahead of her time. But then the SDA church made the mistake of over-emphasizing the law. This led to the 1888 GC where measures were taken to correct this over-emphasis. Sadly, it was widely rejected.

She viewed herself not as a prophet, but as a messenger. Here's her quote:

“I said that I did not claim to be a prophetess. I have not stood before the people claiming this title, though many called me thus. I have been instructed to say, ‘I am God's messenger, sent to bear a message of reproof to the erring and of encouragement to the meek and lowly.’”—The Review and Herald, Jan. 26, 1905, pp. 5, 6.

Eph. 2
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, [i]excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off [j]have been brought near [k]by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [l]barrier of the dividing wall, 15 [m]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [n]make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [o]by it having put to death the enmity.

Yes, the Jewish Law, the enmity, was abolished by Christ on the cross. But I do agree with you that Ellen was not a prophet of God, however, the message she brought was also tainted. Remember that she believed in the theology of Arius.

 

[Setyoufree]

Yes, the Jewish Law, the enmity, was abolished by Christ on the cross.

You've got to be kidding? Are you really that Biblically illiterate? Do you really want to go down this road?

First it's not a Jewish law. How utterly ridiculous. Paul clearly states that it condemns both the Jew and the Gentile. Would you like to see this, or do you know what a Bible looks like?

I mean I can't believe that this is still taught today....

 

[Hentenza]

You've got to be kidding? Are you really that Biblically illiterate? Do you really want to go down this road?

No I'm not kidding. I noticed that you did not address the verses I posted. Here is another.

Acts 15
4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and the elders came together to [b]look into this [c]matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that [d]in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

 

[Setyoufree]

Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we (Jews) any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; .... 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world (not just the Jew) maybe be guilty before God.