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Regarding your comments about Judas beng used by God ...
God did NOT cause Judas to betray. Judas would have betrayed the Lord even if he was not one of the 12 disciples. As a zealot who was trained in warfare, he would have spied on Jesus and reported to the authorities even if he did not know Jesus personally.
When the religious establishment plotted to kill Jesus, they offered a reward. Several people were tempted but they were afraid of the consequence upon themselves and family if they betrayed a teacher and miracle healer, whom thousands followed. Judas would be the one who decided to go ahead, in spite of certain fear and apprehension within himself.
Anyone who wanted to betray the Lord could have followed Jesus and see where He was. A large crowd greeted the Lord when He arrived at Jerusalem so it was easy to know that He and disciples were in the proximity. The opportuned time to arrest Him would be when the crowd was not around, otherwise an arrest in broad daylight would cause a riot. The betrayer could have keep an eye on where He was. Without Judas, someone else would have done it. But it was Judas who went ahead, while others were afraid or hesistant.
So why did Jesus choose Judas as disciple even though He knew? First reason is unconditional love, and second is damage control. If Judas was not with the twelve, he might have carried out his wilful act NOT according to God's timing. It is easier to manage Judas when he was around, instead of letting him be out there doing whatever he wanted at any time he chose.
Although Scriptures say Judas' deed fulfilled the Scripture, it doesn't mean God caused him to. The Bible is stating what Judas did, on his own free will.
Also: Some people believed that Judas was trying to force Jesus to push back against the Romans (after being arrested) by leading the Jews in a revolt. I believe this is quite a viable theory too even though the Scrptures did not say so. Back then, the disciples had to be careful about writing such stuff because it could anger the Roman authority, just like Jesus publicly avoid answering the question "are you the messiah?" because it was politically sensitive .
Speaking about the Serpent:In the beginning the serpent said,
"You shall surely not die."
Through Peter the satan said,
"This shall surely not happen to you."
Just what is the plot?
Did the satan not want him to die,
if he knew there would be a ressurection.
Thereby losing his power over lives.
IDK, but according to Hebrews 2:14,
it seems something is going on.
Speaking about the Serpent:
clearly, the God(s) were the ones who told a blatant untruth here.
Elohim even goes so far as to proclaim that what has happened is EXACTLY what the Serpent predicted ("The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.") Also, the fruit is NOT what caused death - keeping Man from eating from another miraculous tree did: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
I'm sure there are countless ages-old traditions in all Abrahamic faiths rationalising these according to various theologies, all trying to make sense of this whole thing.
But to me, it is perfectly obvious that the account is derived from a tradition that preceded all of these readings, telling a pretty straightforward story:
The gods created man as a lesser mirror image, lacking both the knowledge and the longevity of the deities whom they resembled. They tried to prevent man from achieving that state by prohibiting him from consuming the fruit that would imbue him with said knowledge, and when he gained it, they banished him before he could achieve full divinity through the tree of life. End of story.
It's completely in line with the kind of behaviour you see gods engage in in other creation myths.
The Babylonian deities drowned thousands because they found that mankind had become too numerous and loud. The Greek deities kept mankind huddled in miserable cold because they felt that fire was a divine privilege, etc.
Speaking about the Serpent:
clearly, the God(s) were the ones who told a blatant untruth here.
Elohim even goes so far as to proclaim that what has happened is EXACTLY what the Serpent predicted ("The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.") Also, the fruit is NOT what caused death - keeping Man from eating from another miraculous tree did: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
I'm sure there are countless ages-old traditions in all Abrahamic faiths rationalising these according to various theologies, all trying to make sense of this whole thing.
But to me, it is perfectly obvious that the account is derived from a tradition that preceded all of these readings, telling a pretty straightforward story:
The gods created man as a lesser mirror image, lacking both the knowledge and the longevity of the deities whom they resembled. They tried to prevent man from achieving that state by prohibiting him from consuming the fruit that would imbue him with said knowledge, and when he gained it, they banished him before he could achieve full divinity through the tree of life. End of story.
It's completely in line with the kind of behaviour you see gods engage in in other creation myths.
The Babylonian deities drowned thousands because they found that mankind had become too numerous and loud. The Greek deities kept mankind huddled in miserable cold because they felt that fire was a divine privilege, etc.
There was two major reasons for me. One was a desire to better understand the bible so I could be a better Christian. The other reason was learning epistemology. These two together brought me to the point of being convinced that the bible could not be true. God may exist, but the bible cannot be literally true and my reasons for my belief were simply flawed.Are there any members here who used to be Christians but became non-Christian?
If so, what was the major reason. How long were you a Christian before that? If you are an ex-Christian, have you ever thought about becoming a Christian again?
I put a poll thread up and if you feel I need to add more options, please inform me.
I pray to the God that I despise so much. Maybe I shouldn't, but....like I said, I don't even pray much anyway so....
I was a Christian from birth until about age 20 when I lost most of my faith, but I continued to have a tiny hope/fear that Christianity might be true for another 25 years? ... So 20 years and then another 25 years as a 90% ex-Christian and finally about 5 years as a more convinced ex-Christian
I often wish I could be a Christian again. I suspect there is a God that I have experienced at times, and he seemed happy to communicate through Christian symbols. So apparently God thinks Christianity is a fine religion. Unfortunately I no longer can use Christianity to pursue God, because I don't believe it. ... But Christianity was second nature to me. It is a shame to have lost a religion that worked for me simply because I read one too many Bart Ehrman books LOL
Are there any members here who used to be Christians but became non-Christian?
If so, what was the major reason. How long were you a Christian before that? If you are an ex-Christian, have you ever thought about becoming a Christian again?
I put a poll thread up and if you feel I need to add more options, please inform me.
Christianity | Description, History, Doctrines, & Traditions
The church and its history
The essence and identity of Christianity
At its most basic, Christianity is the faith tradition that focuses on the figure of Jesus Christ. In this context, faith refers both to the believers’ act of trust and to the content of their faith. As a tradition, Christianity is more than a system of religious belief. It also has generated a culture, a set of ideas and ways of life, practices, and artifacts that have been handed down from generation to generation since Jesus first became the object of faith. Christianity is thus both a living tradition of faith and the culture that the faith leaves behind. The agent of Christianity is the church, the community of people who make up the body of believers.
To say that Christianity “focuses” on Jesus Christ is to say that somehow it brings together its beliefs and practices and other traditions in reference to a historical figure. Few Christians, however, would be content to keep this reference merely historical. Although their faith tradition is historical—i.e., they believe that transactions with the divine do not occur in the realm of timeless ideas but among ordinary humans through the ages—the vast majority of Christians focus their faith in Jesus Christ as someone who is also a present reality. They may include many other references in their tradition and thus may speak of “God” and “human nature” or of the “church” and the “world,” but they would not be called Christian if they did not bring their attentions first and last to Jesus Christ.
You have to be born from above to be a Christian.I was raised as a Christian and found church boring and uninspiring. At 14 I stopped going to church and don't consider myself a christian. I never chose to join, I was born into it.
You have to be born from above to be a Christian.
If God saves you your life will change
You have no answer for the sin question. Without a saving faith you will die in your sins.My life has changed in many ways, huge growth and enrichment. I have no desire to be a Christian.
You have no answer for the sin question. Without a saving faith you will die in your sins.
It's this exact same argument that played a huge part in my leaving Christianity. Thanks for the reminder.You have no answer for the sin question. Without a saving faith you will die in your sins.
I was raised as a Christian and found church boring and uninspiring.
At 14 I stopped going to church and don't consider myself a christian.
I never chose to join,
I was born into it.
1) Being born into a Christian family does not make you a Christian, no matter how devout you or that family might be.
2) At the age of 14, all you did was stop going to Church, but you never were a Christian, so don't worry about it, you haven't walked away from Christianity at all, you never were a Christian to begin with.
3) As I keep saying, don't worry about it, you say yourself you never (CHOSE) to join, well then, you never became a Christian, end of story.
4) No, no, no, you were only born into a family which openly professed and practiced Christianity, but YOU yourself, you never CHOSE, or BECAME a Christian according to your very own account.
There is only so much skepticism and whatnot a believer can be exposed to until they have second thoughts about their faith..
I think you are choosing to split hairs and comment when we are essentially saying the same thing. So we are agreed then?
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