How many agree with this

[Rick Otto]

Sorry to see you go we are just now getting to the heart of the matter.

Didn't abraham's dad get pretty mad for about the same thing?

 

[TraderJack]

I think this is just another thread meant to bring down Catholicism.

No, this thread scrutinizes the claims of Rome to be infallibly led by God by scrutinizing that claim in light of Rome's so called "infallible" declarations that Roman Catholicism and Islam worship "one and the same" god, as opposed to the clear, unambiguous teaching of Christ and the Apostolic Tradition taught, recorded and preserved in the Scriptures and early church.

Doing so in accordance with the following Apostolic Tradition:

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

And

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I wonder if those under the RULE of the Roman church understand the ramifications of what is being clearly presented in this thread?

Haven't you read Unam Sanctum?

If you are Christian you are under the Rule of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[ScottBot]

With the additional exception that the backwoodseres are actualy God serving and the others are pretenders to God's own throne.
Do you eat what you dish out?

Good point.





Not.

 

[simonthezealot]

I think this is just another thread meant to bring down Catholicism.

Not so much bring down catholicism, rather resurrect truths.
If you guys can't accept being corrected and desire to continually follow WRONG teaching thats fine, but being here trying to lead others to it is only going to draw us people you guys like to label anti-catholics here, because we will stand up for scriptural truths and the salvation we share at any cost. You guys are unable to bend on what the church teaches so your only reason for being here is to promote their teachings...So it makes sense when you all get backed into a corner you run and hide.
I really like you Monica you speak with much more grace than I am able to...But c'mon this stuff is clear as day admit it...

 

[TraderJack]

JPII and Lumen Gentium both say that Roman Catholicism and Islam "adore"(ie-worship), "one and the same" god.

The document: "Nostra Aetate" states:

Quote:
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men.


Is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ the same as Allah?




The Biblical doctrine on the Trinity is correctly expressed in the Nicene and Athanasian creeds:

Quote:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father…We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life…
​

Quote:

Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.​

The importance of the doctrine of the Deity of Christ cannot be overstated. Unless the Son is truly God and 'one with the Father', Christians would be idolaters, for we regard Jesus as our Lord and Saviour and gladly worship him. If Jesus were not God, we would be found trusting in a creature for our salvation. But we confess that Jesus is not merely another prophet, but the Son of God. The Jews in hid day understood well what he meant by that title: 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God' (John 10:33). They did not believe his claim to Deity and condemned him to death for blasphemy. But Christians understand his claim and believe him; we trust and worship the Son of God; we live and die for our Lord. For in Christ we know God in truth:

Quote:
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life (1 John 5:20, 21)
​

The Son is the true God; any other god is an idol.

Islam vehemently rejects the doctrine of God as revealed in Holy Scriptures.

Islam denies the Trinity:

Quote:
Certainly they disbelieve those who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve (Sura 5:73).

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son (Sura 4:171).
​

Islam denies the Father and the Son:

Quote:
The Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them (Sura 9:29-30).
​

Quote:

It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified (Sura 19:35).​

Islam denies the Deity of Christ:

Quote:
The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was no more than God’s apostle (Sura 4).
​

Quote:

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is Christ the son of Mary (Sura 5:72).​

And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right (Sura 5:116).​

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary (Sura 5:17).​

Clearly then, the Quran denies:

1. The Trinity;
2. The Sonship of Christ;
3. The Deity of Christ.
​

The conclusion is inescapeable: the god of Islam is not the same God of the Holy Scriptures. Christians do not adore the same God as Muslims. Muslims are not merely ignorant of the Triune nature of God and the Deity of the Son: the Quran explicitly negates the doctrine of Christ as taught in the Bible. Rather than adoring God with us, Muslims pray to their god that he might destroy us because of our faith in Christ, the Son of God.

Quote:
'The Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them' (Sura 9:29-30)

Million dollar question:

How could Roman Catholics and Muslims worship the same God since Muslims deny the Trinity, the Sonship and the Deity of our Lord?



Quite frankly, the statement that Catholics and Muslims adore the same God is false. However, Roman Catholicism is a different story. I won't speculate on the motives of the Roman Catholic hierarchy for making this false assertion. However, it should be evident to every Roman Catholic who has placed their confidence in the infallibility and unchangeableness of the Roman magisterium, that in fact the Vatican's teaching on this matter has changed and that it is both fallible and in grievious error bordering on blasphemy.

 

[simonthezealot]

Haven't you read Unam Sanctum?

If you are Christian you are under the Rule of the Roman Catholic Church.

funny stuff Jack.
Simon pokes him in the eye.

 

[ScottBot]

I think this is just another thread meant to bring down Catholicism. That's the reason it was started. I'm through with it. Goodbye

What else is new. ALL GT THREADS LEAD TO ROME. Its the nature of the thing.

 

[TraderJack]

Haven't you read Unam Sanctum?

If you are Christian you are under the Rule of the Roman Catholic Church.

Is Unam Sanctum an ex cathedra document?

 

[simonthezealot]

Didn't abraham's dad get pretty mad for about the same thing?

Exactly...

 

[ScottBot]

Not so much bring down catholicism, rather resurrect truths.
If you guys can't accept being corrected and desire to continually follow WRONG teaching thats fine, but being here trying to lead others to it is only going to draw us people you guys like to label anti-catholics here, because we will stand up for scriptural truths and the salvation we share at any cost. You guys are unable to bend on what the church teaches so your only reason for being here is to promote their teachings...So it makes sense when you all get backed into a corner you run and hide.
I really like you Monica you speak with much more grace than I am able to...But c'mon this stuff is clear as day admit it...

Of course, because you on your own know better than 2,000 years of constant Gospel preaching by the Catholic Church. Can you give me a linnk to the corpus of your scholarly theological extrapolations so that I can have the blinders lifted from my eyes and see the error of the ways I have been following?

 

[TraderJack]

Is the god of Islam and Roman Catholicism one and the same god?

This would have been a good thread to make a poll on.

Have at it.

 

[ScottBot]

Is Unam Sanctum an ex cathedra document?

No one really knows. Its not like the Pope puts a header on the document and says "This proclamation is made ex cathedra."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course, because you on your own know better than 2,000 years of constant Gospel preaching by the Catholic Church. Can you give me a linnk to the corpus of your scholarly theological extrapolations so that I can have the blinders lifted from my eyes and see the error of the ways I have been following?

Are they just over one eye or 2

 

[ScottBot]

Are they just over one eye or 2

I am Catholic, so obviously I can't see the hands in front of my face.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

So what is else is new?

It doesn't affect this part...

together with us they adore the one, merciful God,

they believe in one God, we believe in one God...there is but one God...so logically.. we both worship God. But they don't KNOW Him, cause they need Christ for that, and they can't be saved without Christ. Doesn't mean that He doesn't accept their worship as to "one God". Of course He wants more for them though, He wants to bring them to His Son, and to eternal life...and to His Church. As the Catechism says. He also wants to free them from lies of the enemy that Christ is only a prophet, etc.

I've cited 4 Roman Catholic documents, including Lumen Gentium, according to Roman myth is "infallible" as the voice of God speaking.

Catholics do not believe that every single word the Pope ever says is from the Holy Spirit. Like when he buys tea or something he's not talking ex cathedra loll. Or when he gives interviews for that matter. And in that quote in the OP, the Pope wasn't teaching doctrine..or teaching anything for that matter. Why don't you first find out what Catholics believe and what the Church teaches and then criticize it brother. That is all. I'm seriously getting tired of this thread. I'm also getting tired of the misconceptions people have about Catholicism which they aren't willing to see, even when they're pointed out.

The sting of truth affects different people differently...

truth..yea right.

Sorry to see you go we are just now getting to the heart of the matter.

no we're going around and around in circles..

No, this thread scrutinizes the claims of Rome to be infallibly led by God by scrutinizing that claim in light of Rome's so called "infallible" declarations that Roman Catholicism and Islam worship "one and the same" god, as opposed to the clear, unambiguous teaching of Christ and the Apostolic Tradition taught, recorded and preserved in the Scriptures and early church.

Doing so in accordance with the following Apostolic Tradition:

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

And

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

why do you care if Catholicism is true or not?

no one is forcing you to agree with us.

There are like a thousand threads in GT doing this "scrutinizing" loll. I don't see the point. How would it be if we started doing the same?

As I said, I'm going now.

Bye

 

[mont974x4]

[/FONT]

Is the god of Islam and Roman Catholicism one and the same god?

as to the OP....
It certainly appears that pope jp2 thought so. And if he really beleived that then he was following a false god and not God.

 

[ScottBot]

This would have been a good thread to make a poll on.

Have at it.

Here are some recommended poll options I think everyone here can agree on.

1. Islam does not worship the same god as Jews and Christians and the Catholic Church is apostate.

2. Islam does worship the same God as the Jews and Christians and the Catholic Church is apostate.

3. I don't care what god Islam worships, all I know is that the Catholic Church is apostate.

4. Islam? What is that? (oh, and the Catholic Church is apostate.

5. I need a refill on my coffee before I answer. However, I am pretty sure the Catholic Church is apostate.

 

[simonthezealot]

Of course, because you on your own know better than 2,000 years of constant Gospel preaching by the Catholic Church.

By constant you of course mean constant changing going further and further from scripture...

Can you give me a linnk to the corpus of your scholarly theological extrapolations so that I can have the blinders lifted from my eyes and see the error of the ways I have been following?

Put down the catechism (never pick it up again) and pick up the bible (never set it down again) would be my suggestion...Start in Romans then John then Galatians.

 

[ScottBot]

as to the OP....
It certainly appears that pope jp2 thought so. And if he really beleived that then he was following a false god and not God.

Of course. See my poll recommendation above.