How many ages are there?

parousia70

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This is a reality for the church but not yet for all of mankind.
So you're saying that one day in our future even the unrepentant will share in Christ's victory?

What scripture teaches that?
 
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Bobgf

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So you're saying that one day in our future even the unrepentant will share in Christ's victory?

What scripture teaches that?
Sorry, you'll have to go to the soteriology forum to get an answer for that one (hint Isa 49:6)

Bob..
 
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parousia70

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Sorry, you'll have to go to the soteriology forum to get an answer for that one (hint Isa 49:6)

Bob..
So you personally make the claim but can't personally back it up with scripture?

Kind of goes against forum rules that state we are to explicitly support our views with scripture, especially when called to do so.

Weird.

Are you a Universalist?
 
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Bobgf

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So you personally make the claim but can't personally back it up with scripture?

Kind of goes against forum rules that state we are to explicitly support our views with scripture, especially when called to do so.

Weird.

Are you a Universalist?
LOL
 
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Soul_Tsunami

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This is what that passage means: PART I

Isaiah 49 speaks of a time of blessing for Israel. There is some difficulty in interpreting this passage because at times it seems that Israel is being addressed, and at other times it seems that a single person is being addressed. This person will help bring blessings back to Israel, so he must therefore be distinguished in some way from Israel.

In Isaiah 49:3, God addresses Israel: “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor.” However, by verse 6, the one addressed is an individual called the Servant of the Lord, and He will also restore Israel:

“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”
From the context, it is clear that “a light for the Gentiles” in Isaiah 49:6 is parallel to “my salvation . . . to the ends to the ends of the earth.” The light is spiritual light, corresponding to God’s “splendor” in verse 3. The ends of the earth are the Gentile nations—the people who live everywhere other than Israel.

The question is, how does Israel do this? How do they act as a light to the Gentiles?

Certainly, if Israel had been loyal to the Lord, other nations would have taken notice and perhaps been drawn to the Lord (see Deuteronomy 4:6). But that did not happen. So Isaiah speaks of a new situation. The Servant who is identified with Israel but also distinguished from Israel is the light instead. This is somewhat mysterious. However, this makes sense if the king of Israel is the one in view. The king is the representative of Israel, yet he is distinguished from Israel. He can do things for Israel but can also do things as Israel. But Isaiah does not reveal this king’s identity.

In the New Testament, the identity of the Servant, the King, and the Messiah is revealed in reference to the Isaiah passage:

“Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said, ‘Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel’” (Luke 2:25–32, ESV).

According to Simeon under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it is Jesus, the King of Israel, who is the glory of Israel and a light to the Gentiles.

Matthew 4:12–16 also applies to Jesus a similar idea from another passage in Isaiah:

“Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali—to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:

“‘Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles—the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned’” (Isaiah 9:1–2).

Galilee, both in the time of Isaiah and in the time of Christ, had a large Gentile population. By preaching there, Jesus was bringing light to the Gentiles.

Furthermore, Paul applies Isaiah 49:6 to himself and Barnabas as representatives of the King and preachers of the gospel. On the first missionary journey, they were rejected by the Jewish population in Pisidian Antioch: “On the following Sabbath, nearly the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy, and they blasphemously contradicted what Paul was saying.

“Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: ‘It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“I have made you a light for the Gentiles, to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.”’

“When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region” region” (Acts 13:44–49, BSB).

Thus, Paul and Barnabas, as Israelites and authorized representatives of the King of Israel, were also a fulfillment of Isaiah 49:6.


In summary, Israel is a light to the nations because Jesus, as the King of Israel, provided salvation for the nations (Gentiles) and then authorized His representatives to spread the good news throughout the world (see Matthew 28:18–20 and Acts 1:8).

In the end, Israel has to repent and acknowledge Jesus is Lord.

Zachariah 12:10 NKJV “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
 
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PART II

Israel’s Rejection of Christ​

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose​

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Present Condition of Israel​

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Footnotes​

  1. Romans 9:3 Or relatives
  2. Romans 9:28 NU the Lord will finish the work and cut it short upon the earth
  3. Romans 9:29 Lit., in Heb., Hosts
  4. Romans 9:31 NU omits of righteousness
  5. Romans 9:32 NU by works, omitting of the law
Source: Gotquestions.org
 
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Bobgf

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PART II

Israel’s Rejection of Christ​

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose​

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Present Condition of Israel​

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Footnotes​

  1. Romans 9:3 Or relatives
  2. Romans 9:28 NU the Lord will finish the work and cut it short upon the earth
  3. Romans 9:29 Lit., in Heb., Hosts
  4. Romans 9:31 NU omits of righteousness
  5. Romans 9:32 NU by works, omitting of the law
Source: Gotquestions.org


copy and paste, copy and paste, why should i reply to a copy and paste?
 
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parousia70

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I think Bob can't support his post because there is no scripture that says the unrepentant will share in Christs' victory.
That's my takeaway from his inability to support his claims as well. I'm certain our readers have drawn the same conclusion.
 
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Bobgf

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So you're saying that one day in our future even the unrepentant will share in Christ's victory?

What scripture teaches that?

That's a poor paraphrasing of what I said. A poor paraphrase can be putting words in my mouth which I did not mean and which may be untrue.

We were talking about the multitude of unsaved people, many of whom I believe will eventually be saved. If they're not saved in this life, then perhaps in the next life.

In this life, Jesus tells us that the majority of people will go by the way of destruction, and few will find the way leading to life.

Matt 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Does this mean that the majority of people will go to hell?

I don't think so. I think ultimately most of them will be saved.


Right now, the Lord is taking from the people for his name, ie the church.

Acts 15:14-17

14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.

15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up;

17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,



So, the Lord is taking out a people for his name now,
so that when he returns with his holy ones,
the rest of mankind may seek the Lord.


Bob..
 
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Soul_Tsunami

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Bob, read Revelations 14:16-19

The winepress represents all who do not come to know Christ during the tribulation periods. (All) will be trampled on.

In response to the angel's call to thrust His sickle into the harvest, the "one like a son of man" "seated on the cloud" (identified as Jesus) (Revelation 14:14) swung His sickle across the earth. Consequently, the earth was reaped. Not a single unbeliever anywhere on the planet will escape Jesus' judgment. The psalmist asked, "If you, O LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?" (Psalm 130:3). After sinning in the perfect environment God had placed them in, Adam and Eve tried to hide from God's presence by secluding themselves among the trees of the garden. But their attempt was unsuccessful, and God confronted them about their sin (Genesis 3:8–13). Likewise, when Christ thrusts in His sickle to judge the wicked, no sinner will be able to hide from Him.

Revelation 19:17–21 further describes this thorough and deadly reaping. The wages of sin have never been reduced. Romans 6:23 identifies those wages as death. The death is physical, spiritual, and eternal, but God has provided a remedy. Romans 6:23 also states that "the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
 
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Bobgf

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Bob, read Revelations 14:16-19

The winepress represents all who do not come to know Christ during the tribulation periods. (All) will be trampled on.

In response to the angel's call to thrust His sickle into the harvest, the "one like a son of man" "seated on the cloud" (identified as Jesus) (Revelation 14:14) swung His sickle across the earth. Consequently, the earth was reaped. Not a single unbeliever anywhere on the planet will escape Jesus' judgment. The psalmist asked, "If you, O LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?" (Psalm 130:3). After sinning in the perfect environment God had placed them in, Adam and Eve tried to hide from God's presence by secluding themselves among the trees of the garden. But their attempt was unsuccessful, and God confronted them about their sin (Genesis 3:8–13). Likewise, when Christ thrusts in His sickle to judge the wicked, no sinner will be able to hide from Him.

Revelation 19:17–21 further describes this thorough and deadly reaping. The wages of sin have never been reduced. Romans 6:23 identifies those wages as death. The death is physical, spiritual, and eternal, but God has provided a remedy. Romans 6:23 also states that "the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Another copy and paste.

You didn't even address my post.

Please provide me with some thoughts of your own.

Bob..
 
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Its written in Peter, 3 world ages. We're in the second earth age, flesh age. Jeremiah chapter 4, the Kadabal is world wide flood, it happened in first earth age. Dinasuars were wiped out. Why??. Satan led a rebellion against God in first earth age, one third of God's children followed satan. Lucifer wanted the Mercy seat. Pride was his downfall. John 3, every one must be born one time in the flesh. To choose to follow satan or Jesus. Revelation is 21, Godhead arrives to earth after judgement day. This is the third earth age. Its eternity. I documented this.
 
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I believe we are at the end of the church age...

Regarding the ages mentioned in Scripture, there are at least three and possibly four ages referenced in Scripture.
First, there is the age prior to Christ's appearing. Peter describes this age of waiting for Christ in the introduction to his first letter (1Peter 3-12):

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven — things into which angels long to look.


In verse 5, Peter refers to our salvation in Christ has been revealed in the "last time." In Greek, the words are "eschatos kairos," which translated literally means "the end of the age." The salvation we have now in Christ revealed is a salvation revealed in the last age. So, ages are measured, according to Scripture, with respect to God's plan of redemption.

The age before Christ's revealing is the first age, which then gave way to our current age called "the last times" or the Church age. Notice that Peter says in verses 10-12 that the prophets were serving us in that earlier age by revealing the truth concerning Christ and the age to come, things that angels long to look upon. Paul echoes this in his letter to the Colossians (Col 1:25-27):

Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


Other verses in the New Testament (including the ones you quoted) speak of yet another age to follow this one. Again, ages are defined according to events in God's plan of redemption, so this future age will complete God's plan of redemption. According to Scripture, we know this future age is the age of Christ's kingdom on Earth, the Millennial reign of Christ described in Revelation 20. This age will, in turn, give way to a fourth age called the Eternal Order. Paul describes this age in 1Corinthians 15:25-28:

For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.


Paul gives us a glimpse of what follows the 1,000-year reign of Christ when he describes the age to follow as a time when God becomes "all in all." John also gives a tantalizing description of this future age in Revelations 21 and 22.
 
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Bobgf

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I believe we are at the end of the church age...

Regarding the ages mentioned in Scripture, there are at least three and possibly four ages referenced in Scripture.
First, there is the age prior to Christ's appearing. Peter describes this age of waiting for Christ in the introduction to his first letter (1Peter 3-12):

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven — things into which angels long to look.


In verse 5, Peter refers to our salvation in Christ has been revealed in the "last time." In Greek, the words are "eschatos kairos," which translated literally means "the end of the age." The salvation we have now in Christ revealed is a salvation revealed in the last age. So, ages are measured, according to Scripture, with respect to God's plan of redemption.

The age before Christ's revealing is the first age, which then gave way to our current age called "the last times" or the Church age. Notice that Peter says in verses 10-12 that the prophets were serving us in that earlier age by revealing the truth concerning Christ and the age to come, things that angels long to look upon. Paul echoes this in his letter to the Colossians (Col 1:25-27):

Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


Other verses in the New Testament (including the ones you quoted) speak of yet another age to follow this one. Again, ages are defined according to events in God's plan of redemption, so this future age will complete God's plan of redemption. According to Scripture, we know this future age is the age of Christ's kingdom on Earth, the Millennial reign of Christ described in Revelation 20. This age will, in turn, give way to a fourth age called the Eternal Order. Paul describes this age in 1Corinthians 15:25-28:

For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.


Paul gives us a glimpse of what follows the 1,000-year reign of Christ when he describes the age to follow as a time when God becomes "all in all." John also gives a tantalizing description of this future age in Revelations 21 and 22.

Soul_Tsunami, you should at least give credit to your copy and paste source


However, your post is informative and I thank you for that.

Bob..
 
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parousia70

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I believe we are at the end of the church age...
1) The Church remains throughout ALL ages, World without end, Amen (Ephesians 3:21)

2) The Gospel age is everlasting (Revelation 14:6)
 
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