How many 2024 predictions have already failed? How many HAVE to fail before people realise?

tailgator said:

He comes during great tribulation.

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And.... you've missed the point entirely.
What happened to "peace, peace"?

keras said:

Videos that promote an agenda, such as AMill and a symbolic interpretation of Bible Prophecy, when a literal fulfilment is possible, are a seriously wrong teaching.
Explain how someone with a Phd has the truth of our future, when Jesus said it was hidden from those wise people? Matthew 11:25,

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Well - if you're going to read that verse literally - Jesus just said you and I can't know anything.
Only little children can. Not the middle aged and elderly!

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Sorry - you're out according to your literalistic reading of this verse.

However, if we get to the meaning of the verse - he's saying the only ones that can guess the correct end times tables are those who completely and utterly depend on him like children, go to Jerusalem, get Jerusalem fever, and enter a religious frenzy! Then they're 'child like' enough to know the end times tables!

Oh - except he didn't say that at all - it's actually about knowing the Father by trusting in the Son like little children! It's about being saved - not knowing end times tables.

So you've basically called someone I respect a charlatan and accused them of not even being saved, which is against forum rules.

Are you proud of yourself?

Now - what was that verse about pride - and being able to 'know things'?

keras said:

Jeremiah 8:9

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Oh yeah - cause Jesus came to earth early and wrote Jeremiah 8:9? You also believe he came to earth early and wrote on some golden tablets that turned up to Joseph Smith?

keras said:

It seems you don't realize how stupid it is to make such a comment.

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Ooooh, touchy!

keras said:

unless people treat the Bible as a book of fiction, then soon He will, once again; take action to correct the situation, which is now; as it was in the days of Noah.

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There is no way to predict the end.

As Jesus said in Matthew 24 and 25, it will be just like in the days of Noah - with everyone saying “Peace, peace” and making plans for the future. Marrying. Partying. And then suddenly destruction! The Lord Returns on Judgement Day! Jesus will return like a thief in the night; like the Master who catches the wicked servant in his guilt and executes him; like the Bridegroom who arrives to the banquet hall and locks out the maidens who were not prepared; like the wealthy investor who expects a return but takes back the gold off the lazy investor.

And worst of all - at the end of 25 - he will return on his throne, with his angels (exactly as we see at the end of Revelation 6!) - and BOOM! It’s Judgement Day for all eternity. Do not go through extra tribulations or 1000 years - do not collect $200.

The Lord could return on Judgement Day in 5 seconds, or 100,000 years! We just do not know how much patience the Lord has - or when That Day is going to happen. The Lord said so.

So - the real question? Are YOU going to see the bible as a work of fiction if there's no AOD by 2026?​

tailgator said:

Peace peace is before the coming of the Lord.
No peace when the Lord comes.

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Agreed - because it's straight into Judgement Day and Eternity! Straight away.
Peace, peace - then Judgement Day.

tailgator said:

While the watchmen of Israel are giving warning to the populance to repent and believe the gospel,they are persecuted throughout Israel as they do not worship the beast or it's image,nor do they receive it's mark.

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And then you go and insert your end-times-table - whatever verses you choose to quote out of context.

You're like "Peace, peace..." then [[insert whatever End-Times-Table cooked up from a poor understanding of how the genre of Apocalyptic Symbolism works - and without any hermeneutics: EG: Temple, AOD, Persecutions, Mark of Beast ,etc etc etc Armageddon etc....
Basically months and months and years and years of HISTORY continuing... End Times Table gotta Table I guess..... ]]....

THEN Judgement Day.

keras said:

Getting to what Jesus was really saying, it is clear that He has hidden the truths of the Prophetic Word from those who gain high qualifications, who teach and are generally respected as experts. This situation is quite apparent, as there is very little agreement among such people. They have plenty of adoring followers, though.

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Except you just missed it again.
It was all about those who would have faith in him - or harden their hearts using Pharisaic "Wisdom" to justify attacking Jesus instead.
It's about whether you are in the kingdom or out of it.
By quoting this verse, you basically accused people I respect of not having real saving faith.
Of not being Christian.
I've asked you for years to stop doing this - yet you keep doing it.

keras said:

Obviously Jesus did not mean actual little children, but allegorically;

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Oh really? The bible uses allegory and metaphor and different genres of writing?
I thought it was always literal - or something - whatever you say it is. On a given day. As you feel 'led' that day.

Except of course when you point out that Jesus being a slain lamb isn't literal - that Jesus having 7 horns and 7 eyes isn't literal. That's metaphor - for - 'reasons' - apparently. Whatever you say it is.

But hey - just don't include 'hermeneutics' or peer-reviewed theological reading amongst those 'reasons' or you'll rip Matt 11 out of context and attack people again!

keras said:

The Abomination of Desolation, Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thess 2:4, has not yet occurred. It will when the government Prophesied in Daniel 7:23-25, is established. When one King takes sole control and power, he will conquer the holy peoples and will sit in the holy Place.
I do not believe this will happen before about 2030.

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In tune with "Peace peace" - here is the Sydney Anglican Amil breakdown of how Matt 24 actually works.
This is not for you Keras - as we've been here done this to death - but for any lurkers reading through the list.

How Matt 24 works from an Amil non-futurist perspective:​

Matthew 24 is one of the hardest passages in the bible to put aside futurist presuppositions for a few reasons: futurists *want* the whole thing to be about the End Times because that gives them modern Israel and 1948 to start drawing up timetables around. It’s also complicated because Jesus is answering 2 questions - the end of that temple *then* the end of the world in the future.

Many futurists just project the whole chapter into the Last Days - and take Jesus descriptions of the Romans sacking Jerusalem and the temple in AD70 to be about some future, *still hypothetical* third temple. This will not do! Jesus was not *lying* to the disciples! For chapters and chapters he had been warning the disciples against the current system. He has wept over Jerusalem, his Jerusalem! He has ranted about the corrupt Pharisees, the fig tree that didn’t bear fruit, the overturning of the money changer’s tables, against the way they accepted the last few coins from the widow - “all she had to live on!”, and even said for those who had faith “this mountain falling into the sea” would not be the end of their forgiveness from God - even if the temple mountain fell into the sea!

If they were listening, they should have understood the temple’s time was up. But the disciples were gawking at the ‘large stones’ of the temple like country bumpkins in the big city. They’re still trusting in the might of the temple system. So Jesus warns them it’s all coming down! Within ‘this generation’. He’s still trying to get them thinking about relationship with God in gospel terms. They’re just not getting it yet!

But then Jesus switches from talking about ‘these things’ in front of them - the temple and the Romans destroying it within that generation - to the more distant end of the world on “That day” in verse 36. It’s going to be a while. “But about that day or hour no one knows,” and the parable of the thief, the foolish servant, and the ten maidens and their lamps all illustrate how vigilant and patient the church will have to be as we wait for “That day”.

OK then! The first half is all about the temple, and the second half from verse 36 is all about “That day”. This is confirmed in other ways as well. The destruction of the temple is predictable, local, and escapable. You can do something about it! When you see the Romans coming - run away! Flee! But “That day” will be universal, unpredictable, and totally inescapable. These are very different things.

It all seems neat and tidy - yeah right! Because the great wrinkle in dividing Matthew 24 around verse 36 is 27 to 30 - the “Lightning from east to west”, sun and moon darkened and heavens shaken stuff! That sounds pretty end-of-the-world!

So what are we to do with this? Let’s look at the GOSPEL OPTION which makes sense of the Old Testament use of this language. We need to **put aside** our preconceived ideas and systematically go through this apocalyptic symbolism and try and find what is being quoted from the Old Testament. This is a view Sydney Anglicans prefer.

**MATTHEW 24:29** **“Immediately after the distress of those days“ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’”**

= This sounds like the end of the world. But in the Old Testament this is the image used to describe a kingdom being burned to the ground.

**Isaiah 13:** "See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. **The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.”**

= Isaiah writes a prophecy against Babylon where God brings Medes and Persians to strike down Babylon. But, typical of Hebrew hyperbolic symbolism - listen to this language!

**Isaiah 34:** “All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree.”

= is a more universal judgment against all God's enemies - the picture of Edom. It has more graphic and physical battle language mixed in with the stars falling.

**Joel 2:** “Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.”
= describes a vast army of the Lord bringing justice - and uses similar language.

Then what do we make of the next bit of Matt 24?

**30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.**

People are geographically challenged with the direction the Son of Man is travelling. He's not travelling TO the Earth here, but back TO the father!

**Check Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.**

People always think this is the Lord coming back to earth. What if this is the Lord Jesus, the Son of Man, going back into heaven and being welcomed by the Ancient of Days, God the Father, after dying for us all? Isn't that just the appropriate image for God the Son returning as the "Son of Man" who was killed and now lives? That’s when he was given an eternal dominion - the church. It’s the message of Revelation, that although bad things happen, Jesus reigns. Indeed according to Ephesians we are reigning in heaven with him now - even as our bodies remain here on earth.

Back to Matthew 24:**31 “And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”**

The word in the Greek is angelos, and can be translated as Angels, but can also mean *messengers.* This is why it’s the GOSPEL view - it's all about Jesus death and resurrection, and then the apostles gathering in the elect with the gospel message! Check these uses of "angelos" which is not angels but messengers or even spies!

James 2:25: "In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the SPIES and sent them off in a different direction?" (NIV, ESV says "messengers".)

Luke 9:52: "And he sent MESSENGERS ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him."

So it all fits. Jesus is talking about his triumphant resurrection and welcome into heaven to sit by the right-hand of God where HE will reign from during this gospel era as the disciples go out to the ends of the earth with the new message of salvation that replaces the temple.

If I haven't explained it enough, here are Reformed Sydney Anglican Ministers doing a better job.

The first half of Matthew 24 - the readings start at 22:00 minutes in and then the talk.


The second half of [Matthew 24](https://www.christianforums.com/bible/matthew/24/) - readings start at 21 minutes in.


(Also, please do not text that mobile number questions as it is only for during the service.)

The Sydney Anglican view is controversial - but this paper compares this and DA Carson and other theologians on this passage.

tailgator said:

Did you know in 2003 that 45 would move the US embassy to Jerusalem ?
I did.

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Can you prove this?

Also - if Trump does not get elected - what will you say then?

Also - I thought most end-times tables these days had a GLOBAL antichrist empire that would imprison Christians and torture them etc. There are stacks of futurists here that would disagree it only happens in Israel!

So it seems not only did you miss a vital Amil interpretation of Matthew 24 (even if you ultimately disagree with it) - but you are out of step with all the other futurists here. But here's the thing. I'm 99% certain all futurists are wrong.

tailgator said:

I don't need to prove anything to anyone.Besides,I just read about it in the bible so it's not like I had a vision or anything.
I read the Bible alot and I watch things happen.

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If you read the Bible a lot - what does it say about those who make false predictions or prophecies?

You're effectively saying that the Lord says xyz will happen. At least it is from his Word - not personal subjective prophecy which I am always incredibly sceptical about. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

But then if or when those things do not happen.... how do you apply those verses that discuss false predictions to yourself?

tailgator said:

If I were to say the prediction that Trump would move the embassy to Jerusalem and it didn't happen then I would say my interpretation was wrong.
I'm trying to interpret someone else's prediction or prophecy.

If I make another prediction after Trump is elected,it's just my interpretation of what I'm reading.
Can I be wrong?Sure

There is one thing which took me ten years to try to understand.Id say I'm probably right In my thoughts but I'm still not 100 percent sure about.
I'm sure I will know when it happens though.

I had made the prediction in 2017 on another board but I had stated my prediction could be wrong.It will still be interesting to see one way or the other.I will have interpreted the prophecy correctly or I will know what it ment when I see it fulfilled.

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I have no idea what you're saying here.

But I do have an idea about what your idea is on "Peace peace" - and you manage to throw in a whole bunch of what you claim are biblically prophesised violent episodes that should be predictable to anyone reading the bible (the way you do).
In other words - NOT peace.
NOT sudden and unpredictable.

But VIOLENT and - because you say anyone reading the bible should predict it - PREDICTABLE.

So NOT at all like the "Days of Noah".

Matthew 24: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man . For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."