How long does it take to make a decision on what is true doctrine?

JohnB445

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
2. Is Predestination True?
3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.
 

Grip Docility

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
2. Is Predestination True?
3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.
1 John 2:27, John 5:39
 
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HTacianas

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
2. Is Predestination True?
3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.

1. The gifts of the Holy Spirit you mentioned may or may not be found here and there within the Church. If they are they are extremely rare. And they are not a thing someone can simply perform like a card trick at will.

2. If you read the bible front to back and back to front you will come to the conclusion that God has predestined Himself to have a people.

3. Absolutely not. The idea of a "pre-tribulation rapture" was unheard of until around 1840 or so. There is nothing in the bible or the history of the Church that even implies such a thing.
 
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BobRyan

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
2. Is Predestination True?
3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.
Those are serious doctrines to be sure. But the good news is that the Bible is very clear on what it teaches regarding them.

But you need to stick to a few simple rules.
1. Don't rely on "The void of what the text does not say" - many people are tempted to use "extreme inference" to get the text to "mean" what they wish it to say. Try to avoid that.
2. Make a list of texts that speak to the topic you are trying to learn about. Primary texts will come right out and say what the doctrine is teaching and will not contradict other texts when taken in context.
3. Be very reluctant to "ignore this or that part of the Bible" that speaks to the topic you are looking into.
4. Don't interpret the Word of God by the tradition of man.

IN Mark 7:7-13 - Jesus condemns the idea of changing God's Word to fit man's tradition.
 
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BobRyan

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Look at 1 Cor 12, Ephesians 4 -- for a good first-pass at the gifts of the Spirit.

Remember that in Acts 1 when they are trying to pick an Apostle to replace Judas - the provide some rules - by which the selection can be made and those rules pretty much negate anyone alive today as being an original Apostle.

In In 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 the gifts are listed in order. In Eph 4 we are told they are given until "we all attain to the fullness of the measure that belongs to Christ " (the second coming)
 
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BobRyan

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Here is the first big hint in the teaching of Christ about the rapture and the tribulation

Matt 24:
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky (the appearing of Christ) with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (i.e. rapture)
 
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Joseph G

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
Yes. Necessary to be valuable to the Lord? No. Appreciate what gifts one has and that not every believer has all the gifts in every area. However be assured that we ALL have Spiritual gifts.

1 Corintians 23:1-41 NIV

"1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to dumb idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no-one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, ‘Jesus be cursed,’ and no-one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.

4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptised by one Spirit so as to form one body – whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free – and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14And so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15Now if the foot should say, ‘Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,’ it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, ‘Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,’ it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I don’t need you!’ And the head cannot say to the feet, ‘I don’t need you!’ 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honourable we treat with special honour. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honour to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honoured, every part rejoices with it.
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts."

As for me, I consider myself immensely blessed to be a little toe in the Body Of Christ. I am deeply grateful to my Lord Jesus to be trusted with what gifts He has bestowed upon me for whatever mission He has planned for me. Preach to millions or sweep the joint out, I aspire to be prepared at a moment's notice to do either if I'm convicted that He is the one sending. If I seek to be servant of all each day, then I am rewarded with peace that I am operating in His will.

2. Is Predestination True?
Yes. And so is free will. If one can't reconcile the two in their mind, then take it on faith that God does and trust that, as in all things, He knows EXACTLY what He is doing. Even Billy Graham often confessed that he didn't understand everything in Scripture. God rewards testifying with humility.

Our primary job is this, above all other considerations:

1 Coronthians 1:23-30 KJV

" 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

I have absolutely no idea. Nor do I care. It is an absolute non-essential. Not speaking for anybody else, but here is where I am after 36 years of walking with the Lord. In all those years of researching and debate, I concluded that it was just not my gift to understand nor be authorized to preach anything of this nature with full conviction. For those that do, I am perfectly content not to compete with them and willing to accept that, in this area, I am fine with considering myself, and for others to consider me as a weaker brother.

I am too old, and my time here perhaps too short, to screw around wringing my hands over the fact that I don't know everything. The Lord has given me plenty to do, and His promise to bear much fruit through me - fruit that will remain long after I'm gone - is too precious to be diminished by granting one second of my time to something that will hinder my task for acheiving as much instead of bolstering it.

Pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib, I dunno. Spared from the tribulation, or destined to go through it, I dunno. Tagged for martyrdom or dropping dead suddenly or a long, lingering painful death or a long healthy life until dying peacefully in my sleep, I dunno. Being here to witness His return or dying without seeing it, I dunno.

All I know to do is devote myself each day to this command from the Lord:

Matthew 24:44 ESV

"Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

And...

Luke 18:6-8 NIV

" 6 The Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.

Just my two cents, friend. I've said a prayer that between you and the Holy Spirit that He will, in His time, bring to you to a point of conviction and peace on any matter and that, along with all our brothers and sisters, you will be blessed to operate with maximum efficiency to produce much fruit in your lifetime, fruit that will remain according to His will.

John 15-16 NIV

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you."

God bless, John!

biblegateway.com
 
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BobRyan

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JohnB445 said:

3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?
I have absolutely no idea. Nor do I care. It is an absolute non-essential.
That only works if God never said anything about it.

But when God tells us something -- about the end of all things -- then just like the case of Noah ... it always matters.
 
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Richard T

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Gifts are in operation, they have not ceased. Some try to fleshly imitate them though and so discernment is required. You do not need the gifts to be saved but they sure do help others that are in need. Best way to discern is to go to a church where the gifts are really moving. If it is God you will know.
 
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com7fy8

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
Yes, and you can check 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 about this. And Romans 12 with 1 Peter 4:9-10 about how every gift ministers God's own grace.

People, of course, have different ideas about this. So, in any case, a real gift will minister God's grace which is God in us (Philippians 2:13) working to change our character to be like Jesus so we love like Jesus and are pleasing to our Father like Jesus is so pleasing.

2. Is Predestination True?
You can check Romans chapter nine and see what you discover.

3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?
The Rapture is true, in any case. You can consider Matthew 24:29-31. I have not found any other scripture which says when Jesus will return in timing with the greatest tribulation ever. Commentators, though, have different ideas.

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.
I would say don't let any issue keep you stuck from reading the whole bible. Any scripture can be used by God to help us become like Jesus and love like Jesus.
 
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timewerx

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There are 2 big doctrines I haven't figured out yet.

1. Are the Holy Spirit gifts still available today like healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy, and more?
2. Is Predestination True?
3. Is the pre-tribulation rapture true?

These are what I want to figure out, I have not finished reading the entire Bible because I'm stuck on those 3 doctrines.

Your list should be a lot bigger.

And how long? It takes a lifetime.

The attitude of treasure hunters is they're always after bigger treasure.

The Kingdom of God like a treasure but you can't really find all of it in just one go. You can't unlock all the levels, all the stages in just one day (in gaming lingo). The process takes a lifetime.

"Receive the Kingdom of Heaven" as little child. For many Christians, they do the journey to get saved, have eternal life, have mansions in heaven, maybe sing forever. That's their "treasure". But to a child's mind, the journey is the treasure.
 
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