How it perhaps really happened

[Tjufsen]

I`ve always been a caring person myself, and recently a friend of mine, let me down again, for the third time, sort of denied me, I`ve been popular since I`m a little funny, so people been hanging around me, just like diciples around Jesus, he also got denied from his friends, the difference perhaps, is that Jesus told stories to get popular, today we have different things we can do to get popular, but in his days, he only could tell stories probably, so he said he was son of God, because everyone is anyways, what he couldn`t do I think, was to make miracles since that needs an supernatural ability, which humans don`t have, so it`s probably made up by people who liked him, or the idea of him, and I think he was a little depressed also and wanted to die, like most famous people today, so they devote their lives to the thing that they do, so to make himself more popular, he said he`d die for your sins, we`ve never really seen Jesus since he died, so if we add all this up, and the fact that he died and never shown himself again, was he just a guy who cared alot about people, he`s the most famous person ever they say, so that would have taken alot of effort?

 

[BobRyan]

I`ve always been a caring person myself, and recently a friend of mine, let me down again, for the third time, sort of denied me, I`ve been popular since I`m a little funny, so people been hanging around me, just like diciples around Jesus, he also got denied from his friends, the difference perhaps, is that Jesus told stories to get popular, today we have different things we can do to get popular, but in his days, he only could tell stories probably, so he said he was son of God, because everyone is anyways, what he couldn`t do I think, was to make miracles since that needs an supernatural ability, which humans don`t have, so it`s probably made up by people who liked him, or the idea of him, and I think he was a little depressed also and wanted to die, like most famous people today, so they devote their lives to the thing that they do, so to make himself more popular, he said he`d die for your sins, we`ve never really seen Jesus since he died, so if we add all this up, and the fact that he died and never shown himself again, was he just a guy who cared alot about people, he`s the most famous person ever they say, so that would have taken alot of effort?

1. All of his disciples (except John) were killed for their claims about seeing the risen Christ -- so they went to their graves penniless and faithful claiming they had seen the risen Christ rather than simply saying "ok -- I guess I never did see Jesus alive after that".
2. They attempted to kill John for claiming to see Jesus -- but Jesus would not let him die so he was exiled to Patmos.
3. Saul attempted to kill Christ's disciples - then he too saw the risen Christ and so became a follower as "Paul" - right in the middle of his campaign to wipe out Christians.
4. Christ appeared to many people over a period of 40 days after His resurrection as we see in Acts 1 and in 1 Cor 15.
5. All the New Testament Bible writers claim they saw or new someone who saw the risen Christ and that includes 11 of the original 12 disciples (Judas committed during the trial of Christ)
6. Roman soldiers ran away from the tomb on Sunday AM and Jews who opposed Christ admitted the tomb was empty on Sunday
7. In Matt 16 Jesus predicts his death and resurrection - and Peter says this is a horrible idea and tries to rebuke Christ - so then Christ rebukes Peter for not submitting to the plan that he (Jesus) would be killed.
8 All the disciples of Christ are hiding in fear of the Jews and were in discouragement over the death of Christ as of Sunday morning.
9. When some women return from the tomb on Sunday morning claiming Christ had risen from the grave - the disciples refused to believe it.
10. Luke 24 informs us of their discouragement during the day on Sunday but then they all became convinced that Jesus was alive by Sunday evening.

All of that very hard to "fake" while someone is still dead.

post-death legends about a dead person do not start to appear until at least 70 - 100 years after the fact of their death when all eyewitnesses have passed away - unlike the case with the first century Bible writers reports.

 

[Tjufsen]

1. All of his disciples (except John) were killed for their claims about seeing the risen Christ -- so they went to their graves penniless and faithful claiming they had seen the risen Christ rather than simply saying "ok -- I guess I never did see Jesus alive after that".
2. They attempted to kill John for claiming to see Jesus -- but Jesus would not let him die so he was exiled to Patmos.
3. Saul attempted to kill Christ's disciples - then he too saw the risen Christ and so became a follower as "Paul" - right in the middle of his campaign to wipe out Christians.
4. Christ appeared to many people over a period of 40 days after His resurrection as we see in Acts 1 and in 1 Cor 15.
5. All the New Testament Bible writers claim they saw or new someone who saw the risen Christ and that includes 11 of the original 12 disciples (Judas committed during the trial of Christ)
6. Roman soldiers ran away from the tomb on Sunday AM and Jews who opposed Christ admitted the tomb was empty on Sunday
7. In Matt 16 Jesus predicts his death and resurrection - and Peter says this is a horrible idea and tries to rebuke Christ - so then Christ rebukes Peter for not submitting to the plan that he (Jesus) would be killed.
8 All the disciples of Christ are hiding in fear of the Jews and were in discouragement over the death of Christ as of Sunday morning.
9. When some women return from the tomb on Sunday morning claiming Christ had risen from the grave - the disciples refused to believe it.
10. Luke 24 informs us of their discouragement during the day on Sunday but then they all became convinced that Jesus was alive by Sunday evening.

All of that very hard to "fake" while someone is still dead.

post-death legends about a dead person do not start to appear until at least 70 - 100 years after the fact of their death when all eyewitnesses have passed away - unlike the case with the first century Bible writers reports.

Yes, they seemed very devoted, interesting read, learned alot

 

[Tjufsen]

1. All of his disciples (except John) were killed for their claims about seeing the risen Christ -- so they went to their graves penniless and faithful claiming they had seen the risen Christ rather than simply saying "ok -- I guess I never did see Jesus alive after that".
2. They attempted to kill John for claiming to see Jesus -- but Jesus would not let him die so he was exiled to Patmos.
3. Saul attempted to kill Christ's disciples - then he too saw the risen Christ and so became a follower as "Paul" - right in the middle of his campaign to wipe out Christians.
4. Christ appeared to many people over a period of 40 days after His resurrection as we see in Acts 1 and in 1 Cor 15.
5. All the New Testament Bible writers claim they saw or new someone who saw the risen Christ and that includes 11 of the original 12 disciples (Judas committed during the trial of Christ)
6. Roman soldiers ran away from the tomb on Sunday AM and Jews who opposed Christ admitted the tomb was empty on Sunday
7. In Matt 16 Jesus predicts his death and resurrection - and Peter says this is a horrible idea and tries to rebuke Christ - so then Christ rebukes Peter for not submitting to the plan that he (Jesus) would be killed.
8 All the disciples of Christ are hiding in fear of the Jews and were in discouragement over the death of Christ as of Sunday morning.
9. When some women return from the tomb on Sunday morning claiming Christ had risen from the grave - the disciples refused to believe it.
10. Luke 24 informs us of their discouragement during the day on Sunday but then they all became convinced that Jesus was alive by Sunday evening.

All of that very hard to "fake" while someone is still dead.

post-death legends about a dead person do not start to appear until at least 70 - 100 years after the fact of their death when all eyewitnesses have passed away - unlike the case with the first century Bible writers reports.

Did they remove the body to make it a legend, or was the stones in front of it too heavy?

 

[ldonjohn]

He came out of that tomb before the stone was removed just like he said he would do. The stone was removed to show that Jesus was not in the tomb. He was raised form the dead and his body was changed to a glorified body that could pass through the walls of the tomb.
Another comment I have about your questions is that the stories Jesus told were not meant to make him popular; they were used to help people understand the truth of his teachings. If you read much of the gospels, you would see that Jesus was very unpopular among some people even to the point that they wanted to kill him.
My final thought for you is that although Jesus died, he arose from the grave and is alive today. You can talk to him if you wish, and he can be found in the bible, the Word of God. He is the Word of God.

 

[Sir Joseph]

I`ve always been a caring person myself, and recently a friend of mine, let me down again, for the third time, sort of denied me, I`ve been popular since I`m a little funny, so people been hanging around me, just like diciples around Jesus, he also got denied from his friends, the difference perhaps, is that Jesus told stories to get popular, today we have different things we can do to get popular, but in his days, he only could tell stories probably, so he said he was son of God, because everyone is anyways, what he couldn`t do I think, was to make miracles since that needs an supernatural ability, which humans don`t have, so it`s probably made up by people who liked him, or the idea of him, and I think he was a little depressed also and wanted to die, like most famous people today, so they devote their lives to the thing that they do, so to make himself more popular, he said he`d die for your sins, we`ve never really seen Jesus since he died, so if we add all this up, and the fact that he died and never shown himself again, was he just a guy who cared alot about people, he`s the most famous person ever they say, so that would have taken alot of effort?

Tjufsen, your many claims about Jesus sound like the usual ones posted routinely by skeptics on various forums and atheist websites. Problem is, they counter historical records from both Biblical and secular sources.

People naturally tend to accept any claim they read or hear that supports their preferred world view. I'd suggest that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is too important to not assess the matter more honestly.

For a good summary of the issue that you've grossly misrepresented, I recommend this excellent video sermon from Lee Strobel, a famous atheist who became a Christian after investigating the true evidence for Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

Did they remove the body to make it a legend, or was the stones in front of it too heavy?

The Roman guard at the tomb did not say they fought with disciples trying to steal the body