How is your self image?

[razzelflabben]

I'm not sure if this belongs in apologetics but I do want a Biblical perspective beyond the usual...

Here is the story behind the question. I was taught that I have no value, even that as a female I have no real value. When our son died, someone close to the family tried to reduce him to a monetary value. Our own daughter is suffering right now with low self esteem from a sin that was done to her. Well, a few weeks ago she brought home a very wonderful christian young man (just friends at the time, now dating, yeah) who was and is LOVING her with the Love of Christ and that is an amazing thing to watch because it is restoring to her her value.

When I studied marriage, I looked at Isaiah 53 how Christ loved the Church and compared that to Prov. 31 the wife of noble character and I discovered something very interesting. Christ's revelation of who He is and how He loves, restored to His bride (the Church) a value that sin had stolen from her.

Now before I ask my question, let me make something clear. I see earning salvation as something very different from value and so it will be important to our communication to understand the difference.

Now, the question...what are some practical ways we can find in scripture to restore to one another the value that sin has taken away, especially for those like myself who have been taught from the youngest of ages that they have no value. I will also warn you that I will not be easy to convince so don't even try....I can make a valid excuse for everything you present that is the old usual arguments. IOW's this will challenge what you have been taught to say.

 

[Greg J.]

Our only genuine value comes from the fact that God loves us. We were important enough for Jesus to die for us. Now it is no longer the "old man" that lives, but we are reborn in unity with Christ. You won't find a spiritually solid way to uphold the idea that we, in and of ourselves, are worthy and should feel good about ourselves. Our "old man" had no value, and in fact deserved punishment, but a Christian has the same value as Jesus. He is the firstborn of many brothers. Understanding God's inherent worth is a more difficult study than finding verses that basically say, because of God we are priceless. You can Google up collections of these kinds of verses. People go to them during dark times when it feels like God has rejected them. The truth is that we really are of inestimable value and God will never leave us or forsake us. He will help us with everything. We need to love him in return to nurture the power that is available through that relationship.

 

[razzelflabben]

Our only genuine value comes from the fact that God loves us.

first, thank you for your response there is some really good stuff here if you ask me, but also a couple of things you seem to miss from the standpoint of someone who has been taught to hate self.

First off, amen...but our genuine value isn't only that God Loves us but also that He made us in His image. Sin destroys or mares that image, but it is a value that is built into us. As I have struggled with my own self image I have wondered if anyone would come to my rescue if say I was buried in an earthquake. In my mind, everyone would say, it's just Razz, leave her die. In fact, in my mind, if I am not worthy of a parents love, a siblings love, a husbands love, a churches love, even a childs love, what am I? But God says that I am of great enough value to be rescued and honestly most people would join rescue efforts because of the value that is created within us when God created man.

that being said, God wants to restore that image but it is there by the very creation of the living God.

We were important enough for Jesus to die for us.

this is the ultimate show of Love and value, but I know from experience that it alone isn't enough to convince most with low self image of their value. In fact, I have myself as I struggled with this in my life, questioned how anyone could find their value in this when Christ didn't just die for me, but for all of us. That would mean that man kind has value, which ultimately doesn't mean I do.

Now it is no longer the "old man" that lives, but we are reborn in unity with Christ.this week I have been struggling with my own value. I asked my husband last night or the night before (can't remember now) how we can know if we are living in the new man? After almost 50 years of living for Christ, I still cannot be sure that I am living a life that is worthy of the titles He bestows upon us upon salvation. We strive for, we long to serve, but in the end of the matter how can we be sure when the world and often times even the church tells us that we are worthless, of no value.

Now, when I ask this question understand that I would serve God even if He said to me (I know He won't) "depart from me"...I have had enough of a glimpse of God to know that I would serve Him with my last breath no matter the cost. The best we can do is examine ourselves with sober judgement...but the realization that we still fall once in a while removes value from us. That is what sin does.

You won't find a spiritually solid way to uphold the idea that we, in and of ourselves, are worthy and should feel good about ourselves. Our "old man" had no value, and in fact deserved punishment,

now, from someone who has been intimate with self loathing I will take objection with you on this matter. You see, our value has nothing to do with what we deserve. where it is true that we earn eternal torment it is not true that our value rests in that alone for if it did, Christ would never have come in the first place. Christ saw beyond the sin, He saw something that many of us cannot see because of sin...He saw the beauty of His creation and the Love that wanted it restored. Our value is not in righteousness, that is our restoration, our value is in being able to be restored.

but a Christian has the same value as Jesus. He is the firstborn of many brothers. Understanding God's inherent worth is a more difficult study than finding verses that basically say, because of God we are priceless. You can Google up collections of these kinds of verses. People go to them during dark times when it feels like God has rejected them. The truth is that we really are of inestimable value and God will never leave us or forsake us. He will help us with everything. We need to love him in return to nurture the power that is available through that relationship.

amen...but the question is how to practically show each other that they are of enough value to the Christ as well as us to come and be restored to the image of the living God.

Quick story...and just to be clear I am talking out loud trying to understand some of this myself...people come to me, they talk to me. I can't explain it, I can't tell you why. What I do know is that people have said things like "your easy to talk to" "you seem to understand" "no one Loves like you" "we always feel like we belong" "your the only person I can trust" "your my only true friend" etc. These are all comments that suggest that I am doing something to show them worth/value which entices them to come to God and seek His restoration. But how does that happen? What could I possibly be doing different that these people see value in themselves through me but not others? Etc. so many questions and so few answers...I am no one that anyone should see any good in, as I said unworthy of even a parents love or a churches love and yet I am given value by comments like the above...how does that happen? What is there in me that anyone should find value? Why do so many find me of no value when others find me of great value? It isn't enough here to say Jesus, there has to be some specifics that we can include in our discussion....for example, others have also said to me "you always point us to God" that would be a practical that not everyone would respond positively to, but to some, they understand their value because of Christ and therefore that is to restore value to them.

 

[Greg J.]

first, thank you for your response there is some really good stuff here if you ask me, but also a couple of things you seem to miss from the standpoint of someone who has been taught to hate self.

I have had an overwhelming abundance of experiences to transform me to have something like what you call self-hate for several decades. It is IMO the root of mental illness and probably an array of physical problems, too. It still is reinforced regularly.

First off, amen...but our genuine value isn't only that God Loves us but also that He made us in His image. Sin destroys or mares that image, but it is a value that is built into us. As I have struggled with my own self image I have wondered if anyone would come to my rescue if say I was buried in an earthquake. In my mind, everyone would say, it's just Razz, leave her die. In fact, in my mind, if I am not worthy of a parents love, a siblings love, a husbands love, a churches love, even a childs love, what am I? But God says that I am of great enough value to be rescued and honestly most people would join rescue efforts because of the value that is created within us when God created man.

Being made in his image was a product of his love. However, sin didn't just destroy our self-image, it destroyed our inherent value. The evidence is that we're condemned apart from Christ.

that being said, God wants to restore that image but it is there by the very creation of the living God. this is the ultimate show of Love and value, but I know from experience that it alone isn't enough to convince most with low self image of their value. In fact, I have myself as I struggled with this in my life, questioned how anyone could find their value in this when Christ didn't just die for me, but for all of us. That would mean that man kind has value, which ultimately doesn't mean I do.

God wants to give us a rebirth, because what we became from sin could not be saved. We are reborn in Christ. I totally agree that knowledge of this fact doesn't transform a person out of low self-esteem. What does transform is sanctification, which in practice, is accomplished through abiding in Christ.

People say, and it is true, that if you were the only fallen person on earth, Jesus would still have died for you. It is an attempt to get across how much God really loves YOU. His love is so enormous that we are actually incapable of grasping it. Imagine in your mind the greatest possible ways you could be loved—and God loves you more than that. All the forces of darkness are working against a person uncovering a deeper faith in how much God loves them. It is the #1 thing that Satan is driven to prevent. That should tell you something about how great God's love is for you.

We need to persist in holding onto and fighting for the truth of God's love for us. Memorize verses and use them to fight the false thoughts and reasoning. You'll probably spend a lot of time fighting to eject lies from you mind. It may take a while to experience what it is doing for you, but it is an implied command (Philippians 4:8) and God will help you.

This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. (1 John 3:19-20, 1984 NIV; also see v. 16)

That verse tells us that God knows the Truth about us, which is such that we can rest in his presence even when we feel or think we are guilty/condemned/worthless. And a few verses earlier, John writes,

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 John 3:16, 1984 NIV)

The spiritual disciplines, particularly obedience, bring the power of God for transformation such that we experience more of the truth. Knowing Jesus better is the cure for the terribly false convictions that come with low self-image.

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18, 1995 NASB)

Being reborn in Christ automatically glorifies you. We're being transformed from glory into glory.

I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11, 1984 NIV)

You are greater than every person in the Old Testament was when they were alive. You are greater than Moses was, greater than Elijah, King David, and Abraham was. This is because it is no longer "you" who live (the "old man"), but a reborn version of you merged with the Holy Spirit ("new creation") (2 Corinthians 5:17).

I have been crucified with Christ [that is, in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith [by adhering to, relying on, and completely trusting] in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20, AMP)​

In Christ you are so valuable that God has freely given you the greatest possible gifts as an inheritance: eternal life with joy, happiness, and peace, and you will never again feel fear or pain.

However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”— (1 Corinthians 2:9, 1984 NIV)

Furthermore, you are have more inherent worth as one who is in Christ than 90% of the people on earth, and God treats you accordingly.

Since you are precious and honored in my sight, and because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, and people in exchange for your life. (Isaiah 43:4, 1984 NIV)

Spend more time in prayer talking to God with a sheet of verses in front of you about who you are in Christ and what it means that God loves you.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. (Psalms 139:14, 1984 NIV)

What you, and all of us, think about ourselves is deeply intertwined with deception. The whole world lies to you about yourself. Try to replace what you think about yourself with what God thinks of you. He knows the truth.

 

[Greg J.]

Oops, I didn't notice you wrote more within my last quoted passage. Reading it now.

 

[razzelflabben]

I have had an overwhelming abundance of experiences to transform me to have something like what you call self-hate for several decades. It is IMO the root of mental illness and probably an array of physical problems, too. It still is reinforced regularly.

not sure it is the root of mental illness or other physical problems but yes, very destructive.

Being made in his image was a product of his love. However, sin didn't just destroy our self-image, it destroyed our inherent value. The evidence is that we're condemned apart from Christ.

if it destroyed our inherent value then Christ wouldn't have come to redeem us. That is the point...our value is still in tack or Jesus wouldn't have come. that value is marred, hidden, violated by sin but not destroyed by it.

God wants to give us a rebirth, because what we became from sin could not be saved. We are reborn in Christ. I totally agree that knowledge of this fact doesn't transform a person out of low self-esteem. What does transform is sanctification, which in practice, is accomplished through abiding in Christ.

just studied this today, what sanctifies us? Truth John 17:17...that truth is Jesus Christ, but here is the thing, it is also what Love rejoices in. I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, Christ transforms us and returns us to our proper created state which restores our value, but that happens because of and through Love and that is a Love we are suppose to live out in our lives and show to others because we are the witensses of the truth of Christ to the world. iow's we have a role to play in restoring value to those who feel they have no value.

People say, and it is true, that if you were the only fallen person on earth, Jesus would still have died for you. It is an attempt to get across how much God really loves YOU. His love is so enormous that we are actually incapable of grasping it. Imagine in your mind the greatest possible ways you could be loved—and God loves you more than that. All the forces of darkness are working against a person uncovering a deeper faith in how much God loves them. It is the #1 thing that Satan is driven to prevent. That should tell you something about how great God's love is for you.

true, but we are also called to show that Love to others through the indwelling power of the living God.

We need to persist in holding onto and fighting for the truth of God's love for us. Memorize verses and use them to fight the false thoughts and reasoning. You'll probably spend a lot of time fighting to eject lies from you mind. It may take a while to experience what it is doing for you, but it is an implied command (Philippians 4:8) and God will help you.

another great study... one of satan's schemes is to try to separate us from the word....we combat that by 1. memorizing, 2. study and 3. meditating on the word of God day and night. Amen.

This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. (1 John 3:19-20, 1984 NIV; also see v. 16)

That verse tells us that God knows the Truth about us, which is such that we can rest in his presence even when we feel or think we are guilty/condemned/worthless. And a few verses earlier, John writes,

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 John 3:16, 1984 NIV)

exactly...not only does this passage show us that sin cannot remove our value but that we are responsible for living out the Love of Christ that restores that value to it's proper place.

The spiritual disciplines, particularly obedience, bring the power of God for transformation such that we experience more of the truth. Knowing Jesus better is the cure for the terribly false convictions that come with low self-image.

I would say that it isn't just knowing God better but also knowing who we are in Him. They kind of go hand in hand but are a bit different too.

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18, 1995 NASB)

Being reborn in Christ automatically glorifies you. We're being transformed from glory into glory.

I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11, 1984 NIV)

You are greater than every person in the Old Testament was when they were alive. You are greater than Moses was, greater than Elijah, King David, and Abraham was. This is because it is no longer "you" who live (the "old man"), but a reborn version of you merged with the Holy Spirit ("new creation") (2 Corinthians 5:17).

now, see, this makes me uncomfortable because along with a proper understanding of who we are, we are suppose to be humble. A humility that does not allow us to think about being exalted but rather accepts our lowly position with grace and gratitude. iow's this does nothing to help "me" with self esteem and in fact, makes the struggle harder.

I have been crucified with Christ [that is, in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith [by adhering to, relying on, and completely trusting] in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20, AMP)​

In Christ you are so valuable that God has freely given you the greatest possible gifts as an inheritance: eternal life with joy, happiness, and peace, and you will never again feel fear or pain.

exactly...my value is not in my abilities but in the very fact that I was created in the image of God and that in the restoration of that, I can find truth.

However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”— (1 Corinthians 2:9, 1984 NIV)

Furthermore, you are have more inherent worth as one who is in Christ than 90% of the people on earth, and God treats you accordingly.

let's talk about this a moment in relation to us living our Christ among those we are living among.

Scripture tells us that God lavishes His love upon us...when was the last time we lavished someone with the Love of Christ? Often we give in His name, but what do we give? Do we really Love with a lavishness? as we love ourselves. When was the last time we gave our best to someone else rather than keep the best for us and give someone else something else?

Recently we were privileged to meet a young man that had received as a child the Samaritan Purse shoe boxes. We decided in honor of that blessing to give shoe boxes this year to Christ for Christmas. As we were talking about what to include in the shoe boxes we thought about a small "treasure box" as a way of saying that we treasure you...as a way of lavishing Love upon them. All too often we forget that real God Love is a lavishing kind of Love and that lavishness shows us how valuable we really are.

Since you are precious and honored in my sight, and because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, and people in exchange for your life. (Isaiah 43:4, 1984 NIV)

Spend more time in prayer talking to God with a sheet of verses in front of you about who you are in Christ and what it means that God loves you.

I just had this talk with our pastor...I don't just want titles, I want to be worthy of those titles. Every time I fail, I am reminded of how worthless I am, but that isn't what scripture says...scripture says I am more than just those titles because I am the very temple of the living God...that is some huge value right there.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. (Psalms 139:14, 1984 NIV)

What you, and all of us, think about ourselves is deeply intertwined with deception. The whole world lies to you about yourself. Try to replace what you think about yourself with what God thinks of you. He knows the truth.

How do we know what God thinks? You mentioned scripture...amen...but other believers is part of that whole picture...as is prayer (again amen to you)...obedience....fasting...etc.

 

[Greg J.]

Wow, too many issues for me to try to answer them all at once. Let me just say one thing and I can try to respond to whatever you further write.

You are building your understanding on something false. God is not restoring us to a purified version of what we were created to be. He has given himself to us in a vastly more intimate and priceless way. This was the only way to save us. That version of sinless "human" that we were created to be was (at the point of salvation), is, and will be (upon bodily death) destroyed by sin. Who we are now is not human like Adam was human. We are partially the Spirit of God now. We used to be a descendant of Adam (and still are, bodily), but those who are in Christ (post-bodily death) are no longer descendants of Adam at all. We are now born of God in a different way than Adam was.

What being a "child of God" means is ambiguous. What is clearer is that we are now brothers and sisters of Christ (the firstborn) in our new family. In other words we are like Christ by being in Christ, except he has the rights of a firstborn in our family. We have the rights like those of a second-born. In Christ we have Christ's authority, are co-owners of the kingdom of God (Luke 12:32), and will be co-rulers in his reign. We are right now with him on his heavenly throne (Ephesians 2:6). None of these things were a part of Adam's inheritance.

 

[miknik5]

I'm not sure if this belongs in apologetics but I do want a Biblical perspective beyond the usual...

Here is the story behind the question. I was taught that I have no value, even that as a female I have no real value. When our son died, someone close to the family tried to reduce him to a monetary value. Our own daughter is suffering right now with low self esteem from a sin that was done to her. Well, a few weeks ago she brought home a very wonderful christian young man (just friends at the time, now dating, yeah) who was and is LOVING her with the Love of Christ and that is an amazing thing to watch because it is restoring to her her value.

When I studied marriage, I looked at Isaiah 53 how Christ loved the Church and compared that to Prov. 31 the wife of noble character and I discovered something very interesting. Christ's revelation of who He is and how He loves, restored to His bride (the Church) a value that sin had stolen from her.

Now before I ask my question, let me make something clear. I see earning salvation as something very different from value and so it will be important to our communication to understand the difference.

Now, the question...what are some practical ways we can find in scripture to restore to one another the value that sin has taken away, especially for those like myself who have been taught from the youngest of ages that they have no value. I will also warn you that I will not be easy to convince so don't even try....I can make a valid excuse for everything you present that is the old usual arguments. IOW's this will challenge what you have been taught to say.

The TRUTH that those in CHRIST are supposed to be ONE and the TRUTH that there is supposed to be unity in THE BODY with each member doing his/her part and putting others before themselves until we all reach the unity of faith understanding that we are to leave all things to HIS SOVEREIGN control

 

[miknik5]

This means that we will be treated unfairly

We are told to do all things and to forgive one another understanding that we are only unworthy servants and are simply called to do what is expected

Not all know this and understand this but all men are to be left to HIS SOVEREIGNTY and final judgement

 

[razzelflabben]

Wow, too many issues for me to try to answer them all at once. Let me just say one thing and I can try to respond to whatever you further write.

You are building your understanding on something false. God is not restoring us to a purified version of what we were created to be. He has given himself to us in a vastly more intimate and priceless way. This was the only way to save us. That version of sinless "human" that we were created to be was (at the point of salvation), is, and will be (upon bodily death) destroyed by sin. Who we are now is not human like Adam was human. We are partially the Spirit of God now. We used to be a descendant of Adam (and still are, bodily), but those who are in Christ (post-bodily death) are no longer descendants of Adam at all. We are now born of God in a different way than Adam was.

not sure how you read anything else into my post, but okay.

What being a "child of God" means is ambiguous. What is clearer is that we are now brothers and sisters of Christ (the firstborn) in our new family. In other words we are like Christ by being in Christ, except he has the rights of a firstborn in our family. We have the rights like those of a second-born. In Christ we have Christ's authority, are co-owners of the kingdom of God (Luke 12:32), and will be co-rulers in his reign. We are right now with him on his heavenly throne (Ephesians 2:6). None of these things were a part of Adam's inheritance.

again, not sure how you would read what said and not get this, but okay.

 

[Greg J.]

not sure how you read anything else into my post, but okay. again, not sure how you would read what said and not get this, but okay.

It's not what I read into your post, it's the quantity of things I would say in response.

 

[razzelflabben]

This means that we will be treated unfairly

We are told to do all things and to forgive one another understanding that we are only unworthy servants and are simply called to do what is expected

Not all know this and understand this but all men are to be left to HIS SOVEREIGNTY and final judgement

I think forgiving is a huge part of telling others they have value in Christ.

 

[razzelflabben]

It's not what I read into your post, it's the quantity of things I would say in response.

not sure what you mean by this but do need to run for a few moments