How Is One’s Name Written in the Book of Life?

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

No work has to be done to attain eternal life in heaven. We do need to accept discipline. Once we reach the point of eternal life and we listened to Jesus we could have let Him put us to sleep, kill us, to put to death the sins of the flesh. Ananias and Sapphira went to sleep under discipline and went to heaven. The drunks in 1Corinthians 11:29-30 went to sleep under discipline and went to heaven. Ananias and wife did give some money to the church, but they did it for the wrong reason, so it didn't count. Both the groups took discipline, so they were sons of God. Because they reached the point of eternal life and took discipline they went to heaven. The point of eternal life is when we either accept or reject discipline. After accepting discipline, we are sons of God and have eternal life in heaven. From this point on we are required to do works and walk in the Spirit to continue living in the flesh. To walk in the Spirit, we do works of the law out of love for God.

If eternal life cannot be achieved through one's work, then it also cannot be lost through one's work.

The death and punishment you are talking about are temporary consequences on earth, not eternal life. Once a person accepts Christ. Once someone accept Christ and receive the gift of salvation, he will never, ever lose that gift.

 

[fli]

If eternal life cannot be achieved through one's work, then it also cannot be lost through one's work.

The death and punishment you are talking about are temporary consequences on earth, not eternal life. Once a person accepts Christ. Once someone accept Christ and receive the gift of salvation, he will never, ever lose that gift.

People do not lose salvation through sin. They lose salvation because they love the world more than they love what Jesus offers. People will not hope to get into heaven if Jesus tells them to give up the things of the world when they love the world more than what Jesus offers. That is one way to lose salvation.

Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

Another way to lose salvation is to let Satan convince you that you have to do a work for it. Jesus did everything necessary for a person to get into heaven. If one doesn't believe Jesus saves without their help they don't make it.

Both of these ways happen prior to the point of reaching eternal life. Once a person enters and accepts Jesus as Lord, meaning you will follow His voice to put to death the sins of the flesh. As stated before, one can be disciplined by simply letting Jesus put you to sleep, kill the flesh. When disciplined that way people reach heaven without doing any work. Therefore, discipline is followed not to get to heaven, it is followed to continue physical life.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

People do not lose salvation through sin. They lose salvation because they love the world more than they love what Jesus offers. People will not hope to get into heaven if Jesus tells them to give up the things of the world when they love the world more than what Jesus offers. That is one way to lose salvation.

Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

Another way to lose salvation is to let Satan convince you that you have to do a work for it. Jesus did everything necessary for a person to get into heaven. If one doesn't believe Jesus saves without their help they don't make it.

Both of these ways happen prior to the point of reaching eternal life. Once a person enters and accepts Jesus as Lord, meaning you will follow His voice to put to death the sins of the flesh. As stated before, one can be disciplined by simply letting Jesus put you to sleep, kill the flesh. When disciplined that way people reach heaven without doing any work. Therefore, discipline is followed not to get to heaven, it is followed to continue physical life.

I notice that you have used the term "disciplined," which appears to imply adherence to specific rules and regulations—essentially, a set of dos and don'ts required to attain heaven. This concept closely resembles the principles found in Old Testament law.

We are back to square one – do you think we need to follow rules and regulation to go to haven?

 

[fli]

I notice that you have used the term "disciplined," which appears to imply adherence to specific rules and regulations—essentially, a set of dos and don'ts required to attain heaven. This concept closely resembles the principles found in Old Testament law.

We are back to square one – do you think we need to follow rules and regulation to go to haven?

No! As I have stated before when we enter Jesus, we can go to heaven by simply letting Jesus kill us physically instead of giving up the sin He is convicting us of. Because God has granted us repentance to life, we do not need to repent of that sin to get into heaven. We do need to repent of that sin to walk in the spirit and continue to live physically. Therefore, we can get into heaven without following any rules except keep believing in Jesus.

Once we accept discipline, we are sons of God. After this we are disciplined to sanctify us. Once we are a child of God, He expects us to behave as a child of God. If we do not walk in the Spirit, God will call us to heaven. We will lose the rewards God has planned for us. The commandments we are to keep is to keep believing in Jesus. It does not take work to keep believing in Jesus, but it does require us to keep the hope we have in Jesus. That does not require any work either. If you find that God is asking too much of you then take that up with Him. I guess that maybe John is wrong, and we are not required to keep believing in Jesus.

We are also required to love our brethren, other saints. God gave is love for our brethren when we had hope in Jesus. God gives us grace for that if we are walking in the Spirit. If you refuse to use the gift that He gave you for loving the saints, why would you believe He asking too much of you?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

No! As I have stated before when we enter Jesus, we can go to heaven by simply letting Jesus kill us physically instead of giving up the sin He is convicting us of. Because God has granted us repentance to life, we do not need to repent of that sin to get into heaven. We do need to repent of that sin to walk in the spirit and continue to live physically. Therefore, we can get into heaven without following any rules except keep believing in Jesus.

Once we accept discipline, we are sons of God. After this we are disciplined to sanctify us. Once we are a child of God, He expects us to behave as a child of God. If we do not walk in the Spirit, God will call us to heaven. We will lose the rewards God has planned for us. The commandments we are to keep is to keep believing in Jesus. It does not take work to keep believing in Jesus, but it does require us to keep the hope we have in Jesus. That does not require any work either. If you find that God is asking too much of you then take that up with Him. I guess that maybe John is wrong, and we are not required to keep believing in Jesus.

We are also required to love our brethren, other saints. God gave is love for our brethren when we had hope in Jesus. God gives us grace for that if we are walking in the Spirit. If you refuse to use the gift that He gave you for loving the saints, why would you believe He asking too much of you?

I noticed that you listed "Baptist" as your religion. I have been a Christian for over 40 years and have attended many different denominations, including Catholic, Anglican, Assemblies of God, and Church of Christ. I was raised in a fundamental Baptist church, and my grandfather was a charismatic Baptist pastor. However, I have never encountered the term "discipline" used in this context within Christian theology. Could you clarify where the phrase, "Once we accept discipline," originates from?

May be we need to start what you mean by “discipline” before we get to salvation.

 

[fli]

I noticed that you listed "Baptist" as your religion. I have been a Christian for over 40 years and have attended many different denominations, including Catholic, Anglican, Assemblies of God, and Church of Christ. I was raised in a fundamental Baptist church, and my grandfather was a charismatic Baptist pastor. However, I have never encountered the term "discipline" used in this context within Christian theology. Could you clarify where the phrase, "Once we accept discipline," originates from?

May be we need to start what you mean by “discipline” before we get to salvation.

In Websters dictionary: control gained by enforcing obedience or order

In Hebrews 12 they refer to it as chastise. In 1 Corinthians 11 it states "God chastises, disciplines, us to keep from being judged with the world. In Hebrews 12 they say we were chastised, disciplined, by our fathers. It means to correct some behavior in us. In our sanctification Jesus will tell us to change specific behaviors. He will also tell us to start doing certain behaviors. If we do not, He takes corrective action to get our attention.

The way Jesus guides us in sanctification is by first telling us some behavior or deeds we are doing to stop. He also will tell us some behavior or deeds that He wants us to do. If we do not act on His suggestions He will do something to us to get us to obey. The first time Jesus tells us something we are to do, He will find out if we have made Him our Lord or not. His sheep, John 6, follow His voice. If we follow His voice, we are His sheep.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

In Websters dictionary: control gained by enforcing obedience or order

In Hebrews 12 they refer to it as chastise. In 1 Corinthians 11 it states "God chastises, disciplines, us to keep from being judged with the world. In Hebrews 12 they say we were chastised, disciplined, by our fathers. It means to correct some behavior in us. In our sanctification Jesus will tell us to change specific behaviors. He will also tell us to start doing certain behaviors. If we do not, He takes corrective action to get our attention.

The way Jesus guides us in sanctification is by first telling us some behavior or deeds we are doing to stop. He also will tell us some behavior or deeds that He wants us to do. If we do not act on His suggestions He will do something to us to get us to obey. The first time Jesus tells us something we are to do, He will find out if we have made Him our Lord or not. His sheep, John 6, follow His voice. If we follow His voice, we are His sheep.

I understand why you may wish to avoid using the term "work," as it can be quite revealing. Instead, you prefer terms like "discipline" “obedience” or "change our behavior," but ultimately, these all refer to the work required. At some point, I will need to put in this work—perhaps one day, I might attain salvation.

I am sorry to say , that is not salvation which is offered in the Bible. According to the Bible, salvation is described as a free gift that is received when a person accepts Christ. The moment a man accept Christ that very moment he became a new creation , a children of God, his name is written in the book of life, and he is considered justified before God. And Jesus promises that such a person cannot be taken away from him, and that their fate is secured by the Holy Spirit for eternal life.

 

[fli]

I understand why you may wish to avoid using the term "work," as it can be quite revealing. Instead, you prefer terms like "discipline" “obedience” or "change our behavior," but ultimately, these all refer to the work required. At some point, I will need to put in this work—perhaps one day, I might attain salvation.

I am sorry to say , that is not salvation which is offered in the Bible. According to the Bible, salvation is described as a free gift that is received when a person accepts Christ. The moment a man accept Christ that very moment he became a new creation , a children of God, his name is written in the book of life, and he is considered justified before God. And Jesus promises that such a person cannot be taken away from him, and that their fate is secured by the Holy Spirit for eternal life.

You must believe that I am trying to work my way to heaven. No one who works to get to heaven will make it. The fact is I know that I am a son of God by Romans 8: 13-14. Do I believe that I am saved because I worked to put to death a the sin (Not all my sin) of the flesh? No, I know that it was Jesus' Spirit that did the work. I just followed His voice. I have since continued putting sins to death by working to rid them following His voice. Not for salvation, but to walk in the Spirit and continue living physically.

As for not losing salvation.

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

God chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

If we believe in Him why would God say that He chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world. If we cannot be condemned, lose salvation, God, is lying about the reason for His chastening those who believe? Either God is lying, or we can lose our salvation. God does not lie; we can lose salvation if we quit believing in Him. The fact is when we believe in Him, we are born from above.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV

To those who received His testimony, believed in Him, He gave the right to become a child of God. We do not become a child of God simply by believing in Jesus once. We must continue to believe in Him. Can someone lose salvation by quit believing in Jesus?

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." NKJV

No one escapes the pollution by simply knowing that you can be sinless by believing in Him. To escape the pollutions, they must have believed in Him for their salvation. No one can again become entangled unless they were free of the entanglement. And what did they do to again become entangled in the pollutions? Verse 21 they turned from the holy commandment. What commandment?

2 Peter 3:1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,
NKJV

Peter writes this second epistle to be mindful of the commandment of the Apostles. What are the commandments the apostles taught?

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

(Here again are those pesty commandments you find troublesome.) Those are the commandment that the people Peter described in 2Peter 2: 21 turned from. They quit believing in Jesus and became again entangled in the pollutions of the world.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

You must believe that I am trying to work my way to heaven. No one who works to get to heaven will make it. The fact is I know that I am a son of God by Romans 8: 13-14. Do I believe that I am saved because I worked to put to death a the sin (Not all my sin) of the flesh? No, I know that it was Jesus' Spirit that did the work. I just followed His voice. I have since continued putting sins to death by working to rid them following His voice. Not for salvation, but to walk in the Spirit and continue living physically.

As for not losing salvation.

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

God chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

If we believe in Him why would God say that He chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world. If we cannot be condemned, lose salvation, God, is lying about the reason for His chastening those who believe? Either God is lying, or we can lose our salvation. God does not lie; we can lose salvation if we quit believing in Him. The fact is when we believe in Him, we are born from above.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV

To those who received His testimony, believed in Him, He gave the right to become a child of God. We do not become a child of God simply by believing in Jesus once. We must continue to believe in Him. Can someone lose salvation by quit believing in Jesus?

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." NKJV

No one escapes the pollution by simply knowing that you can be sinless by believing in Him. To escape the pollutions, they must have believed in Him for their salvation. No one can again become entangled unless they were free of the entanglement. And what did they do to again become entangled in the pollutions? Verse 21 they turned from the holy commandment. What commandment?

2 Peter 3:1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,
NKJV

Peter writes this second epistle to be mindful of the commandment of the Apostles. What are the commandments the apostles taught?

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

(Here again are those pesty commandments you find troublesome.) Those are the commandment that the people Peter described in 2Peter 2: 21 turned from. They quit believing in Jesus and became again entangled in the pollutions of the world.

You see, I agree with you 100% in this paragraph ( your first) .

I also believe that every believer, upon receiving the gift of salvation, should strive to lead a godly life by taking up their cross daily, confessing their sins as tought by Jesus in the Lord’s Prayer, loving one another, and living according to the teachings of both the Old and New Testaments while putting aside former behaviors. However, these actions are not intended to earn or retain the gift of salvation; rather, they are a response to live like a children of God, through which we are called to follow Him, abide in Him, and bear fruit.

Yet every believer sins. Despite our efforts, we still fall short. Paul observed that he often did what he didn't want to do because of his desires.

After salvation, we are assured of eternal life, but our sinful actions still have consequences on earth. For instance, if I commit adultery, I cannot blame God for my marriage ending, nor expect God to restore it simply because I am saved. Sin continues to have earthly repercussions even after salvation, though salvation secures our place in heaven. God disciplines us when we stray and there are consequences for sin, but these only affect our lives on earth, not eternal life.

 

[fli]

You see, I agree with you 100% in this paragraph ( your first) .

I also believe that every believer, upon receiving the gift of salvation, should strive to lead a godly life by taking up their cross daily, confessing their sins as tought by Jesus in the Lord’s Prayer, loving one another, and living according to the teachings of both the Old and New Testaments while putting aside former behaviors. However, these actions are not intended to earn or retain the gift of salvation; rather, they are a response to live like a children of God, through which we are called to follow Him, abide in Him, and bear fruit.

Yet every believer sins. Despite our efforts, we still fall short. Paul observed that he often did what he didn't want to do because of his desires.

After salvation, we are assured of eternal life, but our sinful actions still have consequences on earth. For instance, if I commit adultery, I cannot blame God for my marriage ending, nor expect God to restore it simply because I am saved. Sin continues to have earthly repercussions even after salvation, though salvation secures our place in heaven. God disciplines us when we stray and there are consequences for sin, but these only affect our lives on earth, not eternal life.

So, in 2 Perter 2: 18-22 what holy commandment did the person turn from to again become polluted (a sinner)? What did God do to the person?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

So, in 2 Perter 2: 18-22 what holy commandment did the person turn from to again become polluted (a sinner)? What did God do to the person?

At the start of the chapter, Peter discusses false prophets and teachers who have never truly accepted Christ. Though they know Christ, his teachings, the gospel, and the path to salvation, they have not welcomed Christ into their hearts. Paul also wrote about false teacher and false prophet in his latter. These people “Know” God all to well, they “Know “ the way to salvation but they are never saved.

Hebrew 6: 4-8 is another example of these kind of people.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Many people “know/enlighten” God and understand the path to eternity, yet have never truly accepted Christ. I am sure you know such person in your life, I am praying for two such individuals—family friends who grew up in Christian homes, know scripture, and understand the reasons for Christ’s sacrifice and salvation, but have never genuinely accepted Christ and now no longer believe in God.

 

[fli]

At the start of the chapter, Peter discusses false prophets and teachers who have never truly accepted Christ. Though they know Christ, his teachings, the gospel, and the path to salvation, they have not welcomed Christ into their hearts. Paul also wrote about false teacher and false prophet in his latter. These people “Know” God all to well, they “Know “ the way to salvation but they are never saved.

Hebrew 6: 4-8 is another example of these kind of people.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those f You have not tasted theor whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Many people “know/enlighten” God and understand the path to eternity, yet have never truly accepted Christ. I am sure you know such person in your life, I am praying for two such individuals—family friends who grew up in Christian homes, know scripture, and understand the reasons for Christ’s sacrifice and salvation, but have never genuinely accepted Christ and now no longer believe in God.

You do not share in the Holy Spirit unless you are saved. You have not tasted the powers of the coming age, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the manifest powers, unless you are saved. You cannot be brought back to repentance unless God has granted you repentance before. Check Acts 5:31 and Acts 11:18. Humans, even Hebrews, have no idea of all they need to repent of for God to accept human repentance. (When Peter called for the Jews to repent in acts 2 and 3, He named the sin they needed to repent of which was their being active in putting Jesus on the cross.) In Hebrews above the writer is discussing Messianic Hebrews who are about to lose or have lost salvation.

Show me some scriptures that prove unsaved people share in the Holy Spirit, the powers of the age to come.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. NKJV

The false prophets were bought, redeemed, by Jesus.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. NKJV

The false teachers, who had once been redeemed, were trying to teach other saved people to deflect.

2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. NKJV

Once again no one escapes the pollutions (sins) of the world until they receive Jesus as their savior. The only people who can turn from the Holy Command delivered by the Apostles.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

Here is a scripture which proves that unless one believes in Jesus that the person is still condemned. They are condemned because they have not escaped the pollutions of the world. They are still in sin.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

You do not share in the Holy Spirit unless you are saved. You have not tasted the powers of the coming age, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the manifest powers, unless you are saved. You cannot be brought back to repentance unless God has granted you repentance before. Check Acts 5:31 and Acts 11:18. Humans, even Hebrews, have no idea of all they need to repent of for God to accept human repentance. (When Peter called for the Jews to repent in acts 2 and 3, He named the sin they needed to repent of which was their being active in putting Jesus on the cross.) In Hebrews above the writer is discussing Messianic Hebrews who are about to lose or have lost salvation.

Show me some scriptures that prove unsaved people share in the Holy Spirit, the powers of the age to come.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. NKJV

The false prophets were bought, redeemed, by Jesus.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. NKJV

The false teachers, who had once been redeemed, were trying to teach other saved people to deflect.

2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. NKJV

Once again no one escapes the pollutions (sins) of the world until they receive Jesus as their savior. The only people who can turn from the Holy Command delivered by the Apostles.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

Here is a scripture which proves that unless one believes in Jesus that the person is still condemned. They are condemned because they have not escaped the pollutions of the world. They are still in sin.

It is notable that 2 Peter 2:1 uses the term “bought” in reference to false prophets, which could suggest that these individuals were once saved or redeemed. However, it is important to recognize that a single verse—or even a few verses—does not establish doctrine, particularly when the overarching message of the New Testament emphasizes that salvation is an eternal and freely given gift.

If a man were capable of maintaining his own salvation, there would have been no necessity for Jesus to come to earth and die on the cross—the Old Testament would have sufficed. Similarly, if a man could sustain his faith until death, the Old Testament covenant would have been adequate. However, God instituted a new covenant because human beings cannot achieve salvation through their own efforts or by simply enduring in faith. Salvation is not something that can be earned or maintained solely by human action.

 

[fli]

It is notable that 2 Peter 2:1 uses the term “bought” in reference to false prophets, which could suggest that these individuals were once saved or redeemed. However, it is important to recognize that a single verse—or even a few verses—does not establish doctrine, particularly when the overarching message of the New Testament emphasizes that salvation is an eternal and freely given gift.

If a man were capable of maintaining his own salvation, there would have been no necessity for Jesus to come to earth and die on the cross—the Old Testament would have sufficed. Similarly, if a man could sustain his faith until death, the Old Testament covenant would have been adequate. However, God instituted a new covenant because human beings cannot achieve salvation through their own efforts or by simply enduring in faith. Salvation is not something that can be earned or maintained solely by human action.

So, you do not accept scriptural evidence that salvation can be lost. Please cite scripture evidence, apart from stating salvation is a free gift, as I have stated the path that God provides to make it a free gift. I will explain more about the free path to salvation.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works, it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life on earth. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price. When we are born from above, we could be taken to heaven then. God gives us the opportunity to show our love by furthering His kingdom and bring Him glory.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV

God has made it clear all will be chastised.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul does say that drunks will not enter heaven. In verse 9 he states the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom. That would eliminate every person still in the flesh.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lord's supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian, they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul did write that drunks and also the unrighteous would not inherit the kingdom. The unrighteous would eliminate everyone still in the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV

Paul later explained how Christians who did those things got into heaven. The drunks in chapter 11 got into heaven smelling of smoke.

If you disagree, please state your objections with supporting verses.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

So, you do not accept scriptural evidence that salvation can be lost. Please cite scripture evidence, apart from stating salvation is a free gift, as I have stated the path that God provides to make it a free gift. I will explain more about the free path to salvation.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works, it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life on earth. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price. When we are born from above, we could be taken to heaven then. God gives us the opportunity to show our love by furthering His kingdom and bring Him glory.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV

God has made it clear all will be chastised.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul does say that drunks will not enter heaven. In verse 9 he states the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom. That would eliminate every person still in the flesh.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lord's supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian, they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul did write that drunks and also the unrighteous would not inherit the kingdom. The unrighteous would eliminate everyone still in the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV

Paul later explained how Christians who did those things got into heaven. The drunks in chapter 11 got into heaven smelling of smoke.

If you disagree, please state your objections with supporting verses.

None of these verses pertain to the loss of salvation; rather, they address the sanctification of a Christian throughout their lifetime.

The concept of losing salvation presents a challenge, as it implies that salvation must be earned in order for it to be forfeited. However, if we agree that individuals cannot attain salvation by their own merit, it raises the question: how can someone lose something they did not earn?

 

[fli]

None of these verses pertain to the loss of salvation; rather, they address the sanctification of a Christian throughout their lifetime.

The concept of losing salvation presents a challenge, as it implies that salvation must be earned in order for it to be forfeited. However, if we agree that individuals cannot attain salvation by their own merit, it raises the question: how can someone lose something they did not earn?

The verses were not meant to explain loss of salvation. Loss of salvation, in the post #72, you do not accept that in 2 Peter 2: 1 it clearly states that the false teachers were bought, redeemed, by Jesus. You cite no supporting scriptures to justify your statement that the false teachers were once redeemed. You just say one scripture does not prove that they, the false teachers, were redeemed.

Since you haven't explained why you do not accept that Christians can get into heaven when they are put to sleep under chastisement the first time Jesus chastises them. That is the path for a no works salvation. What do you disagree with on my explanation of that? I will again post the scriptures that explain God's path to a no works salvation.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

First Jesus does expect us to put to sleep the sins of the flesh, with His help.

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life on earth. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.


1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Because the events in verses 27 through 32, happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time. In other words, they did not become drunks after being saved. They were drunks prior to salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian, they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

If you will, please state your objections to why a Christian can, when chastised for the first time, die and go to heaven? Please cite verses to explain your position.