How is Loud Christian Worship Justified?

[Svt4Him]

It's so funny. Having worked with sound men for many years, you can see the older people plug their ears in protest when some music was loud, but when a good old-time hymn came on, their arms were in the air and they were singing along like anyone's business, and it was just as loud. We use to measure the sound just to make sure and our sound man use to point it out...we would just laugh.

 

[franky67]

You haven't mentioned anything that would cause it to be considered unjustified, biblically speaking. You say loud isn't necessary because God isn't deaf. This is true, but God also isn't annoyed by any particular level of decibels either.

You dont like it. I don't like it much myself. However, how can I say that one who is load is not offering pure praise, or even one who is quiet as one who is offering something un-pure.

I am not saying the ones who prefer loud are not worshiping, that is not my point.

The people in the Philippine Islands actually nail people to crosses and parade them through villages, and worship as they go. They are worshiping God.

122 decibels for 30 minutes does permanent damage to human hearing.

I cannot bring myself to believe this is God's will.

 

[franky67]

Just got back from a Third day / Tenth Avenue North concert and my ears are buzzing and THAT was a loud concert but I've never been to a worship service that came close to that kind of loudness so I'm wondering what exactly you mean by loud?

Loud can mean different things to different people.

Sound is measurable , do a google on it and I think you'll find around 115 decibels for 30 minutes does permanent damage to our hearing.

Now it's true that those in the audience who are already hearing impaired, are not disturbed as much as those with normal hearing.

 

[lismore]

Sound is measurable , do a google on it and I think you'll find around 115 decibels for 30 minutes does permanent damage to our hearing.

Now it's true that those in the audience who are already hearing impaired, are not disturbed as much as those with normal hearing.

I agree with you Franky.

There is a charismatic church here called 'The Gate'. I was speaking to a former member of the gate, for a while just about every sunday the Police were being called during the service. The neighbours (about 25 metres from the church) were complaining that the noise was excessive, the local Council measured the sound and it exceeded European Safety Guidlines, not for the church, for the residents in houses down the street.

I went to the gate and had to run out part way through. The first 5 rows or so were empty, everyone floccuated up the back. When they struck up the first song I realised why the first 5 rows were empty. You would have physically passed out sitting there!

 

[JimB]

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord.

Loud is only “joyful” to people with hearing loss. Personally, I like my concerts loud but I prefer my worship a bit more mellow. Loud music has proven to be a problem for me—I have hearing loss (due to too many amplified concerts through the years, my audiologist told me). But I like my worship a notch or two decibels lower. It is not necessary, IMO, to overwhelm the eardrums to fool people thinking they are in the presence of God. The mountain may have rumbled but it was the still small voice that got through to the prophet.

~Jim

True faith believes in God, not itself.​

​

 

[franky67]

It's so funny. Having worked with sound men for many years, you can see the older people plug their ears in protest when some music was loud, but when a good old-time hymn came on, their arms were in the air and they were singing along like anyone's business, and it was just as loud. We use to measure the sound just to make sure and our sound man use to point it out...we would just laugh.

There are more and more ex musicians now with hearing problems than there were before the era of "electronic amplification"

Jim had an excellent post in this thread, concerning the use of sound for manipulation, which is something Hollywood has discovered within the last 30 years.

We present our sacrifice of worship, and let God do the controlling.

Music ministry has "worship Leaders" , not worship manipulators.

 

[lismore]

We present our sacrifice of worship, and let God do the controlling.

I went to a Christian music event on holiday in Sicily in an old Roman Amphitheatre. The accoustics there were great, 2000+ people at the event and no electronics/ amplifiction were needed. It was the clearest sound I ever heard.

I think we are manipulating effects far too much in music today, not just in churches but in secular music too. Some of the big names in music today, without mics and amps could not concert at all.

 

[JimB]

I honestly don’t think church worship leaders have any idea that they are manipulating emotions by cranking up the music. It was the way it was done when they grew up and it does produce the desired effect (tears, shouting, dancing, etc.) so that it can easily be confused with a so-called "move of the Spirit". The same effect in a different context can be experienced at a rock concert or pep rally. It is just the sad state of affairs in this day of amplification.

~Jim

 

[Faulty]

I am not saying the ones who prefer loud are not worshiping, that is not my point.

The people in the Philippine Islands actually nail people to crosses and parade them through villages, and worship as they go. They are worshiping God.

122 decibels for 30 minutes does permanent damage to human hearing.

I cannot bring myself to believe this is God's will.

Well then, I guess it's a good thing God heals on demand.

Seriously, it's shaky ground to be standing on when you start considering the mode of someones worship as not God's will.

 

[Svt4Him]

There are more and more ex musicians now with hearing problems than there were before the era of "electronic amplification"

Jim had an excellent post in this thread, concerning the use of sound for manipulation, which is something Hollywood has discovered within the last 30 years.

We present our sacrifice of worship, and let God do the controlling.

Music ministry has "worship Leaders" , not worship manipulators.

See, the assumption in this is that 'loud music' causes hearing loss because it’s so loud, yet no one has posted how loud loud really is. As I work in an organization that actually does the testing for all workers in BC for hearing loss, I am well aware at what does or does not cause hearing loss, as well as the long-term effects of this damage. As for sound causing manipulation, I believe you're referring to sensory overload and the clinical diagnosis is it doesn’t make one more open to manipulation it's a slower response to additional stimuli as well as a concentration problem. Children can have this same overload when seeing a bunch of bright colours or moving objects, and certain mental issues as well as intense stress cause this, but it doesn’t make someone more susceptible to manipulation; although I’d love to see a study that shows me wrong. Actually, please cite this study, as the claim was made.

But in our church, we kept the levels below what would be the ‘danger zone’ yet still had the same response from the older ones.

 

[Cassidy]

It's so funny. Having worked with sound men for many years, you can see the older people plug their ears in protest when some music was loud, but when a good old-time hymn came on, their arms were in the air and they were singing along like anyone's business, and it was just as loud. We use to measure the sound just to make sure and our sound man use to point it out...we would just laugh.

Yeh I'd believe that. My mum was the same. I'd be playing some music and she'd tell me to turn it down as it was so loud and I was going to go deaf, then something from the Beatles would come on and she'd tell me to turn it up and it'd be louder than I had it. And there she was bopping along to it.

ooooookay then!

 

[JimB]

To paraphrase the Apostle:

But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to others. For if anyone with superior knowledge insists on playing loud worship music, will not the eardrums of him who is less enlightened be split? When you thus sin against the brethren, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if loud worship music makes my brother stumble, I will never again play loud worship music, lest I make my brother stumble.

~Jim

True faith believes in God, not itself.​

 

[NaLuvena]

Up to a point I'd agree with you. There certainly is a biblical precept for praise being loud.

Psa 150:1-6 NKJV Praise the LORD! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty firmament! (2) Praise Him for His mighty acts; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness! (3) Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; Praise Him with the lute and harp! (4) Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! (5) Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbals! (6) Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD!

That said if it is so loud that it causes hearing damage or distress it does seem to fall foul of "love your neighbour as yourself" - the psalmist was more likely to have been talking about a loud noise being the result of playing instruments loudly and singing with great enthusiasm rather than simply turning the amplifiers up to 11.

I fail to see how your POV differs from mine You just used more words

 

[contango]

I fail to see how your POV differs from mine You just used more words

It may not differ at all, I just mentioned a potential point at which "praise him with loud cymbals" meets "turn it down, it hurts my ears"

 

[ai3theanswer]

Hey do people at sporting events cheer very softly? Is anyone up tight about someone beside them yelling at a NFL game?
Why is it when people get excited about praising the Lord someone always sees it as being wrong because God is not deaf.....in that case there is no point of doing anything because God knows the ending to the begining...
Enough with your religiousosity to get excited. You think everyone in heaven is going to be playing a soft harp??? I thought the music up there shakes the foundation of heaven?? That is loud.
Fact is if the music is to loud bring ear plugs! Get excited and yell that the God of the universe loves you!

 

[contango]

Hey do people at sporting events cheer very softly? Is anyone up tight about someone beside them yelling at a NFL game?

Not everybody goes to sporting events. If you're the kind of person who likes a bit of peace and quiet then an NFL game probably isn't a good place to be.

There's a place for loud praise, there's a place for quiet reflection. The psalmist wrote to praise God on clashing cymbals, although that's the same God who spoke to Elijah through the still small voice.

 

[franky67]

Hey do people at sporting events cheer very softly? Is anyone up tight about someone beside them yelling at a NFL game?
Why is it when people get excited about praising the Lord someone always sees it as being wrong because God is not deaf.....in that case there is no point of doing anything because God knows the ending to the begining...
Enough with your religiousosity to get excited. You think everyone in heaven is going to be playing a soft harp??? I thought the music up there shakes the foundation of heaven?? That is loud.
Fact is if the music is to loud bring ear plugs! Get excited and yell that the God of the universe loves you!

I believe noise pollution is indeed a reality in today's culture, and I also believe artificial sound amplification is a contributing factor.

I also believe electronic sound amplification has a detrimental effect on human hearing, if raised to an unnatural level.

Someone earlier in this thread spoke of being in an outdoor amphi-theater and the natural sound was perfectly acceptable, with no electronic amplification.

I attended a big band concert in a movie theater, I believe it was Woody Herman's band, and they used no amps at all, and in the balcony, it was loud, but not to the "threshold of pain" loud.

The purpose of my post was to raise awareness of possible harm done to those who are exposed to artificially amplified sounds.

And allow me to repeat my original question, if a 25 year old sustained permanent cumulative ear damage while worshiping throughout his life, and found himself tormented with constant ear ringing, would he be justified in praying for healing when he was 65 ?

I can't believe God would desire us to physically harm ourselves in worshiping Him.

Thanks for all your inputs.

 

[Svt4Him]

To paraphrase the Apostle:

But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to others. For if anyone with superior knowledge insists on playing loud worship music, will not the eardrums of him who is less enlightened be split? When you thus sin against the brethren, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if loud worship music makes my brother stumble, I will never again play loud worship music, lest I make my brother stumble.

~Jim

True faith believes in God, not itself.​

Well, this post has become a stumbling block to me, whatcha gunna do about that? As for splitting an eardrum, in all my years, I've never seen it happen, not once, ever.

BTW, Israel was so loud, another town heard them. Funny God didn't see this as a stumbling block.

 

[NaLuvena]

It may not differ at all, I just mentioned a potential point at which "praise him with loud cymbals" meets "turn it down, it hurts my ears"

No arguements here, like I said, this is more a matter of preference than anything else.

 

[NaLuvena]

Well, this post has become a stumbling block to me, whatcha gunna do about that? As for splitting an eardrum, in all my years, I've never seen it happen, not once, ever.

I have.

Wasn't from loud sounds though, but from diving too deep...