How important is it to attend Mass? How important is it not to attend Mass? Please give a reason or reasons for your answer, preferably informed, and not backed by mere personal 'attitude'.
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How important is it to attend Mass?
- Thread starter calluna
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I think the answer can be found in the principle taught in Colossians 3:17 - we need authority from the Lord for all we say and do. Therefore, if we have a scriptural basis for attending the Mass, then it is important that we do so. However, if there is no scriptural authority for it, then it is something we should not do. Personally, I can't find any such thing as the Mass in a credible English translation of the Scriptures. Therefore, I'm at a loss to understand how/why I'm supposed to keep something that isn't there.
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MrPolo
Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
For Catholics, it is obligatory to attend Mass.
CCC#1280 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass." "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."
CCC#1281 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.
CCC#1281 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.
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What is the difference between a "grave" sin and a "mortal" sin and a "venial" sin?
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MrPolo
Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Grave sin & mortal are interchangeable terms; they disjoint man from God. Venial sins hurt the person, but do not compromise his unity with God.
From the Catechism:
CCC#1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.
Lots more on this in the Catechism with corresponding cross-references if you wonder where any of it is reflected in revelation.
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Thank you for your clarification. It is much appreciated. So, for the large number of Catholics who neglect to attend weekly mass, they are guilty of mortal sin. How does one remedy the problem with these people?
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If you read your excellent examples you will see that the ECF's made a clear distinction between the Sabbath (seventh day) and the Lord's Day (first day) and did not conflate the two as many Protestant denominations did primarily in the nineteenth century. Thus, it is erroneous to refer to the Lord's Day as the new Sabbath.
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Is there support from the RC catechism for this view?
Remember, Mr Polo, this thread is about the Mass, and not Sundays/Sabbaths or anything else that might distract or look like vile legalist propaganda.
No hijacking, no evasion, just answer the questions. We're not all stupid.
Got that?
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It sounds as if by precept of the Catholic Church specific requirements not found in God's word (i.e., the Bible) are required of its members. Okay, say I'm not really interested in being a Catholic, but just a plain ole disciple, believer, follower of Christ - as in a Christian. You know, the kind you read about in the pages of the New Testament after the Lord's will went into effect per Hebrews 9:16-17. Per His will, I don't find any examples or authority for His church (the one He built and purchased - Acts 2:47, Acts 20:28) observing something called a Mass. Therefore, I'm inclined to think such a practice evolved over time from the teachings/practices of men after the first century. But, however, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps there is a basis for the Mass in the Scriptures. Is there?
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MrPolo
Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Good question. First, if you are familiar with the mass, you can find just about every part of it in Scripture. See this link for a handy little reference page. Also, you can see the Didache from 70 A.D., which is first century, reference elements of the mass in the early Church. See also page 66 and following of "The Mass of the Early Christians."
You see much of this is rooted in a fulfillment, not destruction, of the futile sacrifices of the Old Covenant. You can read some of this, which includes much Scriptural reference, from articles like Is the Mass a Sacrifice? or see the Jewish liturgical roots fulfilled in the mass in From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist. I would also have to recommend a great and famous book by Dr. Scott Hahn called The Lamb's Supper, showing the mass in Scripture in Revelation and Hebrews and elsewhere. You may also want to do a Scripture search for phrases like "the breaking of bread", such as what the risen Christ celebrated the very day He rose (Lk 24:30), just as He did at the Last Supper.
Understand also that Catholics understand the Word to be not only Scripture. We believe divine revelation is also transmitted in the Church, just as one of the criteria for identifying which books were considered divinely inspired included whether or not they were read in the churches.
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Thank you Mr. Polo for your response. This is helpful ... well, sorta'. You see, I still can't find any mention of the Mass in the New Testament. I find examples of the church coming together to worship, but no mention whatsoever of something called a "Mass." It seems as if the worship assembly of the church somehow got a proper noun designation (the Mass) for it that is foreign to God's word. At least, that's my current conclusion.
I spent a few minutes looking at the links you provided. A priest presides over the Mass, right? Okay, here are my thoughts on the role of the priest as I can determine in the New Testament:
- Jesus is our High Priest. He's not a Levitical priest, but a priest after the order of Melchizedek (See Hebrews 3:1; 5:6,10; and 7:17,21). Is He the priest presiding over the Mass?
- According to 1 Peter 2:9, all Christians are priests in God's service under the gospel of Christ. Therefore, it doesn't seem logical to designate a priest, when all are priests.
So, who is the priest that presides over the Mass? Specifically, I'm looking for the scriptural reference where a priest presided over the N.T. worship of the church, or the Scripture that discusses the priest and his role as viewed by those who participate in the Mass.
And, I also noted Chapter 7 of the full Didache concerning baptism. Where does the idea of "living water" come from in the Scriptures? Plus, there's the idea of cold over warm water, and if neither is available pouring water over the head three times being an acceptable substitute? And, there's the required fasting period of 1-2 before a person is baptized? I'm not trying to derail the discussion of the Mass, because the reasoning seems to be following a common theme, going beyond what the Scriptures say. However, I'd like to hear your response before I comment further. I'd really like to know where the authority for these requirements can be found in God's word.
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Okay, now I see just a little better where you are coming from ...
The Scriptures + Catholic transmitted teachings = the Word.
Sorry, but I don't quite buy into your reasoning. There's the matter of 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 4:11a, and James 1:21-25, for starters.
However, it does explain about the Mass and why I can't find anything about it in the New Testament. It's one of those Catholic transmitted teachings, right? Sometime after the first century, right? Outside of the written word of God, of course I'm referring to the "inspired" writings - the ones confirmed by the Lord and His apostles, right?
In essence, this discussion isn't really about the Mass per se, but about discerning the difference between the traditions of those who faithfully followed God versus those who followed the traditions of men as foretold in 1 Timothy 4:1-3, right?
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MrPolo
Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Indeed, the priest acts in the person of Christ at the mass. When priests are ordained in the Catholic Church, they are done so "in the order of Melchizedek." You can find many references to priests or bishops by searching a New Testament Greek lexicon for episcopes (bishops/overseers) or presbyteros (presbyters/priests). Or search passages in which the "laying of hands" is effected, which would also include deacons.
All are priests indeed. The Catholic Church recognizes a ministerial priesthood and the universal priesthood of all believers. One does not invalidate the other. It might fascinate you to read the Catholic Catechism on the nature of priests beginning at paragraph 1539. You can find all I've said reflected in here.
The word "Mass" is a later term, such as "Trinity" or "Incarnation" or, for some, "Rapture".
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