How Important Is Docterine When Finding a Mate?

CoachR64 · Aug 5, 2009

And again, Mike, like I said from the beginning, I have no problem in people having beliefs that do not pertain to salvation... the example you are using with gnostics is all about twisting and perverting scripture pertaining to salvation. That has nothing at all to do with using scripture to black non essential beliefs.

Coach

Blank123 · Aug 5, 2009

CoachR64 said:
No offense taken, tigress, I know you are just asking a question...

Like I stated earlier, I do believe their can be no compromise in the things that pertain to salvation. Salvation comes in Christ and Him crucified. Alone. Most other things are simply ways of worshiping Christ, and none of us do that the exact same way. I know some people that can sit and stare at mountains forever, praising God for the nature He created. Me, I'd get bored and go try and climb the mountain.

So, is someone believing Christ is going to come back and rapture His people before the tribulation or someone believing He is coming after, etc... stopping them from worshiping Christ and loving others?

I think the whole Christian thing is so much simpler than people make it out to be. God's word tells us that pure and faultless religion is to look after orphans and widows in their distress.... not doctrine, not man made rituals and rules, etc....

And yes, I think it is fine that Christians have a problem when people pervert and twist scripture to something mad made... That is not Biblical or scriptural. It is simply man made doctrine.

Coach

okay thanks Coach, that clears up my confusion

GQ Chris · Aug 5, 2009

if she has a subscription to Table Talk like I do, she just scored some Major points in the doctrine column.

Rosalila · Aug 5, 2009

^^lol.

Sheesh. It's hard enough finding genuine Christian men in real life (not on here). And now we're adding doctrinal issues to the mix. Might as well join a convent. I agree with those that said salvation is the key. I will rest easy knowing that my spouse is going to heaven with me and loves God as much as I do. That's all I need.

welshman · Aug 5, 2009

There is a monastery only an hour or so away from me on Caldey Island in Pembrokeshire. I have my name down for a room in 2019 when I reach 40 if I am still single lol

intricatic · Aug 5, 2009

Okay, operating under the assumption that you're saying "Person A in the relationship is a member and believer involved in some movement that shall be known as X, which is diametrically opposed to Y. Person B is a member and believer involved in some movement which shall be known as Y, which is diametrically opposed to X."

Then, sure. Doctrine is really important or else the two groups wouldn't be diametrically opposed to one another, or that consideration would be irrelevant to the discussion.

Rosalila · Aug 5, 2009

welshman said:
There is a monastery only an hour or so away from me on Caldey Island in Pembrokeshire. I have my name down for a room in 2019 when I reach 40 if I am still single lol

Not a bad idea. Haha.

Mikeb85 · Aug 5, 2009

Rosalila said:
^^lol.

Sheesh. It's hard enough finding genuine Christian men in real life (not on here). And now we're adding doctrinal issues to the mix. Might as well join a convent. I agree with those that said salvation is the key. I will rest easy knowing that my spouse is going to heaven with me and loves God as much as I do. That's all I need.

Really? You should come to our church, there's probably close to a dozen single men between the ages of 18 and 25 (and no single women) in a parish of just over 100. In fact, most of the Orthodox Churches I've been to have more young men than women...

Rosalila · Aug 5, 2009

^^Canada? Wow. Seems like NY is the worse place to be, in that respect. I really need to get out more. lol

GQ Chris · Aug 5, 2009

but doctrine is extremely important, just check out the thread "women's role in church", if you have two believers and they don't agree with each other's view of what responsibilities God has ordained for the man and woman, then that could be a huge divide in the relationship.

Llauralin · Aug 5, 2009

Mikeb85 said:
Really? You should come to our church, there's probably close to a dozen single men between the ages of 18 and 25 (and no single women) in a parish of just over 100. In fact, most of the Orthodox Churches I've been to have more young men than women...

Not the one's I've been to... We're more or less equal, and the one I'm at is tending toward the women. (we're also tending toward marriages - four this year, in a parish of 80 or so) EDIT: To be accurate, things were different in Alaska. But that's, you know, Alaska.

lostaquarium · Aug 6, 2009

Luther073082 said:
To say "I am not in communion with them." would mean that I have a irreconcilable difference in doctrine with that church. It doesn't mean that they are not Christians or are unsaved. Lutherans in general use only one guideline into determining if someone is Christian and saved. And that is if they belive in the holy trinity.

However just because we believe they are Christians and admit in our creed ("I belive in one holy catholic and apostolic church") that we are partially united with them in the body of Christ. We also stand up for the fact that we are also divided from them on important matters of doctrine.

Thanks for the clarification! Though I'm still confused.

From my perspective: The reason I feel close to other Christians is because we have all been saved, therefore we're all adopted brothers and sisters in Christ. Surely differences in doctrine don't matter if everyone's saved.

Mrs. Luther073082 · Aug 6, 2009

Differences in doctrine may not matter in being friends with other Christians and in the "big picture" in terms of going to Heaven, but here on Earth, big differences in beliefs between spouses could most definitely be a source of conflict. This thread and many others are evidence of that, as the differences in doctrine in people on CF have very often been a source of conflict. So yes, I think differences in doctrine are important to consider in finding a mate. They don't have to be a source of conflict, but they most certainly can be.

Also, I skimmed through this thread last night and here's some more thoughts/comments I had in regards to some of the off topic posts in this thread...

1. Yes I am a Lutheran and was one LONG before I even met Kirk. I was raised going to Lutheran churches so that's what denomination I went back to when I started believing in God again after a period of being an athiest.

In fact, that Kirk was an ELCA Lutheran is one of the things that I first noticed about him, and not the other way around. In my very first post on Kirk's guestbook years ago I said I was glad to see another ELCA Lutheran on the site.

2. It was insinuated that my fiance isn't able to humble himself about his beliefs. Food for thought: consider that he spent most of his life a liberal and an athiest, and now a lot of his beliefs are completely the opposite of what he spent the majority of his life believing.

Luther073082 · Aug 6, 2009

lostaquarium said:
From my perspective: The reason I feel close to other Christians is because we have all been saved, therefore we're all adopted brothers and sisters in Christ. Surely differences in doctrine don't matter if everyone's saved.

Well let me ask you a question. Does God approve of homosexual acts?

Most conservative Christians would say no and I would agree.

Are those who belive that homosexual acts are ok unsaved? No I don't think so.

Does that mean that it doesn't matter???? DEFINATLY NOT

Every mistake in doctrine is not living up to the standard God wants from us. Every bad practice we do (Such as how we might understand and use baptism) is not living up to God's standard.

In other words if you are right and God only wants adult's baptised as symbolism then myself and my church are in sin when we baptise an infant.

However if we are right, then you are in sin for cheapening God's sacrament in the baptism.

So here in is the problem. If I think you are in sin, do I want to declare full communion with you? (As to say that we are completly spiritually united?) No because if I say I'm completly united with you and your church then I am endorsing your bad practice.

There in lies the difference. We belive in one holy catholic and apostolic church. (We belive that all churchs & Christians share one solid foundation in Jesus Christ.) However we as Lutherans do not want to endorse the bad practices of other churchs.

CoachR64 · Aug 6, 2009

The problem isn't that you have different doctrinal beliefs. The problem is when you look down your nose and try to shove yous down the throats of others. When you call people heretics and liars and such because their doctrines are not the same, that is where the problem truly lies.

Coach

Llauralin · Aug 6, 2009

CoachR64 said:
The problem isn't that you have different doctrinal beliefs. The problem is when you look down your nose and try to shove yous down the throats of others. When you call people heretics and liars and such because their doctrines are not the same, that is where the problem truly lies.

Coach

It seems that if the relationship were to start becoming serious and you start thinking about children and living together and whatnot, it could certainly be an issue. Who gets to teach them about the faith? Or do they get both sides, and are quite confused for a while? How do you do prayers in the home? Like, I'd set up an icon corner and say morning and evening prayers - but most protestants aren't comfortable with that. And I kind of believe that we need to hold each other accountable for practicing our faith - how do we do that when the practices are very different?

overit · Aug 6, 2009

You can't jump to the conlusion of being in "sin" because different doctrine is practiced though-there's a clear distinction I believe.

Hereas my problem circling back...adding to the Book.....adding laws and about traditions....which the Bible warns us NOT to do.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

And in just browsing through the "small" concorde not EVEN the large one, it's evident to me...it's a MAN made manual of instructions/laws/personal views...and may be 'based' on Scripture but again it is NOT foolproof. God tells us not to ADD to His word-that would inclue a 500 page book explaining how to "understand Scripture" and how the laws/rituals/ceremonies of said church are the right/only way to be in the right path before God....and that's completely erroneous.

Llauralin · Aug 6, 2009

overit said:
You can't jump to the conlusion of being in "sin" because different doctrine is practiced though-there's a clear distinction I believe.

Hereas my problem circling back...adding to the Book.....adding laws and about traditions....which the Bible warns us NOT to do. ...

Your post is a good example of why it's important to marry someone with similar doctrinal views if you can help it. It would surely be aggravating if one partner was always thinking that the other was "adding vain beliefs," while said other was feeling a bit hounded about his/her beliefs. Either they'd stop talking about certain important areas of faith (and thus be unable to support each other), or there would be potential for a lot of tension.

Luther073082 · Aug 6, 2009

overit said:
You can't jump to the conlusion of being in "sin" because different doctrine is practiced though-there's a clear distinction I believe.

Hereas my problem circling back...adding to the Book.....adding laws and about traditions....which the Bible warns us NOT to do.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

And what laws do we add on?? I'm still waiting on specifics. You keep talking about all these man-made rituals and laws but you havn't given me a single law or instance of a law that we add on.

And at bookofconcord.org you can find the documents which detail every single doctrine we hold to be true and biblically sound. I've given you every opprotunity to find something specific you have a problem with. . .

Find something.

The problem is when you look down your nose and try to shove yous down the throats of others. When you call people heretics and liars and such because their doctrines are not the same, that is where the problem truly lies.

First of all I don't do that kind of name calling. I call specific doctrines heresy thats true. But calling a doctrine heresy is different from calling someone a heretic.

Calling homosexual acts detestable is not the same as calling a person who is gay to be detestable.

And why should we not try to convince others of true doctrines? Do we just let other Christians go when they live in sin or do we try to help them correct themselves? Bad worship practice and misguided doctrines are a way of living in sin. Taken far enough they can and often do lead people away from Christ completly.

Do we let non-Christians go or do we preach the gospel of the Lord to them?

On top of that I don't see and have never seen myself as shoving doctrines down people's throats. I think if you look back in about 90% of the doctrinal disputes I have been in, it was my beliefs (and my right to assert them as being 100% true) which has been attacked first. In fact I've found it to be true the more confident one openly is in their own doctrine, the more likely they are to be attacked for it.

Its sad so many Christians have fallen for accepting the fact that asserting that there is one truth about something is politically incorrect.

overit · Aug 6, 2009

Luther073082 said:
And what laws do we add on?? I'm still waiting on specifics. You keep talking about all these man-made rituals and laws but you havn't given me a single law or instance of a law that we add on.

And at bookofconcord.org you can find the documents which detail every single doctrine we hold to be true and biblically sound. I've given you every opprotunity to find something specific you have a problem with. . .

Find something.

Explain to me your "communion" process for one please. And since you attend one-and have spoken in detail about the "process" I'll let you explain. One look at the "principles or worship"...ugh...I mean really?

How does your confession process work? How does your churches communion/sacrament process work? Just starters I guess. How does it explain away adult baptism? I'm asking you-I don't have time to read through hundreds of pages worth of man doctrine when I have it in black and white in Scripture.

If you need pages worth of "instruction" to describe ONE verse, or pages worth of "defense of a ritual" - that in itself should raise flags-at least to me it does.

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