How important are the Apostles Canons?

[constance]

Orthodoxyusa, I haven't seen that particular icon before, can you tell me where it is and what it is called?

Constance

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

im gonna nick pick here but...

would St. Ignatius recognize the liturgy in use today? just wondering if that has changed since the time of St. Ignatius.

(btw St. Ignatius is an awesome saint. thats pretty cool that he was once the bishop of your church)

The Liturgy in use today is almost exactly the same as The Liturgy of St. James, the Liturgy St. Ignatuis used in the Antiochian Church...

Chirst is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[BjBarnett]

ive never heard of a statue in an Orthodox church.. I actually thought that was one of the "trade offs" between Orthodox and Catholics. you have the icons and we have the statues

 

[deu58]

Hi Orthodoxusa

You are talking about St. Ignatius who was eaten alive at the arena in Rome, at the hands of the Roman Empire, because he refused to renounce Orthodox Chistianity are you not?

I knew Ignatius was a martyr but I did not know it was because he refused to denounce orthodoxy,


"Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but one God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and one Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, whose kingdom may I enjoy." Trajan said, "Do you mean Him who was crucified under Pontius Pilate? "Ignatius replied, "I mean Him who crucified my sin, with him who was the inventor of it, and who has condemned [and cast down] all the deceit and malice of the devil under the feet of those who carry Him in their heart." Trajan said, "Dost thou then carry within thee Him that was crucified? "Ignatius replied, "Truly so; for it is written, `I will dwell in them, and walk in them.'" Then Trajan pronounced sentence as follows: "We command that Ignatius, who affirms that he carries about within him Him that was crucified, be bound by soldiers, and carried to the great [city] Rome, there to be devoured by the beasts, for the gratification of the people."

Hmmm seems to me Ignatius was martyred because he refused renounce Christ, Not Orthodoxy,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hi Orthodoxusa

Header and foot bar,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[BjBarnett]

Hmmm seems to me Ignatius was martyred because he refused renounce Christ, Not Orthodoxy,

yours in Christ
deu 58

at the time of Ignatius to be Christian meant to be apart of the one church of Christ. Ignatius did refuse to renounce Christ and thus was not renouncing his church either...

*note im not going into detail here cause me and OUSA are definatly gonna have different opinions on exactly what the church was and I dont want to derail the thread.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi Orthodoxusa


I knew Ignatius was a martyr but I did not know it was because he refused to denounce orthodoxy,


"Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but one God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and one Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, whose kingdom may I enjoy." Trajan said, "Do you mean Him who was crucified under Pontius Pilate? "Ignatius replied, "I mean Him who crucified my sin, with him who was the inventor of it, and who has condemned [and cast down] all the deceit and malice of the devil under the feet of those who carry Him in their heart." Trajan said, "Dost thou then carry within thee Him that was crucified? "Ignatius replied, "Truly so; for it is written, `I will dwell in them, and walk in them.'" Then Trajan pronounced sentence as follows: "We command that Ignatius, who affirms that he carries about within him Him that was crucified, be bound by soldiers, and carried to the great [city] Rome, there to be devoured by the beasts, for the gratification of the people."

Hmmm seems to me Ignatius was martyred because he refused renounce Christ, Not Orthodoxy,

yours in Christ
deu 58

All Christians were Orthodox if you don't count the Arian heretics.... they would have been happy if he would just bend the rules and claim anything other than the Orthodox Christian Truth....

What was Ignatius position with the Church? ~ He was the 3rd Bishop of Antioch..... that is an Orthodox Church... always has been...

Yes he refused to renounce Christ and yes he was an Orthodox Christian... an Antiochian, Syrian by birth...

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[deu58]

Hi Orthodoxusa,

As I said it appeared to be very old and worn, Considering that people pray to these things I guess they must have life and power in them,

Also as I said there is a Roman Catholic cathedral on the hill right next to the Orthodox Cathedral, So perhaps what happened was the idol was walking to the Roman Catholic hill and got lost and found it self at the Orthodox cathedral instead, Considering these hills are quite a climb I am sure the poor thing was tired and perhaps it was just taking a rest when I came in,

Maybe after I left the idol walked back down the hill and climbed the other hill to the right cathedral, Actually the locals said they were two Monastaries, Not cathedrals,

Could have been either cathedrals or monastaries,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

at the time of Ignatius to be Christian meant to be apart of the one church of Christ. Ignatius did refuse to renounce Christ and thus was not renouncing his church either...

*note im not going into detail here cause me and OUSA are definatly gonna have different opinions on exactly what the church was and I dont want to derail the thread.

At this point in history you and I would not have any disagreements.... We were one Church...

Ignatius was the 3rd Bishop of Antioch... My home Church... you would thing that his own Church would know him...

But I guess the Protestants know better.... they "can" read after all!

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

 

[BjBarnett]

Hi Orthodoxusa,

As I said it appeared to be very old and worn, Considering that people pray to these things I guess they must have life and power in them,

Also as I said there is a Roman Catholic cathedral on the hill right next to the Orthodox Cathedral, So perhaps what happened was the idol was walking to the Roman Catholic hill and got lost and found it self at the Orthodox cathedral instead, Considering these hills are quite a climb I am sure the poor thing was tired and perhaps it was just taking a rest when I came in,

Maybe after I left the idol walked back down the hill and climbed the other hill to the right cathedral, Actually the locals said they were two Monastaries, Not cathedrals,

man this is why they need to bring the smiley back...

 

[BjBarnett]

At this point in history you and I would not have any disagreements.... We were one Church...

yup and St. Ignatius did not renounce the teachings of that church i agree with you 100%.

Ignatius was the 3rd Bishop of Antioch... My home Church... you would thing that his own Church would know him...

But I guess the Protestants know better.... they "can" read after all!

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

no doubt...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi Orthodoxusa,

As I said it appeared to be very old and worn, Considering that people pray to these things I guess they must have life and power in them,

Also as I said there is a Roman Catholic cathedral on the hill right next to the Orthodox Cathedral, So perhaps what happened was the idol was walking to the Roman Catholic hill and got lost and found it self at the Orthodox cathedral instead, Considering these hills are quite a climb I am sure the poor thing was tired and perhaps it was just taking a rest when I came in,

Maybe after I left the idol walked back down the hill and climbed the other hill to the right cathedral, Actually the locals said they were two Monastaries, Not cathedrals,

Could have been either cathedrals or monastaries,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Well thanks for the STUPID comments.... "I guess they must have life and power in them"..... "Maybe after I left the idol walked back down the hill and climbed the other hill to the right cathedral"....

So you don't think we take this seriously?

Welcome to my ignore list if you wan't to continue this way....

Do you have any real questions or do you just want to continue to poke fun at "The Church"?

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[Iollain]

Makes perfect sence to me deu58

 

[deu58]

Hi BJ Barnett

at the time of Ignatius to be Christian meant to be apart of the one church of Christ. Ignatius did refuse to renounce Christ and thus was not renouncing his church either...


Actually that is exactly where I was going with this, The Roman Catholics also claim Ignatius as their own, One of you has got to be wrong, But my guess is you are both wrong,|

If a doctrine or a judgment is not based on scripture then it is not a doctrine or judgment approved of by God, I do not see Ignatius or any apostle being willing to to pray to mary or bend their knee to icons or idols,

The so called church universal that exists today has very little in common with the true church universal that existed then, We are many councils, creeds and traditions away from what they believed,


1co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius

Ac 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

Ac 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

Ac 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, |

Ac 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:


Re 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things.

Re 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[BjBarnett]

Actually that is exactly where I was going with this, The Roman Catholics also claim Ignatius as their own, One of you has got to be wrong, But my guess is you are both wrong,|

i just wanted to put emphasis on this one part here... you are wrong about this because we not disagree on Ignatius. Ignatius was the bishop of antioch and antioch is a eastern see meaning its apart of the current day Orthodox church. I dont deny that Igantius likly had the eastern culture like most of the other Eastern church members. what we disagree on is if he believed in papal authority... but thats a totally different thread.

 

[BjBarnett]

also it may be worthy to note that if the Orthodox and the Catholics are wrong we were not the 1 church at the time then all of Christianity is weakened IMO because that would mean that the gates of hell prevailed against the church until the protestants came along 1600 years later. but its historically impossible to deny that the Catholic church and the Orthodox church were one church before 1054 and were that way since the start of Christianity. IMO...

 

[deu58]

Hi orthodoxusa

Well, I have very seriously said that if you can not use the bible to prove your traditions are valid then they are with out merit and are not binding by the authority of God but by the authority of men.

I have very seriously said that to me you simply have your own oral Torah, something which Jesus despised, by which you judge others if they are worthy to members of the body of Christ,

I have never poked fun at THE church and I never would poke fun at THE church, I simply do not consider yours nor any other Catholic institution to be the THE church,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hi BJ barnett


also it may be worthy to note that if the Orthodox and the Catholics are wrong we were not the 1 church at the time then all of Christianity is weakened IMO because that would mean that the gates of hell prevailed against the church until the protestants came along 1600 years later. but its historically impossible to deny that the Catholic church and the Orthodox church were one church before 1054 and were that way since the start of Christianity. IMO...

The Jews also misapplied the law and spent many centuries developing the oral Torah, They were Gods church at that time, Does that mean that gates of hell succeded against Gods church?

No it did not, God sent his son to give the word to come out of her my people. If your church's are perfect and true and have not lost any thing then we should never hear that call again, But scripture says we shall hear that call one more time,

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

So must be God does not really think you have done such a great job of keeping his word and teachings pure

To apply your logic then when the Church split then the gates of hell must have prevailed over half of the church, You can not have more than one true church

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi orthodoxusa

Well, I have very seriously said that if you can not use the bible to prove your traditions are valid then they are with out merit and are not binding by the authority of God but by the authority of men.

I have very seriously said that to me you simply have your own oral Torah, something which Jesus despised, by which you judge others if they are worthy to members of the body of Christ,

I have never poked fun at THE church and I never would poke fun at THE church, I simply do not consider yours nor any other Catholic institution to be the THE church,

yours in Christ
deu 58

O.K. ~ Well I'm finished speaking with you...

Good evening

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....

 

[deu58]

Hi Orthodoxusa

Well, considering that you already agreed that you had no scriptural support for your church's traditions you never really had any thing to say in the first place, It is flat wrong for men to make up a bunch of unscriptural rules and apply them to the body Christ.

Now here is what I find strange, Making fun of a lifeless idol offends you but the fact that these very traditions that you cherish so much helped to bring about the inquisition that saw thousands, I have read before even millions, of innocent people to be tortured and executed, This does not seem to really bother you, Now that brother, I find offensive,

yours in Christ
deu 58