How I read "love your neighbor" as a 12 year old

[Roman57]

I was brought up in a secular Jewish family in Russia, so religion wasn't something that was in my mind a lot. In fact, religion was limitted to passover celebrations. Outside of that, I didn't think much about it.

So one of those days, when I was around 12, there was an article in the secular newspaper about 10 commandments: just introduce them to people. So my grandpa sat me down to read them to me. Not any specific point. Just a nice thing to read to a kid I guess. And when he read the commandment love your neighbor, I took it literally, as in love specifically my neighbor. Except that in Russian it doesn't read as "neighbor", it reads "the person close to you". So I understood it as in I am to love my family or something similar. But then my grandfather clarified to me that it means I am to love everyone. And I asked him "why are you saying everyone, if it says the person close to you?" He responded "by the person close to you, it means any person, since you should regard any person as close to you". And I was like how are we supposed to know it? If it wants us to believe everyone is close to us, why doesn't it say so?

Fast forward many years. I wasn't thinking back to this conversation up till now. Instead, I just used to the idea that this commandment says to love everyone, and was taking it this way. And for the most part everyone takes it that way too. Even the people to whom it is inconvenient, they would use the "hate the sin love the sinner" line, since they still assume that somehow that commandment applies to all people rather than some. I think there were VERY few times when I heard some Christian say that not everyone is your neighbor. But those times were very few, indeed. And that would typically be some Christian at the fringe. And I would assume they are twisting the words to suit their own "hateful" agendas.

But now that I remember this conversation with my grandpa back when I was little, I realize: its not them who twists the words, its everyone else who does. Because when I was 12 year old, I didn't have any agenda. In fact, like I said, religion wasn't anything I ever thought about. But taking "love your neighbor" to mean as "only" people closest to you was my own, natural, way to understand it. So who is doing the twisting here?

 

[look4hope]

Hi. This is such an interesting post. Has me thinking back to when I first remember hearing this commandment.
To be a kid, and have no agenda.
Those were the days

 

[Soyeong]

I was brought up in a secular Jewish family in Russia, so religion wasn't something that was in my mind a lot. In fact, religion was limitted to passover celebrations. Outside of that, I didn't think much about it.

So one of those days, when I was around 12, there was an article in the secular newspaper about 10 commandments: just introduce them to people. So my grandpa sat me down to read them to me. Not any specific point. Just a nice thing to read to a kid I guess. And when he read the commandment love your neighbor, I took it literally, as in love specifically my neighbor. Except that in Russian it doesn't read as "neighbor", it reads "the person close to you". So I understood it as in I am to love my family or something similar. But then my grandfather clarified to me that it means I am to love everyone. And I asked him "why are you saying everyone, if it says the person close to you?" He responded "by the person close to you, it means any person, since you should regard any person as close to you". And I was like how are we supposed to know it? If it wants us to believe everyone is close to us, why doesn't it say so?

Fast forward many years. I wasn't thinking back to this conversation up till now. Instead, I just used to the idea that this commandment says to love everyone, and was taking it this way. And for the most part everyone takes it that way too. Even the people to whom it is inconvenient, they would use the "hate the sin love the sinner" line, since they still assume that somehow that commandment applies to all people rather than some. I think there were VERY few times when I heard some Christian say that not everyone is your neighbor. But those times were very few, indeed. And that would typically be some Christian at the fringe. And I would assume they are twisting the words to suit their own "hateful" agendas.

But now that I remember this conversation with my grandma back when I was little, I realize: its not them who twists the words, its everyone else who does. Because when I was 12 year old, I didn't have any agenda. In fact, like I said, religion wasn't anything I ever thought about. But taking "love your neighbor" to mean as "only" people closest to you was my own, natural, way to understand it. So who is doing the twisting here?

Perhaps if should be understood as commanding to love everyone who comes close to us. There are over 8 billion people on this planet and is a number so large that we can't really conceptualize let alone love and relate to individually, so we need to prioritize the people who cross our paths that we can interact with, and if everyone does their part, then together we will bring about the restoration of the world. We are also instructed to love our enemies, so it is not just speaking the people who are relationally closest to us in terms of being friends and family.

 

[Bob Crowley]

You can only love people in the practical sense in two ways. The first way is to treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself. That's only possible if you have personal contact with them - your family, your literal neighbours, people you meet on the street, in church or the synagogue (assuming you're Jewish as stated), your work mates and so on.

You can "love" people at a distance by possibly donating to a charity, maybe getting involved in some political or ethical cause if you think people are being treated unfairly and so on.

I've often claimed on this forum, and long before I became a member, that on the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. In his own words, he said "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!". That was his own admission.

One of my bugbears has been the lack of what might be called a "vocation" or "career". At one point I said to him "You know what really gets me is that because of you (having deliberately destroyed my confidence, again by his own admission) I haven't had a career" (or words to that effect).

His reply wasn't what I expected. He said "It's not even importan!" (career, position in society, how well paid or famous we are etc.).

I snapped back "Then what is!!??"

He said "How you treat other people!"

Which is just another way of saying "Love your neighbour as yourself". It was too late for him, but obviously he could see things from his brief supernatural vantage point that had been hidden from him until the moment he died.

A few minutes or maybe seconds later he disappeared with one blood curdling scream, and it was obvious something was coming for him.

Faith is only part of the story. We're going to be judged very much on how we treated other people, and that's the problem with "sin". It causes people to mistreat themselves (eg. addictions, stupid behaviour), other people, animals, the environment, and creation in general.

That's why God hates it.

 

[Soyeong]

You can only love people in the practical sense in two ways. The first way is to treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself. That's only possible if you have personal contact with them - your family, your literal neighbours, people you meet on the street, in church or the synagogue (assuming you're Jewish as stated), your work mates and so on.

You can "love" people at a distance by possibly donating to a charity, maybe getting involved in some political or ethical cause if you think people are being treated unfairly and so on.

I've often claimed on this forum, and long before I became a member, that on the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. In his own words, he said "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!". That was his own admission.

One of my bugbears has been the lack of what might be called a "vocation" or "career". At one point I said to him "You know what really gets me is that because of you (having deliberately destroyed my confidence, again by his own admission) I haven't had a career" (or words to that effect).

His reply wasn't what I expected. He said "It's not even importan!" (career, position in society, how well paid or famous we are etc.).

I snapped back "Then what is!!??"

He said "How you treat other people!"

Which is just another way of saying "Love your neighbour as yourself". It was too late for him, but obviously he could see things from his brief supernatural vantage point that had been hidden from him until the moment he died.

A few minutes or maybe seconds later he disappeared with one blood curdling scream, and it was obvious something was coming for him.

Faith is only part of the story. We're going to be judged very much on how we treated other people, and that's the problem with "sin". It causes people to mistreat themselves (eg. addictions, stupid behaviour), other people, animals, the environment, and creation in general.

That's why God hates it.

Treating other people well is not a different part of the story than faith, but rather it is the way to have faith that treating others well is what is important.

 

[Roman57]

Hi. This is such an interesting post. Has me thinking back to when I first remember hearing this commandment.
To be a kid, and have no agenda.
Those were the days

Yes, I totally agree with you. I miss those childhood days! Having no agenda. And having all the rest of the life in front of me.

So what do you recall from reading "love your neighbor" for the very first time?

 

[Roman57]

There are over 8 billion people on this planet and is a number so large that we can't really conceptualize let alone love and relate to individually

Well, an example of "loving" millions of people all at once would be democrats wanting to raise taxes. But, as it turns out, Republicans contribute more to local charities. So I guess republicans are slightly closer to hearing the word "neighbor"

Still, however. The fact that you can "explain" the neighbor in a way that includes all the people you encounter, it doesn't mean it "has" to be the case. If that verse was referring to your family, it would have made just as much sense. So, yeah, I see a lot of "traditions of men" in the way everyone choose to read that verse.

 

[Soyeong]

Well, an example of "loving" millions of people all at once would be democrats wanting to raise taxes. But, as it turns out, Republicans contribute more to local charities. So I guess republicans are slightly closer to hearing the word "neighbor"

Still, however. The fact that you can "explain" the neighbor in a way that includes all the people you encounter, it doesn't mean it "has" to be the case. If that verse was referring to your family, it would have made just as much sense. So, yeah, I see a lot of "traditions of men" in the way everyone choose to read that verse.

Love must be freely given, so we can't love someone by forcing someone else to give them money, and even if we freely give money, there are many ways of showing love that are better than through the least efficient means through the government. In Luke 10:25-37, Jesus was asked about who is our neighbor and replied with the parable of the Good Samaritan, where the one who had mercy on the man who had fallen into the hands of robbers was a neighbor to them, so that extends further than our immediate family.

 

[Roman57]

Love must be freely given, so we can't love someone by forcing someone else to give them money, and even if we freely give money, there are many ways of showing love that are better than through the least efficient means through the government.

I agree with you. I just rephrased the point you just made in terms of the content of the original post. In particular, you do need to take the word "neighbor" literally as "neighbor". Because if you don't, you are led to a "fake love", as exemplified by what democratic party is doing.

In Luke 10:25-37, Jesus was asked about who is our neighbor

So, apparently, I wasn't the only person who asked that question. Yet, that other person that asked it, did so in 1-st century (as opposed to 20-th or 21-st century). That is probably because, by the time of 20-th or 21-st century, people were conditioned not to ask it. Since they are conditioned to reading "LoveYourNeighbor" as one word, as opposed to three words. Hence they don't notice the word neighbor in there. Back in the 1-st century that wasn't the case yet. Thats why that question was asked.

By the way, can you elaborate on your belief system? You quoted Luke, so you do believe in Jesus. Yet you made reference to "repairing the world" (in post number 3) which is Jewish concept. Normally if I see both Christian and Jewish sounding references, I assume the person is Messianic. But "reparing the world" isn't normally mentioned in Messianic circles either. One has to be traditional Jew (the kind that reject Jesus) to use that term (which is because according to the Christian bible, the world would get worse and worse, culminating in antichrist, and then will be "repared" in an instant when Jesus would consume antichrist with the brightness of his coming -- so that doesn't leave a room to "reparing the world" as a gradual process). So what are your beliefs exactly? Your user name sounds Chinese, which makes it even more puzzling.

As far as me, I was born Jewish but I came to believe in Jesus as an adult. So back when my grandpa was reading me 10 commandments, I didn't believe in Jesus. I would have assumed my grandpa didn't either. Except that I found some Messianic literature when I was going through his appartment several years after he died. So I don't know if he believed any of it or was just collecting stuff people handed him on the street. Who knows. The newspaper with 10 commandments was directed to non-Jewish, secular audience.

 

[Soyeong]

By the way, can you elaborate on your belief system? You quoted Luke, so you do believe in Jesus. Yet you made reference to "repairing the world" (in post number 3) which is Jewish concept. Normally if I see both Christian and Jewish sounding references, I assume the person is Messianic. But "reparing the world" isn't normally mentioned in Messianic circles either. One has to be traditional Jew (the kind that reject Jesus) to use that term (which is because according to the Christian bible, the world would get worse and worse, culminating in antichrist, and then will be "repared" in an instant when Jesus would consume antichrist with the brightness of his coming -- so that doesn't leave a room to "reparing the world" as a gradual process). So what are your beliefs exactly? Your user name sounds Chinese, which makes it even more puzzling.

My congregation is Beth Immanuel, which practices Orthodox Judaism in accordance with believing in Jesus as the Messiah, so it alone is at the Orthodox end of Messianic Judaism, though if I recall correctly, I was exposed to the concept of tikkun olam before I became a Messianic and also while I was part of Messianic congregation that is not Orthodox, though the assistant rabbi was wanting to lean more in that direction.

I see tikkun olam as going hand in hand with the goal of spreading the Gospel of Messiah in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith of being a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness (Matthew 4:15-23, Acts 3:25-26, Galatians 3:8), so if it is opposed to thoughts about the coming of the antichrist, then so is believing that we should spread the Gospel. Regardless of how good or bad the world gets, our goal should be to be repairers the world and to teach others to be repairers of the world in by spreading the Gospel and inheriting the promise through faith faith by doing the same works that our father Abraham did. In Galatians 3:26-29, if we are children of God through faith in Messiah, then we are children of Abraham and heirs of the promise, and in John 8:39, Messiah said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works that he did. So even though the promise is ultimately about the Messiah and what he will do, as those who are born again in the image of Messiah, we still need to inherit the promise through faith by doing our part to bless/restore the world.

I used to play an MMORPG based on ancient Korean mythology and my user name is from the name of my main character. I asked my mom if she new any Korean names and that was the name of one of her coworkers.

As far as me, I was born Jewish but I came to believe in Jesus as an adult. So back when my grandpa was reading me 10 commandments, I didn't believe in Jesus. I would have assumed my grandpa didn't either. Except that I found some Messianic literature when I was going through his appartment several years after he died. So I don't know if he believed any of it or was just collecting stuff people handed him on the street. Who knows. The newspaper with 10 commandments was directed to non-Jewish, secular audience.

My mom was born as a Jew and became a Christian in her 20's, so I grew up attending a Baptist Congregation and did not become Messianic until I was an adult. Today, Christianity is often seen as being a different religion than Judaism, however, I don't think that Jesus came to start his own religion, but rather he came as the Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he spent his ministry teaching people how to correctly practice Judaism in obedience to the Torah. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith in Messiah who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with what Messiah gave himself to accomplish in Titus 2:14. Not all Jews were zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah, such as Herodians or those who were secular, so I'd argue that they were becoming zealous for the Torah in accordance with coming to believe the Gospel. Paul also continued to identify as a Jew in Acts 21:39 and 22:3, so Jews coming to faith in Messiah were not ceasing to be Jews or ceasing to practice Judaism in obedience to the Torah, which means that there was a period of time between the refraction of Messiah and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews, so Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah and that is the form of Christianity that I seek by faith to practice.

There are many Christians today who have Jews in their ancestry and many Jews who are not able to openly be followers of Jesus, so it would not surprise me if you grandpa were Messianic, though there is insufficient evidence.

 

[Roman57]

My congregation is Beth Immanuel, which practices Orthodox Judaism in accordance with believing in Jesus as the Messiah, so it alone is at the Orthodox end of Messianic Judaism,

I explored both ends of Messianic Judaism. So I am aware of the Messianic Jews that claim that Jesus is Messiah but not God (www.torahofmessiah.com) as well as Messianic Jews that reject Paul while accepting the rest of New Testament (www.judaismvschristianity.com) And I am even aware of Messianic Jews that only accept Hebrew Matthew and thats it (www.netzarim.co.il)

I gather you believe in Paul, since you quoted some verses from his writings. But what about deity of Jesus, what are your beliefs in this regard?

And since you do believe in Paul, then it means you are not "completely" on the Orthodox end, although I see how you can say you are close.

What are your thoughts about Oral Law? As far as the website www.torahofmessiah.com goes, it rejects it, as far as www.netzarim.co.il goes it accepts it. I am not sure about www.judaismvschristianity.com I would have to look to see where it stands in this regard.

I am not sure why being "on Orthodox end" would make you any more likely to want to "repair the world". Even if you reject deity of Jesus and reject Paul, I assume you still accept the Book of Revelation. So you still know to oppose the antichrist? Or are you saying you reject the Book of Revelation too? Which books of the New Testament do you believe in?

Thank you for explaining about the origins of your user name. So since your mom was born Jewish, I gather she is causasian, as most Jews are? What about your dad, is he Asian by any chance? Or is he also causasian?

In my case I am Ashkinazi Jew by all lines.

 

[Soyeong]

I explored both ends of Messianic Judaism. So I am aware of the Messianic Jews that claim that Jesus is Messiah but not God (www.torahofmessiah.com) as well as Messianic Jews that reject Paul while accepting the rest of New Testament (www.judaismvschristianity.com) And I am even aware of Messianic Jews that only accept Hebrew Matthew and thats it (www.netzarim.co.il)

I gather you believe in Paul, since you quoted some verses from his writings. But what about deity of Jesus, what are your beliefs in this regard?

And since you do believe in Paul, then it means you are not "completely" on the Orthodox end, although I see how you can say you are close.

Indeed, there are a number of flavors of Messianic Judaism. Beth Immanuel is not associated with First Fruits of Zion (FIRST FRUITS OF ZION), though a number of its content creators are members of our congregation. I accept the deity of Jesus and all of the the NT, though I do not interpret Paul as being opposed to Orthodox Judaism to any extent. We do things like on Shabbat we have shacharit, musaf, kiddush, minchah, third meal, maariv, and havdalah, we cant the Torah portion from an halachically kosher Torah scroll when we have a minyan of 10 halachically Jewish men, and we have an halachically kosher kitchen.

I believe that is is very likely that Jesus was a Pharisee especially considering that in regard to the debates between Hillel and Shammai, Jesus was virtually in complete agreement with Hillel. Paul never stopped identifying as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), there were Pharisees among the believers (Acts 15:5), and Pharisees are a Torah observant sect of Judaism. In 1 Corinthians 11:1, Paul said to be imitators of him as he is an imitator of Jesus, which means that we are to be imitators of a Pharisee who was an imitator of another Pharisee. In Matthew 23:2-4, Jesus recognized the authority of the Pharisees by saying that they sit on the seat of Moses and instructed his followers to do whatever they said, but spoke against their pride and hypocrisy, though Jesus was not the only Pharisee to do that. In 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, and 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Paul passed on Jewish traditions.

What are your thoughts about Oral Law? As far as the website www.torahofmessiah.com goes, it rejects it, as far as www.netzarim.co.il goes it accepts it. I am not sure about www.judaismvschristianity.com I would have to look to see where it stands in this regard.

In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, it gives the basis for the Oral Law and I think that there is much of value that we can learn from it and much that the average Christian would agree with, especially because a lot of the same things that Jesus taught are also found in it, but even in the matters that it is not recorded that he taught about, the average Christ would still have room to agree with many things that it teaches without considering it to be Scripture.

I am not sure why being "on Orthodox end" would make you any more likely to want to "repair the world". Even if you reject deity of Jesus and reject Paul, I assume you still accept the Book of Revelation. So you still know to oppose the antichrist? Or are you saying you reject the Book of Revelation too? Which books of the New Testament do you believe in?

Thank you for explaining about the origins of your user name. So since your mom was born Jewish, I gather she is causasian, as most Jews are? What about your dad, is he Asian by any chance? Or is he also causasian?

In my case I am Ashkinazi Jew by all lines.

Sorry, I didn't say that being on the Orthodox end makes me more likely to want to repair the world. Yes, I know to oppose the antichrist.

Both of my parents are caucasian. My mom is also Ashkinazi, but my dad is not Jewish.

 

[Stephen3141]

It is difficult to hold this conversation, about loving "your neighbor", with Christians, as this command is a quote from the Jewish Scriptures. That is where the concept is defined.

In the Jewish law, non-Jews were invited to live in the land of Israel, but the law of Moses applied to them, as well as to Jews. This is not the case with Christians, who live among non-Christian Americans.

And so, the question is, for Christians, what does "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" mean?

Obviously, the same question comes up in first century Judaism, when someone asked Jesus what this phrase means ("who is my neighbor?").

It is a difficult question for Christians, because Christian congregations are commanded to cast out those members who are habitually engaging in serious sins. This means that "loving your neighbor" does not mean tolerating his serious sinning. At least, if that person is claiming to be a Christian.

Paul also commands that Christians should not be hanging around with evil people. This does not mean withdrawing from all contact with non-Christians, but there is a preference that Paul is stating. This tends to suggest that our "neighbor" will be Christians, or those who are friendly to Christian beliefs.

Paul's commands suggest also, that Jesus' statements of the 2 biggest summaries of the law, are still summaries of the law of God. Loving God, and loving our neighbor, are not substitutions for keeping the law of God. And this suggests that Christians' relations with non-Christians should still be within the context of keeping God's moral-ethical law. This is not at all the common/popular understanding of "you shall love your neighbor as yourself".

Those who try to sell this 2nd most important command as general humanitarianism, forget that these 2 guidelines of Jesus are ways to fulfill the law of God, not to ignore it or replace it with atheistic humanitarianism.