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DoubtingThomas29 said:I feel that if we know religion is man made, for instance we know Mohammed did not talk to an angle in a cave. Then we can conclude only one thing God is a man made idea here
How do you know that if we were created by a God that there would be evidence of such? There is an absence of evidence, but it does not mean that there is no God. It just means there is no evidence of one.DoubtingThomas29 said:If God created man then there would b e evidence of that, and all we have is an absence of evidence.
For me and where I experience my Beloved God I'd have to say that God IS the universe and all life on Earth. Saying that God "made" it all and than stepped back is not the right angle of the experience of God for me. But that's how I "experience" God. It IS NOT how I define God.Forexample some people define God to be that which made the universe and all life on the Earth.
Evolution is unrelated to the cosmology and abiogenesis. It only deals with self-replicating systems and the frequency of traits thereof.Forexample some people define God to be that which made the universe and all life on the Earth. If that is your definition of God then yes I believe in God because it was evolution that made the whole universe and the Earth and all life on the Earth. You had cosmological evolution and biological evolution that made everything out of less than two hundred different elements off of the periodic table. The periodic table is natures alphabet.
Just as our 26 letters make up every word in our language, the elements on the periodic table make up everything in the universe. It is so cool to know that.
A fly, is a fly, is a fly. You never see a fly be anything but a fly. Okay, the occasional horsefly. If we evolved from apes, why are apes still here?Speaking of the Old Testament, remember the story about Noah's Ark? Well we can prove that that story is a fairy tale, just by looking st the fact there are trillions of species of insects on the planet and to hve two of every kind of insect on a boat is simply impossible.
Therefore Noah's Ark is a made up story.
QED
This does in fact mean, we cannot read the fantastic stories of the bible and just believe them seriously, because there is at least one story that is completely false.
Also the story about the Sun stopping in te sky, that could not happen either without jolting the Earth and killing everybody. The story about that lady that looked back at a city to see it go down in flames, the bible says she turned into a pillar of salt, but tha is impossible because matter cannot be created or destroyed and also of E=mC^2, her atoms had to go somewhere, they just couldn't turn into NaCl, Sodium Chloride.
Then in the New Testament there is more stories that are hard to believe, look at the evidence. Look at the fact that Christianity was an oppressed cult for hundreds of years before Emperor Constatine decided to convert the Empire to christianity.
There is tons of evidence that the christia story is another made up religion by men. The bible is written by men, not God.
If God does not exist, then there is in fact a absence of evidence, which is what we have, our world only makes sense we assume God is imaginary, when you look at the Hindu Religion, the Muslim religion and the Christian religion you are looking at a collection of stories that about four billion people adhere to, and they are all right about the other person's religion. Religion is man made, there is no God, and we are merly sophisticated animals wandering the planet, some wondering who made the Earth, and still others wondering what made the Earth.
It wasn't a who that made you and me, it was a what that made us, that what is the natural process called evolution.
Think about it.
If Americans came from Europeans, why do Europeans still exist?A fly, is a fly, is a fly. You never see a fly be anything but a fly. Okay, the occasional horsefly. If we evolved from apes, why are apes still here?
Where did your God come from?The process of evolution and/or random creation simply does not make sense. I honestly believe that the Big Bang is probably true. But does not physics show us that there has to be energy behind everything? Where did that energy come from?
Your analogy is flawed: evolution does not imply that everything just 'happened' to pop into place 'just so'. There is nothing accidental about it.Also to consider that we were created by a series of systematically fortunate events, considering how complicated even one tiny strand of DNA is, is like saying you can shake a puzzle box and have it fall into place. What are the chances?
"Objection!"If Americans came from Europeans, why do Europeans still exist?
Nothing about evolution implies that the old species should disappear.
And for the record, we are apes. We are also monkeys.
Agreed, but the analogy is pertinant: the plaintiff made an appeal to distinctions between species which, under the evolutionary worldview, are as relevant as the European/American distinction.((I'll have fun with this and go all Phoenix Wright style on you))
"Objection!"
But there's one big difference; that is a statement of CULTURE, not race. Humans are humans. Thus this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Your honour, I fail to see the distinction."Objection!"
But then, what you seem to be implying would not be Evolution with the big E, but evolution in regards to "adaptation".
Objection, unreasonably high standards of proof. The plaintiff's defense is also holding a double standard.Of course, I'm talking about the "old species" thing, not the "we came from apes" thing. A white moth can adapt into a black one if it's environment changes and affects the moth's "camoflauge" by changing the white bark to black bark, making the moth easily spotted by predators. Thus in order to survive, adaptation becomes necessary. Humans and apes are different species. Though we are similar, there is no proof we came from this species, nor of Evolution itself. Give me some cold hard facts that we came from apes. And I mean what I say in that last statement. Cold....HARD..... FACTS!!!!!
* points finger as he says this last word*
Overruled.LOL, that was fun.
Consider this; if God is the creator of all things; time, space, energy, matter, and science as we know it, how then can you ask how God was created? Hmm...If Americans came from Europeans, why do Europeans still exist?
Nothing about evolution implies that the old species should disappear.
And for the record, we are apes. We are also monkeys.
Where did your God come from?
Whatever answer you give to that, can be applied to the 'Where did energy come from?' question.
Your analogy is flawed: evolution does not imply that everything just 'happened' to pop into place 'just so'. There is nothing accidental about it.
Hello again, Crujir
Preciesly my point: if he created all things, where did he come from himself?Consider this; if God is the creator of all things; time, space, energy, matter, and science as we know it, how then can you ask how God was created? Hmm...
Who are you to define what applies to the universe? We don't even understand a small fraction of it, much less all of it. God has always been is a fallacy, because in religious theory God does not exist in time, his was, and is, and forever will be. As he is present at all moments in time simultaneously.Preciesly my point: if he created all things, where did he come from himself?
The typical answer to this is "he's always been". Philosophical quandries aside, why can't this answer apply to the universe, or to energy/matter?
I simply asked, 'Why not?'. The buden of proof is on those who say there must be a First Cause.Who are you to define what applies to the universe?
So why can't energy/matter exist in such a state? Who are you to define what applies to the universe?We don't even understand a small fraction of it, much less all of it. God has always been is a fallacy, because in religious theory God does not exist in time, his was, and is, and forever will be. As he is present at all moments in time simultaneously.
Actually, we can't: to ask 'What happened before...?' implies that there was a 'before'. It makes no sense to ask what happened before time began, just as it makes no sense to ask what's North of the North pole.we can say that just before the singularity exploded, there was no time
NavyGuy7 said:I suggest there is probably more evidence that God exists than that Evolution, or even the "big bang" (which is even more ridiculous, in my opinion, as there is even LESS evidence) is true.
Why not? If you concede that we are related to mammals, why not apes?Though I can't really say we are a group of apes. Mammals, sure, we are, but apes, no i don't think so. For one, we may be similar, but with all the species in the world, something was bound to be similar to us. But I don't think "evolution" had anything to do with it.
Why do you expect them to?I believe humans are different in a few ways, not just the physical. Apes really don't have their own forum, do they? LOL, thus we are different due to our "consciousness". We know we exist, and we also know we have a far greater potential than just scratching our butts all day. (though some of us do that anyway, but out of boredom and laziness). I always wondered what our place in nature was, and I figured it out. We are adapters. We use whatever is at our disposal and, through a little creative thinking and knowledge, can make extraordinary things. Humans have this distinct advantage in this area over any other animal in the world. I have yet to see an ape create the first non-human light bulb on his own.
A point: clothing is a necessity for humans who move beyond our evolutionary niche of Africa. It's somewhat colder elsewhere, hence the need for clothing.I have yet to see them realize they are naked and make some clothing, ON THEIR OWN.
Why? Evolution is not progressive in the sense that all organisms are evolving to one goal (to which humans are the closest, presumably). Gorillas are just as evolved as us, but their brains never evolved like our brains did; there is no selective pressure to.Thus, if the evolution theory says we came from apes, why haven't the other apes tried adapting as we have? You'd think if we came from the same group, the others would eventually follow suit.
It explains all modern biodiversity on Earth. The entire field of biology does not make sense without it.But I still hold that the theory of evolution is incorrect. It makes no real sense, when one truly thinks about it.
To which I cite:Plus, there is no real evidence to support it.
Why? It is incredibly rare for an organism to fossilise; the conditions required are rather precise. Not to mention the fact that bones turn to dust in the hundreds of thousands of years involved.If we came from apes, one would think there would be a skeleton of some sort in the transitioning stages,
and have it be the real deal, too. Not just some sort of hoax like someone tried to pull once.
As a scientist, I should hope that I am scientific (and whatnot). But you are making textbook mistake after textbook mistake:But I still see no "decisive evidence". Thus one must assume the whole "wrong before proven" verdict over this whole mess. Making it just a theory, not truth. That is, if you are the type to be real scientific and whatnot.
Both theories have tremendous amounts of evidence to support them. To justify such a claim, you're going to have to start by presenting some evidence for the existance of God (I wouldn't mind a definition of 'God' either; this is science, after all).Yes, I realize the whole evidence thing can be used against me, as well. But my statement still stands.
I suggest there is probably more evidence that God exists than that Evolution, or even the "big bang" (which is even more ridiculous, in my opinion, as there is even LESS evidence) is true.
Funny, you could say the exact same thing about religion.These two theories of Evolution and Big Bang do not hold up under the heat. Though stubbornness has been known to be very, uh, stubborn. Just another part of our humanity, I suppose, part of our "adaptation" abilities.
And I suppose Evolution is all the more probable, explainable, and likely to have happened than the miracles found in the Bible? If God had to fit within His creation and follow the laws of nature that really wouldn't say anything about Him would it? That's why miracles are called super-natural. How do you explain away healings that happen to people today that can't be explained medically and things like that?
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