How I became a Calvinist

[Elect]

I am not a new Christian. I have been a Christian since 1982. I guess you could say that I am still a young Calvinist. I have been a Calvinist since 2003.

In the year 2000 I started to see Calvinistic teachings in the Word and did not know it was Calvinistic in nature. I was reading in the Gospel of John and I read that no one comes to Me unless it is giving to him from the Father. That blew me away. I had never seen that before. At the rate I was going, it would be another 18 years probably before I became a full Calvinist. The Lord does have a way of speeding things up.

In 2003 I knew that no one comes to Jesus unless it was given to him. I knew that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit. I knew that the preaching of the cross was foolishness to them that are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God to Salvation. I knew that the gospel was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks. I had known for a very long time that someone coming to Jesus took a drawing from God. I did not know that all that He draws will come. About a month before God completely removed the vail from my eyes, I knew that the real reason for the parables, that God does hold truth from some.

Then about a month later a coworker left the night shift and came to days, the shift that I work. That same day I was discussing Theology with another coworker and he came and sat down beside us. He listen for a few minutes and he said "I am a Calvinist and this Is what I believe.........." This was more than the guy I was talking to could handle and without saying a word he got up out of his chair and walked away. I turned to this Calvinist and said "Don't you think that is a little extreme?" He said " it's in the Bible." I told him that "I was going to check this out." And so I did.

The next two months I was in Awe of God and His Word. It was right there in my face for 20 years and I did not see it. I see it now! The Great God and Creator of the universe revealed Himself to me in a way that I had never known Him before! Jim later told me that he was lead by the Spirit to come over and sit down with us.

I even searched out Arminian arguments to refute Calvinism because I wanted the truth. Their arguments were to no avail. God had open my eyes to the truth and there was no going back! The one doctrine that I really had trouble with was of course the dreaded "Limited Atonement." I tried for about a week to be a four point Calvinist. God said nope! You will be Five! It was not consistent Theology.

When God reveals to someone who He really is and how His grace works, it is a very humbling thing. God's Election becomes such a beautiful thing. My commitment and my love for Him is stronger than it ever was before. I belong to Him and He will never let me go. I am forever in His dept.

 

[bitwise]

I am glad that you have come to a knowledge of the Truth! When you look back on your own life doesn't it become apparent that although we professed to know Him our entire lives it becomes obvious that we did not, and that God must absolutely call us onto Himself before we would ever truly come to Him? Strange isn't it?

_________________________________________________________________

Nevertheless, I want to state something that is an annoyance to me, and I mean no disrespect to you Elect, but it is something I think is very important to be said. I think it is best, to avoid using labels such as Calvinists. I am not a "Calvinists", I am a Christian, and I feel it is best to defend what the Bible says rather than to defend Calvin. John Calvin wrote and did a lot of things that I do not agree with. For example, did you know that John Calvin believed in killing heretics? In the second paragraph of the, "Institutes of the Christian Religion", by John Calvin, he appealed to the King and his government with the plea,

"For I fear not to declare, that what I have here given may be regarded as a summary of the very doctrine which, they [Papist] vociferate, ought to be punished with confiscation, exile, imprisonment, and flames, as well as exterminated by land and sea." - John Calvin

My goal is not to get into a deep discussion of what John Calvin believed, but merely to state that I think we should be very cautious about labeling ourselves something other than Christ-ians. I do not think we should take upon ourselves the name of another man. Although I appreciate the works of John Calvin and the reformers for standing upon the truth of God's Word in light of their situation, we must not think of them more highly than we ought to think.

Remember what the apostle Paul said,

"12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" - 1Cor 1:12-14.

Was John Calvin crucified for you? If the apostle Paul says not to label yourselves by his own name, then how much more so would the apostle Paul forbid us to be called by the name of Calvinist!? Please, truly think about this.

-bit

 

[Elect]

I am glad that you have come to a knowledge of the Truth! When you look back on your own life doesn't it become apparent that although we professed to know Him our entire lives it becomes obvious that we did not, and that God must absolutely call us onto Himself before we would ever truly come to Him? Strange isn't it?

_________________________________________________________________

Nevertheless, I want to state something that is an annoyance to me, and I mean no disrespect to you Elect, but it is something I think is very important to be said. I think it is best, to avoid using labels such as Calvinists. I am not a "Calvinists", I am a Christian, and I feel it is best to defend what the Bible says rather than to defend Calvin. John Calvin wrote and did a lot of things that I do not agree with. For example, did you know that John Calvin believed in killing heretics? In the second paragraph of the, "Institutes of the Christian Religion", by John Calvin, he appealed to the King and his government with the plea,

"For I fear not to declare, that what I have here given may be regarded as a summary of the very doctrine which, they [Papist] vociferate, ought to be punished with confiscation, exile, imprisonment, and flames, as well as exterminated by land and sea." - John Calvin

My goal is not to get into a deep discussion of what John Calvin believed, but merely to state that I think we should be very cautious about labeling ourselves something other than Christ-ians. I do not think we should take upon ourselves the name of another man. Although I appreciate the works of John Calvin and the reformers for standing upon the truth of God's Word in light of their situation, we must not think of them more highly than we ought to think.

Remember what the apostle Paul said,

"12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" - 1Cor 1:12-14.

Was John Calvin crucified for you? If the apostle Paul says not to label yourselves by his own name, then how much more so would the apostle Paul forbid us to be called by the name of Calvinist!? Please, truly think about this.

-bit

I agree with you! I use the word Calvinist because it is used to describe a belief system like the Doctrines of grace. John Calvin is not relevant to me. Calvinism is the name to describe the belief system that I ad hear too. In the beginning I shunned the word but it is hard to get away from it. Even if I don't use the word it will be thrown at me anyway. When I defend scripture I don't use Calvin's stuff anyway. I use scripture and at times I quote from others but it has not been from Calvin. I want to be known as a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ!

 

[bitwise]

I agree with you! I use the word Calvinist because it is used to describe a belief system like the Doctrines of grace. John Calvin is not relevant to me. Calvinism is the name to describe the belief system that I ad hear too. In the beginning I shunned the word but it is hard to get away from it. Even if I don't use the word it will be thrown at me anyway. When I defend scripture I don't use Calvin's stuff anyway. I use scripture and at times I quote from others but it has not been from Calvin. I want to be known as a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ!

Excellent, I am truly happy to hear this! However, if you are labeled a "Calvinist" because others identify you as such because of certain beliefs, then that does not, I believe, give us the liberty to perpetuate the term upon ourselves. I like to think about how the apostles might have responded? Do you think the apostle Paul or John would have called themselves Calvinist even though it was only a name to identify themselves with certain beliefs? I dare say that they certainly would not have done so. Why do you think the Corinthians said that I am of Paul, or that I am of Apollos, etc? They said so to identify themselves with certain beliefs taught by those individuals because their name could have been used to describe the belief system that they adhered too; however, the Word of God says to avoid it. I am not suggesting that the fruit does not look pleasant to the eyes, or that it would not make things easier for us in this apostate age, what I'm suggesting is that it is banned in Scripture, and therefore, regardless of what we think about it, unless the Scripture agrees with our point-of-view, then we stand in error. What do you think?

-bit

 

[cygnusx1]

Tremendous testimony !!!!

May God grant you the peace that is needed with such a grand revelation of the truth.

Greetings Cygnus

 

[Elect]

"12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" - 1Cor 1:12-14.

I will not argue against Scripture. I stand corrected.
-----
The word CHRISTIAN means something different to different people. It means something different to Arminians, Catholics, Jehovah Witness' and Mormons.
Please comment.

 

[Elect]

The Mysteries of the Kingdom of God have been kept hidden from the world. Some of these Mysteries have been revealed to us in Christ Jesus. It is God that reveals truth to His people and we can only know what God reveals to us. Some of these mysteries, that God has revealed to us, has become known as The Doctrines of Grace and The Sovereignty of God. These Mysteries of the Kingdom of God are very offensive to the human mind because they exalt God and humble man. The ones that believe in their free will or put trust in their free will to choose Christ are the ones, it would appear, that are most offended.

So when I am told by some people that believe in free will that I am not saved because I believe that God is the one with free will and is absolutely Sovereign over his creation which would include the wicked and the just and that God is absolutely sovereign in the salvation of sinners, I know that this too is ordained of God.

 

[bitwise]

The word CHRISTIAN means something different to different people. It means something different to Arminians, Catholics, Jehovah Witness' and Mormons.
Please comment.

Do you think that the Sovereign God of the Universe has not ordained this to be the case? Why do you think He has done so?

The Mysteries of the Kingdom of God have been kept hidden from the world. Some of these Mysteries have been revealed to us in Christ Jesus. It is God that reveals truth to His people and we can only know what God reveals to us. Some of these mysteries, that God has revealed to us, has become known as The Doctrines of Grace and The Sovereignty of God. These Mysteries of the Kingdom of God are very offensive to the human mind because they exalt God and humble man. The ones that believe in their free will or put trust in their free will to choose Christ are the ones, it would appear, that are most offended.

So when I am told by some people that believe in free will that I am not saved because I believe that God is the one with free will and is absolutely Sovereign over his creation which would include the wicked and the just and that God is absolutely sovereign in the salvation of sinners, I know that this too is ordained of God.

So very true!

-bit

 

[Elect]

Do you think that the Sovereign God of the Universe has not ordained this to be the case? Why do you think He has done so?

It's all for the glory of God. The rest God will restrain.

 

[bitwise]

It's all for the glory of God. The rest God will restrain.

Amen.

-bit

 

[Rolf Ernst]

We need to soberly consider that God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty is a
necessary part of God's kingdom. Therefore, what pity and prayerfulness it should inspire in us to pray for those who have not yet grown up sufficiently to enjoy the meat of the word.

 

[Jaakob]

I was reading in the Gospel of John and I read that no one comes to Me unless it is giving to him from the Father.

Hi!

Sorry but with such truth could you also be a lutheran or who ever. What was that your coworker said he belives?

 

[cygnusx1]

Hi!

Sorry but with such truth could you also be a lutheran or who ever. What was that your coworker said he belives?

One of Luthers best works is called 'Bondage of the Will' , and Luther did believe in Predestination to life ........ so the answer historically would be yes.

 

[onajourney87]

Interesting story; thank you for sharing.

I've gone from being a pretty much arminian non-Christian, to being a Christian who was Arminian with a bit of Calvinism mixed in, to being more or less a five point Calvinist.

Now I'm kinda inbetween the two views, in that I don't believe either is entirely correct, but am unsure exactly where to go in some points. I suppose you could say I'm more "calvinistic" than "armininistic" however.
But, in His timing, God will lead me to the truth as He promises (be it on this earth or in heaven).

Kyle

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Raised Southern Baptist with an Arminian view--After I had matured, I realized that a faith which one has only adopted from his/her parents was not really their own until they had personally confirmed it to be in accord with scripture.

I began to pray that if anything I had been taught was not in accord with scripture, He would instruct me, and that my sincere desire was to truly understand His word. Two or three weeks later, in the spring of '68, as I was passing a pleasant Lord's Day afternoon studying Isa.53, I suddenly realized that it was not primarily about "the suffering Servant." It became much more than a depiction of sorrows. It was really a wondrous proclamation of victory. My SB pastor cautioned me not to read into the chapter something that was not there. I told him, "I am afraid that we have not realized what IS there.

I became engrossed in trying to discover the full meaning of what I believed I had found, but did not have as much study time as I wished. When the company offered me a captaincy on the DC-6/DC-7, I knew it would reduce my bible study for awhile to nothing, and I would be morally obligated to give them at least another 1.5 years so they could recover the costs of upgrading. I had already been wishing I could spend all my time with bible study. Therefore, I resigned my job and enrolled in a small independent bible college. Small, but they had a good library. I spent my after class hours going through commentaries, trying to find someone who viewed Isa. 53 as I did. After a week and half of fruitless search, I was about to decide no one else saw that chapter as I did. I had found no one who wqould back up my understanding--then, behold! A large volume, musty with age!!!! The commentator wrote with great energy; and he wrote carefully, as if he knew he was surrounded by a multitude which disagreed; and against that multitude of doubters, he carefully built a fortress of proof texts against every conceivable objection. I had found my tutor. From that point, I examined his comments on texts the Arminians viewed as supporting their view, and then compared the comments arminians put forth in response to proof texts used by the reformed theologian.

Before long, a pattern emerged---the reformed theologian, when confronted with opposing viewpoints, took recourse in the scripture, considering the fuller context, and then showing examples throughout scripture which reconfirmed the reformed viewpoint. The Arminian theologians,when faced with texts contrary to their view, repeatedly departed from scripture and resorted to the reasonings of their own minds rather than consider the full context or look more widely into scripture. Such tactics were so common that the truth was soon evident.

 

[Ben johnson]

I will not argue against Scripture. I stand corrected.

I will hold you to that.

In the year 2000 I started to see Calvinistic teachings in the Word and did not know it was Calvinistic in nature. I was reading in the Gospel of John and I read that no one comes to Me unless it is giving to him from the Father. That blew me away. I had never seen that before. At the rate I was going, it would be another 18 years probably before I became a full Calvinist. The Lord does have a way of speeding things up.

And as you continue to study, you will recognize that "no-one-comes-unless-drawn/granted-by-Father", is not asserting "predestination", it is asserting "their COMING, is AUTHORIZED by the Father". Jesus asserting His authority iow.

This against the POINT of that part of John6, verse42: "Isn't this Jesus, whose father and mother we know? How then does He say, 'I have come down out of Heaven'?" (Who does He think He IS?!?!)

And reading further, you will read John17:6, "Thine they were (belonged to God, BELIEVERS) --- and Thou gavest them to Me". Thus --- the "given", and "believing", are identical. Against Calvinistic interpretation of "given-and-THEN-believe", they are given THROUGH their belief.

There is also the end of Jn6, which has Jesus conveying that the rest of the disciples COULD leave just as Judas left...

That "veil" that "prevents them from seeing the light of the Gospel of Jesus" (2Cor4:3-4), consequents FROM their unbelief, rather than CAUSING it. No amount of prestidigitation can erase verse 3:15, "WHEN they TURN TO the Lord, THEN the veil is taken away!"

I even searched out Arminian arguments to refute Calvinism because I wanted the truth. Their arguments were to no avail. God had open my eyes to the truth and there was no going back! The one doctrine that I really had trouble with was of course the dreaded "Limited Atonement." I tried for about a week to be a four point Calvinist. God said nope! You will be Five! It was not consistent Theology.

And each of those five points can be overturned with Scripture.

God desires that ALL MEN be saved and come to knowledge of the truth --- the only way to deny that "all" means "all", is to assert that "ALL KINGS/AUTHORITY" are predestined-elect. Do you see the point? 1Tim2:1-4 connects the "desires ALL to be saved", with "kings and all authority". That's an "oops" for predestination...

1Tim4:10 asserts that "God is the Savior of ALL MEN, malista-chiefly-above-all believers". Tell me how that doesn't ONLY mean "universal offer, valid only for those who believe"?

1Jn2:2 says "propitiation not just for OUR sins, but also the WHOLE WORLD".

Rom5:17-18 says "condemnation CAME to all men, SO-THEN/EVEN-SO justification CAME to all men." On what basis can the second "pas-anthropos" indicate a different scope than the FIRST "pas-anthropos"?

You see, "Elect", what instills awe in the hearts of believers, is that Jesus loved us enough to die for us; for all who WILL believe. Please read Jn5:39-47 and tell me what part of that fits with "predestination". Then read Matt11:21-24 --- and tell me why a "predestination-believing-Jesus", would say something like, "it will go better for THEM than for YOU". Why better for them? Context says, "they did not have the miracles that YOU did; had THEY seen what YOU have seen, they would have BELIEVED. But even with what YOU have seen, you REFUSE to believe!!!"

How does "predestination" fit with Scripture?

God CHOOSES no one for salvation, and He CHOOSES no one for condemnation. Those who go to Hell --- must go there because of their own choice. This is the only way that Hell can be just. And "God is just, and the justifier of those who BELIEVE." Rom3:26

 

[cygnusx1]

I don't think ben thinks predestination exists at all

 

[Ben johnson]

I don't think ben thinks predestination exists at all

Ya' think???

Predestination exists. Jesus was predestined to be born, live, and die on a Cross --- and live again, that we might live.

God predestines all He FOREKNEW, meaning "all who love God and believe", predestines them to be Christlike. Rather than "monergistic-before-repentance", that predestining is of BELIEVERS; who are convicted, turn to Him in repentance, and join the predestined-plan-of-salvation.

The plan that is spelled out: "This is the will of God, that all who see Jesus and believe, may have eternal life."

 

[LukeBritt]

I'm not sure that foreknowledge is that God can see who will choose him. Knowledge in the Bible is much more than head affirmation. Knowledge is intimate.
"Depart from me, I never knew you." is not that Christ never knew him, but that they were not in a relationship together.

 

[Ben johnson]

OK, but please look at Gal4:9 --- Paul writes: "Now that you knew God, or rather were known BY Him, how is it that you are turning back to weak/worthless things?"

In 5:7, he says: "You who are seeking to again be justified by law (works, rather than by grace), you are severed from Christ, and fallen from grace".

What was happening there?