How hell can make sense...

vinsight4u said:

The "test" as you call it has to do with will you stand up for the writings in Scripture? God has it written - as to their worm dieth not.

Both the OT and NT refer to their worm.

Isaiah 66:22
"For as the new heaven and the new earth..."
Isaiah 66:23
"And it shall come to pass..."
Isaiah 66:24
"And they shall go forth and look upon the...for their worm shall not die."

Mark 9:45
"...the fire that shall never be quenched."
/on the new earth
Mark 9:46
"Where their worm dieth not..."

Matthew 25:41
..."Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire..."

How will you stand yourself if you know that could have warned people of idolatry and murder, etc....and the eternal lake of fire - but
you did not?

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Yes, well so now God gives eternal life to worms so they can eat bodies that never die which is interesting as worms--(maggots) ONLY eat dead meat. But I guess these must be special, spiritual worms that eat spiritually dead meat created just for this purpose, as otherwise eating non-existing flesh they would die of starvation.

/nvm

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

Did you warn them of they will die in their sins/have no mercy/no inheritance in the kingdom of God and Christ/their worm shall not die.....or they can die in Christ and gain forgiveness of sin and eternal life?

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I do try to warn them about quoting the ot to challenge what is clearly in the nt

vinsight4u said:

It is not - the worm. It is personal -their worm.

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worm
23 ot 5 nt

vinsight4u said:

It is not - the worm. It is personal -their worm.

1 Corinthians 6:9
"...the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God..."

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OK, so then----the lost each get a personal, immortal, spiritual worm that eats them spiritually forever. The worm then is eating spiritually dead meat for it's sustenance. The saved have been given bodies that live on this newly remade earth and have the right to the tree of life and the water of life or their immortality. The spiritual worms and spiritually dead people must then get to eat of the spiritually dead tree of life and spiritually dead water of life for their immortality.

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

What? You searched that word?

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the worm does a lot better in the ot

mmksparbud said:

LOL! You go right ahead and pick and choose whatever translation meets your little reconceived ideas!! If you reads it in the original language, which was given to you, you can see even in the pictographs that the word day is written differently in Gen 1 of creation week, and Gen 2---it is obvious, no need to stretch anything and you still refuse to believe it!!

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I have explained several times and cited several sources which show that ביום/beyom in Gen 2:17 and 134 other verses is the noun יום/yom with the ב/beth prepositional prefix. The preposition ב/beth means "in." Here are few verses where the same word occurs and it does not mean a period of time of indeterminate length.
And there are 130 more. I quoted from three Jewish translations, JPS, LXX and Targum they all translate "beyom" as "in the day" not an unknown length of time.
All you have done is cherry pick until you find something, somewhere that appears to support your preconceived ideas.

It is a literal creation week, no one is denying that!!!
What if obvious is that the word for day in the creation story and the word for day when God tells Adam that they will die if they eat of the tree is very different, it is clearly written differently, and you still can not admit that!!
בְּיוֹם

bê'yom
יוֹם

yom

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CREATION WEEK----LITERAL 24 HR DAY----ON THE DAY YOU EAT YOU WILL DAY---NOT LITERAL!!
It is clearly obvious---refuse it all you want.

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It is clearly obvious that you have cherry picked a few sources which seem to support your assumptions/presuppositions. You have not provided a credible verifiable, historical source which proves this. Here again a few Hebrew Grammar sources which show that beth prefixed to a noun is the preposition "in." There are many more.
Hebrew Prepositions | POLYMATH.ORG
Hebrew Grammar | learn101.org
Hebrew Prepositions
Hebrew Inseparable Prepositions with Nouns Part 1- Biblical Hebrew Made Easy!
Davidson's Introductory Hebrew Grammar
Student's Hebrew Grammar, from the 20th German

/nvm

Der Alter said:

I have explained several times and cited several sources which show that ביום/beyom in Gen 2:17 and 134 other verses is the noun יום/yom with the ב/beth prepositional prefix. The preposition ב/beth means "in." Here are few verses where the same word occurs and it does not mean a period of time of indeterminate length.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [ביום] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Genenesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day [ביום] ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day [ביום] that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day [ביום] when they were created.
Genesis 31:40 Thus I was; in the day ביום the drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes.​

And there are 130 more. I quoted from three Jewish translations, JPS, LXX and Targum they all translate "beyom" as "in the day" not an unknown length of time.
All you have done is cherry pick until you find something, somewhere that appears to support your preconceived ideas.

It is clearly obvious that you have cherry picked a few sources which seem to support your assumptions/presuppositions. You have not provided a credible verifiable, historical source which proves this. Here again a few Hebrew Grammar sources which show that beth prefixed to a noun is the preposition "in." There are many more.
Hebrew Prepositions | POLYMATH.ORG
Hebrew Grammar | learn101.org
Hebrew Prepositions
Hebrew Inseparable Prepositions with Nouns Part 1- Biblical Hebrew Made Easy!
Davidson's Introductory Hebrew Grammar
Student's Hebrew Grammar, from the 20th German

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Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Like I said. You've been shown where the way it is written in the original language is different and means different things. You an see it--0obviouslyt, you choose not to.
And I find it really funny that the verse you choose to deny the obvious---contradicts what you say!
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

So you believe that God made the earth, the heavens, and every plant of the field
in 24 hours----it took 6 days, 5 if you do not count man and the animals---just the heavens earth, and every plant.

vinsight4u said:

The tree of life is for those in new eternal life bodies.

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Apparently not, for the lost are also given eternal life bodies, and so are their own personal worms, so they can live in torment forever.

/nvm

/nvm

vinsight4u said:

What I deal with is in Isaiah 66 verse 24, does "their"
refer to the men or to the carcases? To me, it shows the
body of the men died. They are seen as carcasses. The OT
though shows things can be inside a dead carcase, such as
the time of Samson...honey...bees in a lion. In Ezekiel we find
carcases mentioned as to Israel and then it refers to their idols.
The carcases did not actually have idols. Israel would be meant as
"their". Ezekiel 6:5

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OK---these are carcasses then, dead copses, without any consciousness then? And they have immortal worms inside them? I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

vinsight4u said:

Mark 9:49
"For every one..." can mean all men/just like in Isaiah 66:24 as in Because all men
Mark 9:48
"Where their worm..."
I see this linked as to the all men - not carcases. To me, it is the soul that is the worm that shall not die.

Mark 9:49
"For every one shall be salted with fire...every sacrifice..."
sacrifice can mean victim

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Well, that is creative, now the worms are actually souls---how did you arrive at that, is there some verse??

mmksparbud said:

Apparently not, for the lost are also given eternal life bodies, and so are their own personal worms, so they can live in torment forever.

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It seems like "eternal life" is referring to being alive not in the organic sense, but in the spiritual sense. And then as far as death being the inevitable result of sin, that seems to imply that sin could kill both the organic body and also the spiritual or soul, since while there is no avoiding the organic death, via salvation from Christ, even though the organic body will die, the spiritual form can still live, and be given a heavenly body, perhaps interpreted as a celestial body. But then those who are not saved, will not only die an organic death, but also a spiritual death (Matthew 10:28). Which maybe is described in 2 Thessalonians 1, as in the spiritual death being the complete separation from the Lord, which is also described as "eternal destruction."

This makes sense to me personally, anyway, based on one very close encounter with organic death.

As far as the worm talk in Isaiah, this is where all it gets mentioned, from the search I am trying to do, it starts in Isaiah 14, which is a "proverb against the king of Babylon" which later addresses Lucifer, specifically by name, and mentions that "The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you" referring to him.

So then later on in Isaiah 41, it says "“Fear not, you worm Jacob, You men of Israel! I will help you,” says the Lord" followed by later in Isaiah 51 with "“Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, You people in whose heart is My law: Do not fear the reproach of men, Nor be afraid of their insults. For the moth will eat them up like a garment, And the worm will eat them like wool; But My righteousness will be forever, And My salvation from generation to generation.”

And then finally in Isaiah 66 - "And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

So that is the full context for the worm mentions. Well the whole book of Isaiah is the full context, but those are the parts that mention the maggots/worms.

/nvm

/nvm

/nvm