So is it you opinion that nobody goes to Heaven, they stay here on Earth and Jesus comes to Earth to rule it? No pearly gates, no streets of gold, everyone stays here?
Ken
There is a school of thought that suggests that when Jesus comes again he will remake the earth to become perfect. So basically just imagine this planet without any death, famine, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, drought, floods, disease, crime, or any kind of sin.
Humm..... Kinda makes ya wonder why God didn't do it that way from the start huh?
K
If it is the result of someone elses programming than it is robotic and thus I can talk about instinctive actions being robotic. Sin is not instinctive even if it is inevitable, because man is not perfect.Just because something is instinctive does not mean it is robotic, forced or not the result of a free will choice. Is sin robotic and forced upon us against our will? If sin can be instinctive and still be a choice, why cant love?
Are you sure this love actually exists? I ask because Christians have not cornered the market on love; the love and behavior Christians have is no better than those who worship a nonexistent God or no God at all!
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']RIGHT! There is nothing to work for!!! You have been given everything so your motive is completely out of gratitude. You can still help others (those that come to heaven without Godly type Love).The problem with having it all is there is nothing to work for, there is nothing to accomplish, you have no purpose, nothing to get out of bed for; are you sure you can be happy under those conditions?
Not all sin causes pain. Do you think the type of sin that does not harm anyone might be a temptation? And what about the gray areas? Sometimes telling the truth can be wrong and telling a lie can be right! How do you know in Heaven you will always make the perfect choice?
On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?
So you don't have any scriptural references to back this up, then?
Heaven is merely a figure of speech. People don't really go to heaven after they die. Therefore, you don't experience happiness or sadness after your death.
The bible speaks of heaven as God's throne and earth as His footstool, so although we may be in agreement that heaven is not physical, it certainly is tangible and according to Jesus' words in Luke 17:20-21, it does indicate that those born of the spirit are citizens of heaven even while enduring their physical life. However the physical life ends and God tells us in many ways that our spiritual life never ends, that's the whole purpose of life really isn't it? That God gathers the wheat into His barn and burns the weeds. Why does God want to gather wheat into His barn? That's something that we just don't know but we choose to trust that He has good intentionsAs a figure of speech, yes, Heaven does exist. But it doesn't exist in the physical world. The word Heaven is used to described very wonderful things. When you hear people say they are going to heaven after they die, they aren't talking about a physical location. They are talking about their soul going to a non-physical place called Heaven. I can see how many people misinterpret this, as it is said in such a way that portrays Heaven to be a physical place.
So is it you opinion that nobody goes to Heaven, they stay here on Earth and Jesus comes to Earth to rule it? No pearly gates, no streets of gold, everyone stays here?
Ken
Eternity is quite different from time, you should understand that the time we spend outside time and in eternity may appear to be a blink of an eye, but it will also be sufficient to entertain us for the full amount of time that we actually spend in the state without a body. It seems hard to explain so I can only hope you try to understand what I mean. This is how the scripture is written "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day".51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
Humm..... Kinda makes ya wonder why God didn't do it that way from the start huh?
K
This life has purpose. He doesn't want to remove that purpose, which is what you're actually suggesting. Whether you realize it or not.
Consider for a minute the amount of power and responsibility that each citizen of "heaven" will be commissioned with. Do you really want such people running around w/o any experience?
Why would there be no purpose on earth if earth were perfect?
If Heaven is perfect, why would you need experience?
So why must sin be inevitable? Why cant righteousness be inevitable? Is evil more powerful than good?If it is the result of someone elses programming than it is robotic and thus I can talk about instinctive actions being robotic. Sin is not instinctive even if it is inevitable, because man is not perfect.
Yes I have seen this Love in action.
Why are these other non Christians Loving? Rarely have I heard the only reason being: because of what has been given to me already. All other religions have thing to be earned, spiritual ladder ti be climbed, and something to gain by doing good stuff.
Help them with what?RIGHT! There is nothing to work for!!! You have been given everything so your motive is completely out of gratitude. You can still help others (those that come to heaven without Godly type Love).
Sin seems to be the hurting of others by your actions. Unless you have gone past the point of no return and your heart is harden, you will feel pain from your sins.
The Holy Spirit is the individuals guarantee and not the guarantee for the people around him.
This goes into a discussion for our need to have faith.
Sin on earth is not a problem for Christians since it is immediately washed away. It all becomes part of the system of spiritual growth.
Again!On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?
K
While the Bible may speak of heaven as God's throne and the earth as God's footstool, that is all just illustrative language the author(s) use to get a point across. God and heaven aren't real things, but are words used in lieu of something else as part of the process of using illustrative language to get a certain point across.
Whoah! I've never understood people who say that what is written doesn't mean what is written. Do you think it helps Jesus' cause to confuse people like that?While the Bible may speak of heaven as God's throne and the earth as God's footstool, that is all just illustrative language the author(s) use to get a point across. God and heaven aren't real things, but are words used in lieu of something else as part of the process of using illustrative language to get a certain point across.
Well, I can think of one thing at least.
God is infinite. That's an eternal curriculum, I should think.
As far as other things, I imagine we won't be sitting on our butts all day bored out of our minds. I'm pretty sure we'd have some kind of work to do. As to what that would be, God knows.
But to be honest, I don't care about golden roads or pearly gates or eternal mansions, or other such stuff like that, real or imagined. As long as I'm with God for eternity, that is all I care about as far as 'heaven' goes, so far as my own self is concerned. But I want others to be there with God too.
Humans enjoy building, learning, fixing, accomplishing, and making the world a better place than which we found it. We enjoy learning from our parents and those who came before us; adding to what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge to our children so they can add to what we’ve taught them and pass that to their children; and so forth.
But what happens when you get to Heaven, where everything is perfect? No more fixing, or learning, no more passing knowledge and accomplishments from one generation to another, all you do is sit around telling God how good he is; how long before that gets old?
Here on Earth humans rule, but in Heaven God rules and it seems to me humans will pretty much take on the role of what we would consider a pet! How happy do you think Humans would be under such conditions? How happy do you really think you would be in Heaven?
Ken
The non Christian (without the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) cannot keep from sinning all the time. He can keep from any one sin at a particular time, so in that respect he is responsible for his sins.So why must sin be inevitable? Why cant righteousness be inevitable? Is evil more powerful than good?
Their reason for loving is not the point. The point is, they are loving so what makes your loving any better than theirs?
Protecting and preserving them for eternity, because they still have free will and thus could sin.Help them with what?
I thought you guys defined sin as a transgression against the law of God. Just because youve transgressed against Gods law doesn;t mean someone is hurt by it
Again!On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?
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