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How green is my Catechism.

Fervent

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Where are you finding: "but the assemblies were of every Christian in the city when the Lord's Supper was taken and in some of the cities they were large gatherings."
It comes from a variety of evidences, from the gathering at pentecost and the descriptions in Acts 2-4, to the circumstances that led to the creation of deacons in Acts 7, to the fact that Paul's letters were addressed to believers in the entire city and not simply house churches. There certainly were small house churches that were tight-knit, but there also was a larger regular public assembly and table fellowship.
 
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Fervent

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Seems a bit ironic having a common creed and confession of faith if there's a belief in nuda scriptura. Which is not the same thing as sola scriptura, which necessarily involves the tradition as a living witness to the Scriptures.
 
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bling

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The temple in Jerusalem was huge and Christian Jews in large groups could meet there, until they started to be persecuted, but they met daily in houses. They seemed to take communion daily in the house churches to begin with: “Acts 2: 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,”. The breaking of bread is separated by the conjunction “and” from ate together, suggest separate acts. We do not find breaking of bread in masses greater than a house church, but it could have happened, but where?
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Catholics practise a catechumenate consisting of tutelage with Catechists and sponsors until the time of the rite of election, at which time those who are ready and willing to be received into the Church become the Elect and a little while later they are received into the Church at the Easter Vigil mass during which the seven readings from the old testament lead to their baptism and confirmation (or confirmation in the case of one who was already baptised) followed by the rest of the mass, including the first communion of the neophytes.
 
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Fervent

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Acts 20 seems a good place to start, though you seem to be trying to make an argument from silence when there is no reason to expect a detailed account of larger assemblies happening and the practical considerations of smaller gatherings happening more frequently do not imply that there was no larger gathering. It especially doesn't imply that the church was divided into largely isolated cells that didn't regularly meet with much larger common assemblies.
 
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bling

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Acts 20: 7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting.
How big was this third floor room and how many people are we talking about?
Acts 20: 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. Public does not mean a large building, it could have been out in the open. He does say house to house.

With the persecutions which followed, the Christians did not build churches, it is said they did meet in catacombs of the dead, but house churches were talked about a lot.
 
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Fervent

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Public doesn't mean building, true. But it does imply larger group assemblies, regardless of whether they were out in the open or in a building somewhare. As for the size of the upper room, who knows but from the sounds of it was more than an isolated cell of believers in a house church. Seems more of a both/and then an either/or.
 
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atpollard

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Seems a bit ironic having a common creed and confession of faith if there's a belief in nuda scriptura. Which is not the same thing as sola scriptura, which necessarily involves the tradition as a living witness to the Scriptures.
It was 1689 ... confessions were all the rage that season. Just everybody who was anybody had one and using the WCF with all those parts Sharpie'd out was getting old.
 
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Fervent

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It was 1689 ... confessions were all the rage that season. Just everybody who was anybody had one and using the WCF with all those parts Sharpie'd out was getting old.
Kind of makes me think of the scene in the movie The Jerk where Steve Martin declared he didn't need anything but then slowly added more and more to what he needed as he walked out.
 
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atpollard

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if there's a belief in nuda scriptura. Which is not the same thing as sola scriptura
These people keep moving the Goal Posts. Fist attack is against Reformers and "Scripture alone" which then becomes a rant about "nuda scriptura".
1689 is the Reformers and that is what the Baptist reformers had to say about Scripture. ... I was attempting to move the goal posts back to the Reformation and the actual Reformers [like my Particular Baptist roots].
 
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Fervent

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I get that, but as someone who believes in a form of "sola scriptura" I find it important to distinguish between it and the modern understanding that has gone too far to the other extreme and attempts to drive a wedge between Christian history and the Bible not only in responding to people who hold such beliefs but also in responding to Catholic and Orthodox polemics that try to place an exclusive claim on history for their "church."
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Brother, take up the Green Catechism and relax, you will be transported to a world where nuda and sola are not so relevant anymore and everything turns on faith in Jesus Christ as God's Messiah and as Lord of all.
 
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prodromos

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They did build churches.

They also converted houses into churches.
 
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atpollard

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Brother, take up the Green Catechism and relax, you will be transported to a world where nuda and sola are not so relevant anymore and everything turns on faith in Jesus Christ as God's Messiah and as Lord of all.
I honestly tried. I was converted from Atheism via an outreach by your Catholic Charismatics (who if I am honest, my first reaction was “they need their meds adjusted”). However, I admired the honesty of their faith and gave this Jesus of theirs a fair hearing. God, being God, did what God does. So the next logical step was to read this ‘Bible’ thing to learn more about this ‘Jesus’ thing and to study “A Catechism for Inquirers” at the local RCC.

I just could not accept the Tradition/Church Authority explanation for the discrepancy that I saw between what I read in the Bible and what the Church taught (mostly surrounding the Mariology doctrines). Since joining the RCC involved affirming the beliefs and I would not say what I did not mean … we parted ways: amicably. So I really tried to embrace your “green Catechism” but choked on some of the theology.

The irony is that 10 years of study at the Church of God (Wesleyan Holiness/Methodist teaching) and reading the Bible led me to Particular (TULIP) Baptist personal theology beliefs. I see in scripture, what I see in scripture and cannot deny the Word of God for ‘fellowship’ with the words of any group of men. So I am what I am.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Try harder with the green catechism
 
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bling

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I had a friend preach/teach all night in one room with 100 standing Christians with one 100 watt bulb hanging from the ceiling, in China. Those were 100 house church leaders doing something very risky, since they were breaking the law.
 
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bling

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Fervent

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I had a friend preach/teach all night in one room with 100 standing Christians with one 100 watt bulb hanging from the ceiling, in China. Those were 100 house church leaders doing something very risky, since they were breaking the law.
That's great to hear, and there's nothing really wrong with a house church model but that doesn't make other governmental structures invalid or without their place within the broader Christian mission. While house churches create an intimate bond the larger denominational models are able to more effectively pool resources which is also needed. To claim that the Biblical model is the house church model is to say more than the evidence allows in its favor.
 
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The Liturgist

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Also the first cathedral was built in Kerala in 52 AD, shortly befoee St. Thomas was martyred on that location by a javelin-wielding Maharaja, in one of the first, perhaps the first, of many incidents of terrible persecutions of Christians in India by the Hindu majority, who are frankly the third worst major religion in the world when it comes to persecuting us after Islam and the various Communist denominations*.

interestingly, the original building is still somewhat intact, with Renaissance and Portuguese Baroque modifications, and is in use by the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church (which took over the Church of the East in India, except for the dissenters who united with the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch).

*which have acquired in my opinion the essential features of cults like Scientology or Mormonism, in the form of rituals, idolarry, especially in the North Korean variety and the neo-Maoism of the CCP under the Xi Jinpin totalitarianism and even eschatology in the form of the utopian fantasies about how things will be “after the revolution” or when that proves to be a living nigntmare, “after pure Communism is achieved”.
 
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The Liturgist

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There is also the issue that house churches can have problems with the proper supervision of clergy and of doctrine. Now this is not always the case; the smallest canonical Eastern Orthodox church in the UK is an exquisite Antiochian Orthodox church constructed in a private residence.

Also obviously every monastery and convent in the world is technically a giant house church, which is one reason I love to spend time in them. It is extremely convenient to wake up mere footsteps from the Eucharistic liturgy.
 
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