• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

How Gnostic Are We Becoming?

Status
Not open for further replies.

JimB

Legend
Jul 12, 2004
26,337
1,595
Nacogdoches, Texas
Visit site
✟34,757.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And each would say the same thing to us, (and believe it)

The truth is we all filter our experiences with the scriptures and our scriptures with our experiences.

This is why we see “through the glass dimly”. Some of my experiences are polish, and some are tarnish,

Lord help me to know the difference.

John O.

Me, too, John.

~Jim
Beware of half-truths - you may get hold of the wrong half.

 
Upvote 0

Yekcidmij

Presbyterian, Polymath
Feb 18, 2002
10,469
1,453
East Coast
✟252,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
John 16:36
36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

Yea. His Kingdom isn't of worldly origin. That has nothing to do with the world being evil and us going off to live in a disembodied heaven for eternity. Jesus isn't doing what the world expected the Messiah to do, namely, fight the perceived opressors - the current regeime and the Romans! No, Jesus' mission went much deeper. His way of fighting the enemy wasn't to use the worlds weapons and the way the world would have Him fight evil, He was going to use Love to overcome the most powerful enemy of all - death.

Jesus' prayer, "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven", clues us in a little. Also of note at the end of Revelation, we have an image of heaven coming to earth, not us living for ever and ever as disembodied souls in some other dimension. God's plan seems to be to restore the world that we have brought evil into. His plan was to start that process with Abraham and do His redemption process through Israel. Israel, in various places in the OT like the end of Isaiah, was going to be God's true and restored humanity who would rule over God's redeemed creation. Unfortunately, Israel had the same problem the rest of us have - sin. Israel needed a representative who could fulfill her role she was called to do (Is 40-the end of the book).

In Genesis, God calls His creation "very good". His plan is not to scrap everything and start over. That would be conceding defeat. That's like saying, "sorry God, but you lose, evil wins, try again"! God can't be beaten! "Death, where is your victory"??? Rather, Jesus fulfilled Israel's purposes and did for Israel and then the rest of the world, what Israel was called but unable to do. Jesus fulfilled the promises made to Abraham so that the world will be reconciled through Him. God's plan is to redeem everything, which includes us! What do you think was the significance of all the healings Jesus did? What did all of those point to? If we were to be good dualists we might say that Jesus would heal them by taking them away from the evil planet, but He doesn't do that.

1st Peter 2:11
11 Dear friends, I warn you as “temporary residents and foreigners” to keep away from worldly desires that wage war against your very souls.

In addition to the above, this passage uses the metaphor of citizenship, as Paul does in other places. It's not that we are in a temporary existence here and will soon leave forever and ever. No, it's more like we are a colony of God's Kingdom and we are to help bring His Kingdom into the world by spreading the "good news" - Jesus is Lord of the world and all of creation! The world rulers should understand their place. They are subject to the true ruler of all - Jesus. We, paradoxically, aren't citizens of this world though we live in it. We are to be and act like citizens of God's Kingdom by having faith in Jesus and demonstrating our faith by loving God and loving our neighbor and not act like we are citizens of some other kingdom by conforming to their ways and following idols of our own making. Our hope, and our assurance, is that the Covenantial, Loving, and Just Creator of the world is going to put everything to rights and will rescue His people from our falleness.

As the Psalmists says, "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make all your enemies your footstool". Jesus is going to conquer all enemies, indeed He already has and their time is limited. The greatest weapon of all evil is death. Jesus beat it already. It's only a matter of time before God's Kingdom breaks fully into this world and everything is renewed and restored.


1st Corinthians 15:45-53


45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever. 51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

Yea, all of 1 Corinthians 15 agrees with me. It's all about resurrection and resurrected bodies; not a disembodied existence in dimension "x".

Paul seems to think, and I would agree, that Jesus is the representative of His people. What's true for the Representative is true of the people. Jesus was raised from the dead, in the very same body He died in (with improvements of course), and so like Jesus, we too will be raised.

You can use the example of Israel's history. Their return from exile was comparable to being returned from the dead as in Ezekiel 37. What's also interesting about Ezekiel 37 is that it uses the EXACT image of resurrection. A valley of dry bones is the picture, and God asks who can bring those bones to life? God of course.


Resurrection is the most central truth of Christianity. Without it you've got nothing; absolutely nothing. God won't let evil and death have the last say on something He declared as "very good". God is too Righteous, Holy, and Powerful. He won't be beaten. All of creation will, one day, be "very good" once again when everything is put to rights.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 18, 2003
7,915
644
✟11,355.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yea. His Kingdom isn't of worldly origin. That has nothing to do with the world being evil and us going off to live in a disembodied heaven for eternity. Jesus isn't doing what the world expected the Messiah to do, namely, fight the perceived opressors - the current regeime and the Romans! No, Jesus' mission went much deeper. His way of fighting the enemy wasn't to use the worlds weapons and the way the world would have Him fight evil, He was going to use Love to overcome the most powerful enemy of all - death.

Jesus' prayer, "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven", clues us in a little. Also of note at the end of Revelation, we have an image of heaven coming to earth, not us living for ever and ever as disembodied souls in some other dimension. God's plan seems to be to restore the world that we have brought evil into. His plan was to start that process with Abraham and do His redemption process through Israel. Israel, in various places in the OT like the end of Isaiah, was going to be God's true and restored humanity who would rule over God's redeemed creation. Unfortunately, Israel had the same problem the rest of us have - sin. Israel needed a representative who could fulfill her role she was called to do (Is 40-the end of the book).

In Genesis, God calls His creation "very good". His plan is not to scrap everything and start over. That would be conceding defeat. That's like saying, "sorry God, but you lose, evil wins, try again"! God can't be beaten! "Death, where is your victory"??? Rather, Jesus fulfilled Israel's purposes and did for Israel and then the rest of the world, what Israel was called but unable to do. Jesus fulfilled the promises made to Abraham so that the world will be reconciled through Him. God's plan is to redeem everything, which includes us! What do you think was the significance of all the healings Jesus did? What did all of those point to? If we were to be good dualists we might say that Jesus would heal them by taking them away from the evil planet, but He doesn't do that.



In addition to the above, this passage uses the metaphor of citizenship, as Paul does in other places. It's not that we are in a temporary existence here and will soon leave forever and ever. No, it's more like we are a colony of God's Kingdom and we are to help bring His Kingdom into the world by spreading the "good news" - Jesus is Lord of the world and all of creation! The world rulers should understand their place. They are subject to the true ruler of all - Jesus. We, paradoxically, aren't citizens of this world though we live in it. We are to be and act like citizens of God's Kingdom by having faith in Jesus and demonstrating our faith by loving God and loving our neighbor and not act like we are citizens of some other kingdom by conforming to their ways and following idols of our own making. Our hope, and our assurance, is that the Covenantial, Loving, and Just Creator of the world is going to put everything to rights and will rescue His people from our falleness.

As the Psalmists says, "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make all your enemies your footstool". Jesus is going to conquer all enemies, indeed He already has and their time is limited. The greatest weapon of all evil is death. Jesus beat it already. It's only a matter of time before God's Kingdom breaks fully into this world and everything is renewed and restored.




Yea, all of 1 Corinthians 15 agrees with me. It's all about resurrection and resurrected bodies; not a disembodied existence in dimension "x".

Paul seems to think, and I would agree, that Jesus is the representative of His people. What's true for the Representative is true of the people. Jesus was raised from the dead, in the very same body He died in (with improvements of course), and so like Jesus, we too will be raised.

You can use the example of Israel's history. Their return from exile was comparable to being returned from the dead as in Ezekiel 37. What's also interesting about Ezekiel 37 is that it uses the EXACT image of resurrection. A valley of dry bones is the picture, and God asks who can bring those bones to life? God of course.


Resurrection is the most central truth of Christianity. Without it you've got nothing; absolutely nothing. God won't let evil and death have the last say on something He declared as "very good". God is too Righteous, Holy, and Powerful. He won't be beaten. All of creation will, one day, be "very good" once again when everything is put to rights.



Nice post...I agree accept that I don't simply think we are going to have improved bodies. Transformed is a much more (IMO) expressive and complete depiction of what will take place. 1st Chorinthians 15 points out that the bodies we are in are earthly bodies and that they must be changed (not simply improved upon) into heavnely bodies. So then they are similar, but not the same.

I think we are talking about a different dimension when we talk about being transformed. I don't think we really understand it.

I do agree that a disembodied eternal existence is not a correct way to look at Christianity in it's fulness.

It is enough to say that right now we are the seed and when the trumpet sounds we will become the eternal flower.
 
Upvote 0

Watchman4hm

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
17,653
44,424
✟169,179.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
CONFRONTING MODERNISM
Posted with permission from original
Author..JDL



AUTHORSHIP OF THE EPISTLE


The author of the epistle claims to be an eyewitness of Christ's ministry (I:1-3). Polycarp quotes I John 4:2-3, he was a disciple of John, ordained by John to be the bishop of Smyrna. Ireneas, a disciple of Polycarp, and the bishop of Lyons, quotes I John 2:18-22, 4:1,3, 5:1... and says that he is quoting the epistle of John.

THE PERSON OF JOHN


There are five books of the New Testament that are ascribed to John the Apostle. The New Testament tells us surprisingly little about John. He is mentioned:

3 times in Matthew
10 times in Mark
7 times in Luke
9 times in Acts
1 time in Galatians
5 times in Revelation

However, in most of these references, little or no information is given about the man. We do not even know where or when he was born. He had a brother named James... His father was named Zebedee. His mother was named Salome. Some believe Salome was the sister of Mary. (Compare John 19:25, and Mark 15:40.)

The family industry was fishing. The family was probably "well-to-do". They had hired servants (Mark 1:20). Salome ministered to Jesus of their substance (Mark 15:41, Luke 8:3). John knew the High Priest, and had access to the court of the High Priest at the time of Jesus' arrest (John 18:15-16). There is even a suggestion that John had a home in Jerusalem (Matthew 20:20).


After Pentecost, John remained in Jerusalem until the death of Mary, the mother of Jesus (about 50 A.D.). Irenaeus informs us that John later took up residence in Ephesus (this is where the epistles and the fourth gospel were written). John outlived the other apostles and died at Ephesus. Jerome says that John lived 68 years after the crucifixion. That would put the death of John around 100 A.D.

Clement relates an interesting story of John. The apostle once visited Smyrna, a neighboring city of Ephesus. There he saw a young boy, and brought the boy to the bishop of Smyrna for training. The bishop took the boy home, fed and taught him, and later baptized him. Then, he left the boy alone. The boy fell into evil company, committed a crime and fled to the mountains. He became the leader of a band of criminals. Later, John returned to Smyrna, and asked about the boy. The bishop said: He is dead to God! and then told the story. John rent his robe, and smote his head. He rode off and found the boy and by tender entreaties won him to repentance. He brought him back to the church.

Such was the way in which this apostle ministered. He saw a need of more than winning converts, but to hold them and guide them into more and more truth.


The epistle of I John is a summary of the deep truth taught in the gospel of John. There are many comparable truths taught in both.

I John John

1:1 1:1-2, 14
2:5 14:23
2:6 15:4
2:8 1:5,9: 13:34
2:10 11:10
2:13 17:3
2:14 17:3
3:1 1:12
3:2 17:24
3:8 8:44
3:8-9 3:3-5
3:11 13:34
3:13 15:20
4:9 3:16
4:12 1:18
5:13 20:31
5:14 14:14
5:20 17:2-3
etc.


DESTINATION OF THE EPISTLE


Augustine refers to the epistle of I John as being one written to the Parthians. There is no other evidence of this, or of any evidence of there being a church in this region of Persia or Iran. Many think it was written to local churches around Ephesus. God designed the truth of the epistle to be for all ages, for the saints of God... especially for us of the last days...

CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EPISTLE OF I JOHN


The epistle of I John is a general letter, written to specific churches and individuals. I John was intended for all the churches of the province of Asia. No personal details are given, few names used, most often it is - Christ. There is no salutation, no greetings. The only way we know for whom it is intended, is by relationships implied between the author and the readers. It is difficult letter. Some say that it is the most difficult of the New Testament epistles. It is complex in style, in structure, and in thought.

Most theologians admit to not coming close to understanding the message in its deepest meaning. The full understanding of the epistle is beginning to be understood when the gospel of John is understood to be the key to unlocking its message.

This epistle is a letter written in a crisis, and is an attempt to stem the tide of a deadly doctrinal error which threatened to destroy fellowship between the churches of Asia. This controversy is shadowed in nearly every verse of the letter.

This controversy is most clearly delineated in I John 2:18-28.
"Little children, it is the last time, and as ye have heard that the antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists, whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.I have not written unto you because ye know no the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life.
These things have I written unto you, concerning them, that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming."

This is also depicted in I John 4:1-6:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby, know ye the Spirit of God; Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God; and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. They are of the world, therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God; he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby, know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."


This error was a form of gnosticism. This is a companion letter to John's gospel, and is linked, not only by style, vocabulary, characteristic phrases, but also by fundamental concepts and teachings. This epistle was likely read and studied along with the gospel of John. The letter formed a sermon on the gospel, relating the same truths...


The gnosticism, that John confronted, was a combination of oriental mysticism and Greek philosophy, that had taken on enough of the forms of Christianity to make it a foe of the faith. John considered it a counterfeit Christianity and abhorred it.


The principle tenets of gnosticism were:

1. They made knowledge, and not faith, to be the one condition of salvation. They felt they had more fellowship with God by reason of their knowledge. They became arrogant, and exclusive because of their "superior" knowledge. This doctrine gave them their name... for the Greek word for knowledge is "gnosis".

2. They taught that all matter is inherently evil. So they taught that the body is evil, and is separated from spirit... They therefore tried to claim that their spirit was undefiled by the sins of their own bodies... This led to licentiousness in their own lives, for they felt superior in spirit... and therefore were not contaminated by their own sins. They also taught that deity would not become human flesh, and said that Jesus only seemed to be human, but was only an apparition.

3. They separated the Creator from the Supreme God, making the God of the Old Testament to be the Creator God, and to claim that their God, the Supreme God, was superior to the former. They made the "Creator God" to be the God of the Jews, but not their God.


4. They denied the free will of man, which made them exclusive rather than evangelistic. They felt chosen to posses this "superior" knowledge, and thereby saved by the choice of God. Since they felt chosen by God they did not feel too concerned by grave, vile sins that they themselves committed.



Gnosticism was the modernism of the early church. John shows in I John his abhorrence for this false doctrine. There were false ministers and saints teaching these doctrines in the church. Many were being led astray by these doctrines.


John gave 7 ways to test false prophets by:

1. their confession of Jesus Christ (4:2-3)...
2. their relationship with the world (4:5, 2:15-17...
3. how they receive Christianity (4:6)...
4. their attitude toward the commandments of God (4:6, 3:20-24)...
5. their love of the brethren (4:7-21, 3:11-16, compare John 13:34-35, 15:12-15)
6. the indwelling of the Spirit (4:4-6)...
7. the Word of God (4:6, 5:10)...


Ireneas and Eusebius both quote Polycarp (a disciple of John) that John once visited the public baths, and seeing Cerinthus (one of the main teachers of gnosticism) within. He ran from the building saying:

"Let us flee lest the building fall, since Cerinthus, the foe of truth, is within it."


The reason that John was so upset by this doctrine was that it was a devilish attack on the main truth taught by Jesus in His earthly ministry. John wrote the gospel of John to show the teachings of Jesus concerning this vital doctrine... Then the devil attacked its teaching very vociferously in the false doctrine of gnosticism... but John would not allow a vital doctrine to be spurned, ignored, and forgotten in Christianity by this heresy.


Today, unfortunately, the main doctrine of the teachings of the gospel of John, and of his epistle has been lost to most of Christianity. It is a doctrine that the church needs to have the revival that it once had in the former rain revival. It is a doctrine that the loss of which contributed to the "dark ages" of Christianity. We had better study such truth that this gnosticism tried to stamp out!


John was angry at this doctrine and its promoters... He attacks its premises, and reteaches the truth of the Lord. Too many times, Christianity has overlooked the whole of the truth taught by John, and taken a few of his verses out of context to teach different, though sometimes valid, concepts. Yet, the deeper, more vital truth that John is attempting to teach must be found... if we want to defeat the devil, and have real revival in these last days.

 
  • Like
Reactions: BenAdam
Upvote 0

BenAdam

Pirate King
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2006
12,032
3,357
Tortuga
✟74,213.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ireneas and Eusebius both quote Polycarp (a disciple of John) that John once visited the public baths, and seeing Cerinthus (one of the main teachers of gnosticism) within. He ran from the building saying:

"Let us flee lest the building fall, since Cerinthus, the foe of truth, is within it."

I must disagree with this statement. I don't think John would be afraid of being around someone that taught a heresy, rather he would more likely have not fled at all.
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,548
4,333
Midlands
Visit site
✟721,971.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One of the misconceptions about "revelation knowledge" (as displayed in the OP) is that the knowledge is hidden or unknown. That is not what revelation is all about. There is nothing new about the information or content of the information. The information may in fact be well known by a large number of people. Revelation knowledge is not determined by content, rather is it determined by WHERE it coming from and WHERE it is it going.
Revelation knowledge is the knowledge of the spirit in the language of the spirit. The information may be known to a person on a mental level, but not in their spirit.
Peter was a very good example. He walked with Jesus for many months. He was introduced to Jesus shortly after Jesus was baptized. Peter heard the testimony of many people concerning who Jesus was... including Jesus Himself. Peter knew on a mental level that Jesus was the Christ. Yet Jesus said all these testimonies about who He was did not cause Peter to believe:
Matt 16
15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This is revelation knowledge. It is not hidden or mysterious information that is a secret or excluded from others. The fact that Jesus was the Christ was well know among the disciples and Peter. But Jesus said that this knowledge derived by flesh and blood is not what caused Peter to believe. It was a revelation from the Father that caused Peter to believe. That is what revelation knowledge is.
I know myself that I went to Sunday school for years, went through catechism class, first communion, etc etc... and yet with all that it never really dawned on me that Jesus was Lord and Christ. I did not believe until one day a couple years after my first communion. That is when God revealed it to my spirit. That is when I received revelation knowledge.

Rom:10:
17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So revelation knowledge has nothing to do with "gnosticism" or any kind of secret or mysterious information reserved for a special few. It has nothing to do with context.. rather method, source, and target. The method is spiritual revelation, the source is the Spirit of God, the target is the spirit of the believer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Watchman4hm

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
17,653
44,424
✟169,179.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married


I must disagree with this statement. I don't think John would be afraid of being around someone that taught a heresy, rather he would more likely have not fled at all.


LOL..You can read right Ben?..It was about the building falling, not the person..lol
 
Upvote 0

BenAdam

Pirate King
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2006
12,032
3,357
Tortuga
✟74,213.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
LOL..You can read right Ben?..It was about the building falling, not the person..lol

Yes I know :) I doubt John would have feared that a building would fall. I realized my thoughts were mixed up abit.
 
Upvote 0

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 31, 2006
44,401
14,545
Vancouver
Visit site
✟449,773.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
GALLERY.gif
 
Upvote 0

New_Wineskin

Contributor
Jun 26, 2004
11,145
652
Elizabethtown , PA , usa
✟13,854.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Quote :
This thread is inspired by the one on “heresy.” If we can avoid using names and making personal comments to any living individual in or outside of this forum, I would like to hear your views on the following article from my files, providing we can stick to the ideas and not people who hold them:
The term Gnosticism derives from the Greek word gnosis, meaning "knowledge." A person who is "Gnostic" is one who exalts knowledge (today called “revelation”) above any other form of comprehension. Such “revelation knowledge” can become a tool for controlling life, as it did during the first century. As a first century heresy, Gnosticism taught that there is "secret knowledge" or "gnosis" and that these cryptic secrets are obtainable only through an elite group of Gnostic priests/teachers.


With that definition , Luther and others brought this into play by having knowledge of the Scriptures above all . It is all about knowledge and reasoning .

 
Upvote 0

JimfromOhio

Life of Trials :)
Feb 7, 2004
27,738
3,738
Central Ohio
✟67,748.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Gnostic (knowledge Gk.,gnosis) is like experiencing ascend higher into the eternal consciousness in which we cannot. I know I can't. What I can is knowing God is through right thinking about God which is very essential to true intimacy with Him. All we can know with any certainty about God is what is revealed in Scripture. I know the true God in the true way is thoroughly familiar with His Word which is the Bible. Do I accept Scripture as the revelation from God, or do I trust to speculation, human knowledge, human learning, human understanding, and human reasons? God's Word (the Bible) sometimes wounds us deeply and it is imperative because through the Bible, God speaks loudly. The Word of God (Bible) rebukes US we we read so that we may see our OWN faults (not others). The Bible illumines the dark corners of our own hearts and minds by exposing our OWN sin but at the same time reveals the way of truth. Life experiences leads me to God and the key is knowing "WHO" I am "inside" as Christ see me. Knowledge is knowing that Jesus wore a crown of thorns that I do NOT wish to wear a crown of gold. Knowledge of the mystery is having the reality of an experience of knowing God personally and consciously. No matter how much knowledge we have in the Mystery of God, we will never fully comprehend God until we die. In Isaiah 55:8-9 God says, "My thoughts are completely different from yours, and my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."

I have learned to understand the true knowledge of my Christian life which is unpredictable and expanding called "sanctification" because produces the evidence of our true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God.
 
Upvote 0

JimB

Legend
Jul 12, 2004
26,337
1,595
Nacogdoches, Texas
Visit site
✟34,757.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ireneas and Eusebius both quote Polycarp (a disciple of John) that John once visited the public baths, and seeing Cerinthus (one of the main teachers of gnosticism) within. He ran from the building saying:

"Let us flee lest the building fall, since Cerinthus, the foe of truth, is within it."
I must disagree with this statement. I don't think John would be afraid of being around someone that taught a heresy, rather he would more likely have not fled at all.

Legends tend to build up around well-know, especially well-respected, individuals. P/C’s have legends built around figures such as Jack Coe, Smith Wigglesworth and Kathryn Kuhlman, to name a few, that may or may not be factual.

An in-law of mine was at one time a powerful Pentecostal preacher (pulpiteer) whose ability to engage an audience with an OT story was the stuff of legend. People rallied en masse to hear him. He traveled throughout Texas planting churches the old-fashioned way (pitch a tent in a town, hold nightly services for weeks, gather enough people to plant a church, build/rent a building and move on to the next town). He became the stuff of sermons and I would hear a story about him from time to time. Over time, some of the stuff became legend. Once I related some of the stories I had heard about him and he laughed, slapping his thigh, and said, “If just have of that had ever happened, I could have written a book of the Bible.”

The same with the Apostle John. By the time stories of John filtered down to Polycarp, I am sure he believed them, and they might have been even more embellished by the time they got to Ireneas and Eusebius. It’s the nature of legend.

IMO.

~Jim
Beware of half-truths - you may get hold of the wrong half.
 
Upvote 0

romans6and6

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2008
205
14
✟15,411.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Even though the modern day charasmatics may have taken Gnosticism to a new level, the Reformers resurrected the idea of the body being evil while the spirit is holy.

John Calvin, in his “Institutes of Christian Religion,” wrote:

“We maintain, therefore, that sin always exists in the saints, till they are divested of the mortal body…”

“The other thing to be remarked is, that this depravity never ceases in us, but is perpetually producing new fruits – those works of the flesh which we have already described, like the emission of flames and sparks from a heated furnace, or like the streams of water form an unfailing spring. For concupiscence never dies, nor is altogether extinguished in men, till by death they are delivered from the body of death, and entirely divested of themselves.”

This thinking is definitely not unique to the modern day charismatic movement. It was taught in our cemeteries…er seminaries of the 16-century, and has been passed down through the centuries.
 
Upvote 0
E

enoch son

Guest
ES, what does this mean? :confused: Is this an attempt at sarcasm?

~Jim

Beware of half-truths - you may get hold of the wrong half.
The word say's "But you have the mind of christ." In the 2 Chapter of 2 cor. It's says that the dumbest idea of God is smarter then the wisest man. so who's your God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man and his understanding or the mind that God has given you? Only a babe would think man. the wrong half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.