How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

[Dave L]

Free will permeates the world as far as it concerns law. The law holds people responsible based on their ability to obey or disobey it. And free will is in play wherever laws exist.

In the Old Testament, God held Israel responsible for keeping the Ten Commandments based on free will. But a problem develops when we try to import free will and law into the New Covenant. God did away with law and free will has no place. So if we keep free will, it is at the expense of turning the gospel into law And God’s grace into works.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Naturally understood, believing is a trait of those who have eternal life. But if we keep free will, we turn this announcement into a law which in effect says whoever chooses to believe has eternal life. So we destroy the gospel and God’s grace turning them into law and works.

Other examples are the Philippian jailer who after the earthquake asked Paul “what must I do to be saved?” And Paul told him “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. Jesus says “whoever believes has eternal life”. So the jailer had eternal life and was a believer before he asked Paul for instructions. Or he would not have asked. But free will turns this into law and thinks salvation happens only after the jailer kept the law.

One more illustration is where Paul says “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;” Romans 10:9 (NASB95). But again, a person must already believe with their heart, that is be saved, or they would not do this.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I guess that makes sense, the law was introduced because people were doing whatever they wanted and were on a self destructive path. When someone becomes a Christian, they are born again, this new reality allows God to teach them directly .. and direct their paths.

 

[grasping the after wind]

First, A definition or some line of demarcation of free will would be nice. Can a person scratch their nose of their own accord or is the nose scratching preordained and not really a free will decision? Second, if free will existed for the Jews, was God at that point not sovereign?

 

[Dave L]

First, A definition or some line of demarcation of free will would be nice. Can a person scratch their nose of their own accord or is the nose scratching preordained and not really a free will decision? Second, if free will existed for the Jews, was God at that point not sovereign?

I think it is simple enough. Law and obedience = responsibility based on this type of free will.

 

[Dave-W]

So the jailer had eternal life and was a believer before he asked Paul for instructions. Or he would not have asked.

If he was already saved he would not have had to ask.

 

[Dave L]

If he was already saved he would not have had to ask.

He believed (was saved according to Jesus) or he would not have asked.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

First, A definition or some line of demarcation of free will would be nice. Can a person scratch their nose of their own accord or is the nose scratching preordained and not really a free will decision? Second, if free will existed for the Jews, was God at that point not sovereign?

I assumed free will is the common idea "doing whatever the hell you want". Usually if we're talking about free will in context of the "freedom" in the new testament writings, it is worded awkwardly to illustrate that we're talking about the free will that no one ever considers when saying free will. (usually because of the Calvinist vs Arminist debate.)

The point of God not being Sovereign is raised at the period of the Judges when the people said, put a king over us - When God was already king.

 

[Dave L]

I assumed free will is the common idea "doing whatever the h*** you want". Usually if we're talking about free will in context of the "freedom" in the new testament writings, it is worded awkwardly to illustrate that we're talking about the free will that no one ever considers when saying free will.

The point of God not being Sovereign is raised at the period of the Judges when the people said, put a king over us - When God was already king.

I'm defining it as law and obedience = responsibility = free will.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm defining it as law and obedience = responsibility = free will.

Which context is that definition taken from?

 

[Dave-W]

He believed (was saved according to Jesus) or he would not have asked.

Then why did he have to ask?

 

[Dave L]

Which context is that definition taken from?

The entire article.

 

[Dave L]

Then why did he have to ask?

The gospel = directions too.

 

[Dave-W]

The gospel = directions too.

And what were those directions? As you said:

And Paul told him “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”.

He had to CHOOSE to "believe on the Lord Jesus..."

He could have chosen to disobey Paul and NOT believe.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If God’s election is true how can someone fail to abide in Christ as Jesus mentioned in John 15:6?

 

[section9+1]

Within Calvinism is there ever a point in the life of an elect person when he is not saved? He may be programmed to eventually come to Christ, but before that happens in the program, is that person unsaved?

 

[Dave L]

And what were those directions? As you said:

He had to CHOOSE to "believe on the Lord Jesus..."

He could have chosen to disobey Paul and NOT believe.

You are reading a fair amount of conjecture into this passage. Paul simply assured him that believing on Jesus saves. And then baptized him.

 

[com7fy8]

But again, a person must already believe with their heart, that is be saved, or they would not do this.

Or, maybe we can consider that the Holy Spirit already believes before bringing someone to believe. And we are not God; so how ever could we know, on our own?

But our Apostle Paul says, "we" "first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12. So, even is someone has come to realize that Jesus is our Savior, still the person can need to know he or she needs to trust in Jesus. So, believing-knowing can have you ask what must you do; then you move on to trusting being how you are believing.

And this includes > "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23) My self includes my own will, I consider. So, I need to get beyond how my own will is able to do things, by trusting in and depending on Jesus. And then > as it is written >

"it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (in Philippians 2:13)

So, we in Jesus have God working our willing. To me, this means God initiates, at any moment what He knows He wants us to will to do. And we are not God; so how can we know at each moment what He wants? In order to do what He wants, then, at any moment, I need to deny my own self and will and not at all depend on or trust my own self.

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, at every moment > God desires to rule my heart with my will, in His own peace. This means being personally submissive to God, at every moment. And this means major correction of my nature so I am capable of being and staying submissive to how God personally rules us in His own peace.

So, how well has anyone in one's own free will been doing this? If my will is free from God, how can God be ruling my will and heart and working in me "both to will and to do for His good pleasure"? (in Philippians 2:13)

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If each of us is more and more "one spirit with Him", it is more and more our nature to stay submissive to God in His peace. Jesus in us, growing in us as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19 > is sharing with us how He is always submissive to our Heavenly Father > Galatians 2:20.

And God is correcting us so we are so sharing with Him > more and more as we grow > Hebrews 12:4-14 > so it is wise to actively seek our Father to truly correct us, like this.

So, Biblical believing is about all God is able to do in our character and loving. This means all God knows His word means, all He believes He is able to do in us > Isaiah 55:11.

 

[Dave L]

Or, maybe we can consider that the Holy Spirit already believes before bringing someone to believe. And we are not God; so how ever could we know, on our own?

But our Apostle Paul says, "we" "first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12. So, even is someone has come to realize that Jesus is our Savior, still the person can need to know he or she needs to trust in Jesus. So, believing-knowing can have you ask what must you do; then you move on to trusting being how you are believing.

And this includes > "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23) My self includes my own will, I consider. So, I need to get beyond how my own will is able to do things, by trusting in and depending on Jesus. And then > as it is written >

"it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (in Philippians 2:13)

So, we in Jesus have God working our willing. To me, this means God initiates, at any moment what He knows He wants us to will to do. And we are not God; so how can we know at each moment what He wants? In order to do what He wants, then, at any moment, I need to deny my own self and will and not at all depend on or trust my own self.

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, at every moment > God desires to rule my heart with my will, in His own peace. This means being personally submissive to God, at every moment. And this means major correction of my nature so I am capable of being and staying submissive to how God personally rules us in His own peace.

So, how well has anyone in one's own free will been doing this? If my will is free from God, how can God be ruling my will and heart and working in me "both to will and to do for His good pleasure"? (in Philippians 2:13)

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If each of us is more and more "one spirit with Him", it is more and more our nature to stay submissive to God in His peace. Jesus in us, growing in us as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19 > is sharing with us how He is always submissive to our Heavenly Father > Galatians 2:20.

And God is correcting us so we are so sharing with Him > more and more as we grow > Hebrews 12:4-14 > so it is wise to actively seek our Father to truly correct us, like this.

So, Biblical believing is about all God is able to do in our character and loving. This means all God knows His word means, all He believes He is able to do in us > Isaiah 55:11.

But all depends of Faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave-W]

You are reading a fair amount of conjecture into this passage. Paul simply assured him that believing on Jesus saves. And then baptized him.

Except for the fact that "believe" is in the form of a command.

 

[Dave-W]

But all depends of Faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Faith is also a gift.

Romans 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.