How far is too far?

[doclkk]

I asked this on my previous board but it was only addressed by one individual.

When dating, how far is too far before marriage?

I've been to a lot of retreats, a lot of seminars and workshops, and none of them have addressed this issue. =/

 

[sparrow1029]

You ask a question that deals with grey areas, and when dealing with grey areas there is seldom a clear cut answer. Of course, the bible does make it clear that you should not sleep with someone outside of marriage, but you, I think, are asking this question to see exactly where the line between sinning and not sinning lies.

I would say that depends on you and the other person in the relationship. For some people, cuddling and kissing does not lead to temptation. For others, it crosses the line.

What might help is to think of it this way: you are called to love your neighbor as yourself. The description of this kind of love is found in 1 Cor 13:4-8. Instead of focusing on what you should not do, focus also on what you should do and I think many of your questions will resolve themselves. A lot of the behaviors that lead people into sin in this area are based on selfishness--that is, what they can get out of the relationship to feel good emotionally or physically. But a good, strong relationship isn't based on what you can get from the other person, its based on what you can give to them.

 

[72_Chev_Truck]

I think too far is anytime you feel tempted to do more. When you say oh a little more wont hurt anything, its not sex its just (name a thing that couples do often). i think in a relationship there needs to be a line drawn that you cannot cross.

 

[evita]

I think one way to keep you from going too far would be to have to tell your mom, dad, or some other trusted adult what you have done that night after the date. This will hopefully keep you accountable for your actions.

 

[msjones21]

It varies from couple to couple. I'd venture to guess the activities that would get any couple "geared up for more" would be:

~Making out
~Cuddling
~Caressing/petting
and then anything past that. I would say anything more than a quick kiss would be far to tempting to take things to the next level.

I like what Joshua Harris says. Making love isn't merely the act of intercourse, it's the entire package. He says once mouths touch the process of leading to intercourse has begun.

 

[doclkk]

I don't like the I kissed dating goodbye. I think it breaks up too many relationships.

 

[superdave]

Personally my lines with a girl is to keep little physical contact as possible. The Three H's: Holding Hands, Hugging, and Holding Each other- I think are innocent showings of affection. I don't think Kissing is bad- but just as long as it's not for long periods of time (what about on the cheek? Or a peck on the lips- that's harmless.). Also I firmly believe that the more time you spend alone with each other is when the MOST temptation comes. So I think the more time you spend with groups of friends and in public safe enviroments- and doing constructive things- and building your spiritual and emotional sides- will make a relationship work.

For Some People, Kissing Dating Goodbye- is a good idea. I know some of my friends that need to Kiss Dating Goodbye- But I am at a place in my life- where I know HOW to treat a lady with respect and honor as Christ would. Why rob me of dating?- When I see the correct way to do so? I believe God both honors dating and not dating. Issac and Rebecca were set up through courting, but David and Abigal weren't... God honored BOTH of these marriages.

 

[micro]

I personaly believe that you only date prospects to mary. So why be in a rush. You have the rest of your lives together.
Also try to keep in mind what would i want my wife to be doing with another man? Just because a couple is serious dosnt mean for 100% sure that you will be maried!

 

[superdave]

Exactly Micro... I think the same way- and it makes me angry to even think if a man was taking advantage of her right now.

 

[PennylessZ28]

I personaly believe that you only date prospects to mary. So why be in a rush. You have the rest of your lives together.
Also try to keep in mind what would i want my wife to be doing with another man? Just because a couple is serious dosnt mean for 100% sure that you will be maried!

YEAH, if she went that far with you she probably did it with others. Unless your the first, then you might be lucky.

 

[msjones21]

I don't like the I kissed dating goodbye. I think it breaks up too many relationships.

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I wonder if you've actually gotten past the title and read the book? It's not meant to get people to break up. Most people who are in a relationship aren't going to read it. If they do and they feel God is calling them to break up with someone well, we can't blame that on a book. Are we going to blame it on God? I certainly hope not. Besides, unless that is the person we're going to marry then it may hurt, but it's insignificant in the grand scheme of things. How would you know if they relationship didn't end to make room for God's chosen one for you? The book isn't for everyone, even the author admits that but it is a great tool to equip you for purposeful singleness and if you're looking for something more.

 

[msjones21]

The Three H's: Holding Hands, Hugging, and Holding Each other- I think are innocent showings of affection.

I had a quick question to add here. When you say holding each other do you mean as in laying down and cuddling or just a loving embrace after a date or what have you? I would say that if you meant holding each other while laying down all pressed together, I'm not so sure how innocent that would be LOL A nice bear hug though is nice, but you have to be careful then as well. I know that with guys all it takes is a good gust of wind for them to get excited, but it's better if we stay away from situations that would cause hormones to surge. I know from my own personal experiences, all it takes is being pressed against ecah other for any length of time and the guy wants to go further. Not all guys are like that. I suppose there are some who possess superhuman self-control, but as a general rule in situations like that it's easy to forget God wants you to remain pure in action AND in thought. Argh, I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

*steps down from her soapbox*

 

[evita]

I had a quick question to add here. When you say holding each other do you mean as in laying down and cuddling or just a loving embrace after a date or what have you? I would say that if you meant holding each other while laying down all pressed together, I'm not so sure how innocent that would be LOL A nice bear hug though is nice, but you have to be careful then as well. I know that with guys all it takes is a good gust of wind for them to get excited, but it's better if we stay away from situations that would cause hormones to surge. I know from my own personal experiences, all it takes is being pressed against ecah other for any length of time and the guy wants to go further. Not all guys are like that. I suppose there are some who possess superhuman self-control, but as a general rule in situations like that it's easy to forget God wants you to remain pure in action AND in thought. Argh, I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

*steps down from her soapbox*

I agree with you Ms Jones. I think that lying and cuddling feels great, but can lead to very very bad things. (I'm speaking from experience.) So, I wonder what he meant by holding...

 

[doclkk]

Yea, actually I've gotten past the title, the book and even the documentary/video. I again, stand by my view, it breaks up too many relationships. I don't think Josh Harris properly addresses the idea of being in a relationship. I think that kissing is fine and does not destroy the reverence of a relationship despite hormones do surge. I really have difficulty believing that God created those hormones only for married couples.

 

[msjones21]

Doclkk, could you please explain to me just how you feel it breaks up relationships? Have you personally known people who read Joshua's books and told their boyfriend or girlfriend it was over because Joshua Harris told them so? How can you be so certain it wasn't God's way of removing that person from the other person's life for a reason?

I really have difficulty believing that God created those hormones only for married couples.

I'm sorry you don't believe what the Word of God says. People who use and abuse those hormones outside of marriage reap the consequences eventually. God wouldn't command us to be pure if He thought it would hurt us. Just the opposite, really. He commands us to refrain from taking advatnage of the sex drives He equips us with before marriage because that is what is good for us.

 

[doclkk]

Doclkk, could you please explain to me just how you feel it breaks up relationships? Have you personally known people who read Joshua's books and told their boyfriend or girlfriend it was over because Joshua Harris told them so? How can you be so certain it wasn't God's way of removing that person from the other person's life for a reason?


I'm sorry you don't believe what the Word of God says. People who use and abuse those hormones outside of marriage reap the consequences eventually. God wouldn't command us to be pure if He thought it would hurt us. Just the opposite, really. He commands us to refrain from taking advatnage of the sex drives He equips us with before marriage because that is what is good for us.

Many parents, especially Asian parents, after completing Mr. Harris' books believe that their children should not date and therefore make them break up. So yes, I do personally know people that have broken up because of it. I think the better question to your question is how do you know that it was God's way of removing that persom from the other peron's life for a reason. You are making the assertion under the premise that relationships get broken up and thus you have the burden of proof, not me.

As for the latter portion, you shouldn't be sorry for something that isn't true. I do believe what the Word of God says but the question is. I believe that kissing, although it opens up sex drives, does not entail sex and can still ultimately be seen as holy in the sight of God. I think it is rather offensive for you to assert that I do not believe in the Word of God despite the symbol above my user name that I personally affirm to be a Christian. If you would like to continue to misinterpret me, I invite you to, however, I do not see anywhere in my afforementioned statement about condoning sex but rather through the context, condoning kissing.

 

[JillLars]

Making love isn't merely the act of intercourse, it's the entire package. He says once mouths touch the process of leading to intercourse has begun.

I would have to disagree with this statement as well. You don't have sex with someone everytime you kiss them, nor do you want to. When I kiss my fiance goodbye before he leaves for work are we beginning the process of intercourse? I think not. I say to each his own, some people believe you can't know that you will be with someone forever until you get married, but I disagree, by that logic you can't know that you will be with someone forever period. I think that you can know, and I think that each person needs to make a decision before God about how far they are going to go with their s/o, and keep that promise.

 

[Breetai]

I couldn't imagine not cuddling up with my girlfriend (whoever that may be ). If you're not careful, yes, it can lead to more. I think a good idea is to cuddle up in front of a movie when there are other people in the house. If you're all alone with someone, going out on a date is an excellent idea.

I just like cuddling too much!

 

[en|gma]

I think i've participated in a thread like this before the infamous CF breakdown...

Anyway, I agree with JH about kissing as involved in the whole package of sex. Besides, there's the law of diminishing return, where it initially satisfies you...but then you go the next level coz u want more...and so on and so forth.

However, I also believe that there are different and unique limits for every relationship. For some couples, kissing may be the borderline, but for some, no physical contact at all. It depends on the couple really. I wouldnt advice young people to even go as far as kissing. Maybe if you're more into late twenties or early thirties where you can have more self-control and not be hormone-controlled, then u can venture into kissing. I don't know...I'm not so sure about what I'm saying.

But I've always been conservative about physical intimacy...even with my ex...we just went as far as holding hands. Although I admit that I have recently crossed the border, and went beyond my own expectations of myself...and that's not with my bf at all! I dont have a bf now *sigh*

Beleive me, these desires and longings become much more stronger when u do even a little thing such as kissing. And I needed to distance myself from the guy for a week to let God some time to work in me and gain control once more.