How far is too far?

[Vulgivagus hagiographus]

What standards do you adhere to as a Christian in your writing? I’m currently contemplating a story that would have quite a few non-Christian elements in it, but would have a Christian moral. Pretty much what I’m planning on is giving this character a terribly messed up life and then showing how God can fix it. It’s a good message, but the story would have such things as (l)ust, deceit, criminal activity, etc. I have ethics that I never plan on passing. Here they are:

1. Never write a “sex scene.” Such things can play a role in the plot, but never write the actual act. That should remain sacred between the two individuals. (Not that I have any experience in that area. )
2. Never write curses. You can put things like, “he cursed,” but never write out specific foul words.
3. (Not really relating to Christianity, but it is one.) Don’t pass off something as true that you know is false. (F)antasty and sci-fi is doesn’t fall under this category since it’s obvious it’s not true. An example of this would be Nero being nice to Christians.
4. The audience knows what is right and what is wrong at the end of the story. The bad guy might win, but they know whom the good guy was and will follow after his example.

There might be more. The story I’m thinking about wouldn’t cross any of those lines. I don’t think I would feel bad about writing this if I was older, but I’m just seventeen! I’ve heard before, “If you wouldn’t let your pastor read it, don’t write it.” I think I would if I was an (a)dult, but it doesn’t seem like the sort of thing that would come out of a good Christian teenaged (g)irl. Most everyone I know says I’m mature for my age, and I would strive to handle the story maturely. I know that doesn’t mean much coming from me. I’m the sort of (g)irl that always follows Christianity to the letter and doesn’t ever get in trouble (and proud of it). It’s not a pointless dirty story, I guess, but the characters are immoral. I’ve probably already said this, but the message is really powerful, and I would love to expose it through this story. Anyway, your comments will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Blessed-one]

i agree with all you said there except point 3. With a little bit of cursing (if the character was that bad), you can put the message of how bad cursing is in your story, dramatized by his turning to God and struggling to throw his bad language out.

 

[Vulgivagus hagiographus]

I think you can still show that somebody uses alot of foul language even without writing out the specific words. Such as,

Mat stubbed his toe and cursed violently.

Rather than,

Mat stubbed his toe. "@$*^ doorframe!" he yelled.

That's my way of handling the situation. It might not always work, but I prefer not subjecting my audience to needless foul words. Thanks for your impute, Blessed-one! It's very much appreciated.

Oh, I thought of another one:

5. No pointless (v)iolence. Also, if there is no need to write out the graphic details of a violent scene (such as (b)lood gushed everywhere) don't do it. Viewpoint character and other such factors can determine the amount necessary.

 

[Lucubratus]

Hi there.
My replies are in bold text.

What standards do you adhere to as a Christian in your writing? I’m currently contemplating a story that would have quite a few non-Christian elements in it, but would have a Christian moral. Pretty much what I’m planning on is giving this character a terribly messed up life and then showing how God can fix it. It’s a good message, but the story would have such things as (l)ust, deceit, criminal activity, etc. I have ethics that I never plan on passing. Here they are:

Your target audience is Christian, right? So I don't see where a Christian would think a character who is less than savory is going too far. As a matter of fact, I'm sure they've encountered such folks in real life and would be nodding their heads a lot. *laughs ironically* You would be creating a character they already know.


1. Never write a “sex scene.” Such things can play a role in the plot, but never write the actual act. That should remain sacred between the two individuals. (Not that I have any experience in that area. )

I never did see much point in getting explicit with sex scenes, even in a so-called romance novel; since IMO romance is 99% other stuff that has both parties with their clothes on.


2. Never write curses. You can put things like, “he cursed,” but never write out specific foul words.

Sometimes life is harsh with words and people speak like that. I wouldn't go so far as to say use the f word, but that's the way it goes. If it bothers you to type it though, don't.


3. (Not really relating to Christianity, but it is one.) Don’t pass off something as true that you know is false. (F)antasty and sci-fi is doesn’t fall under this category since it’s obvious it’s not true. An example of this would be Nero being nice to Christians.

I'm glad you don't think fantasy falls under this category because that is what I write. There is however, nothin more annoying than reading a novel based on planet earth with say, a Roman empirical background and the author is playing loose with history or even the mythologies.


4. The audience knows what is right and what is wrong at the end of the story. The bad guy might win, but they know whom the good guy was and will follow after his example.

One of the rules of writing: Don't insult your reader's intelligence. You can do that by being too "preachy" about what is right or wrong. That goes for any genre, actually. A case example for your presumed target audience is don't make your good guy TOO good, he's human aftter all




There might be more. The story I’m thinking about wouldn’t cross any of those lines. I don’t think I would feel bad about writing this if I was older, but I’m just seventeen!

You might be 17 chronologically, but at that age I was going on in my 30's. lol. These "rules" you have listed are all well and good if they're going to work for you but there is a very slight possibility they won't work for your audience. It really does depend, so don't think I'm being deadset against it, I'm not.



I’ve heard before, “If you wouldn’t let your pastor read it, don’t write it.” I think I would if I was an (a)dult, but it doesn’t seem like the sort of thing that would come out of a good Christian teenaged (g)irl. Most everyone I know says I’m mature for my age, and I would strive to handle the story maturely. I know that doesn’t mean much coming from me.

Hmm...if I went to church, I would let my pastor read my writing. Though it is fantasy and not always allegorical - anyone reading it could tell I had a deep faith and was "religious" even though the context can sometimes be very strong. Striving to handle the story maturely means a lot I would just say, don't think your age has anything to do with your writing. I'm speaking from experience. You don't have to HAVE the experience in real life to convey it correctly in a story.



I’m the sort of (g)irl that always follows Christianity to the letter and doesn’t ever get in trouble (and proud of it). It’s not a pointless dirty story, I guess, but the characters are immoral. I’ve probably already said this, but the message is really powerful, and I would love to expose it through this story. Anyway, your comments will be greatly appreciated.

Another rule in writing: don't be gratuitous/pointless and it won't matter if the character is immoral nor even saintly. That falls in step, oddly enough - with insulting the reader's intelligence.
You also now have me curious to read the story. LOL! Are you going to post it on here?


Peace,

Lucu

 

[Vulgivagus hagiographus]

Thank you so very much! Now it's my turn to clarify:

Your target audience is Christian, right? So I don't see where a Christian would think a character who is less than savory is going too far. As a matter of fact, I'm sure they've encountered such folks in real life and would be nodding their heads a lot. *laughs ironically* You would be creating a character they already know.

The one web site I'm specifically going to post this story on is not Christian by any means, so it is very likely that nonbelievers will be reading it. It can't be published otherwise, since it's fanfiction (Star Wars).

Sometimes life is harsh with words and people speak like that. I wouldn't go so far as to say use the f word, but that's the way it goes. If it bothers you to type it though, don't.

Yeah, I guess I should clarify that these are my personal ethics, and I'm not saying anyone else has to use them (though I would recomend it). It's just a personal conviction that we shouldn't be using such words in any form since they displease God. Who knows, that might change in time, but I don't think this one will mess up my stories at this point in my life.

I'm glad you don't think fantasy falls under this category because that is what I write. There is however, nothin more annoying than reading a novel based on planet earth with say, a Roman empirical background and the author is playing loose with history or even the mythologies. :m :

Yeah, I'd be in a bit of a pickle if I put (f)antasy and sci-fi in this category since that's what I mainly write too.

One of the rules of writing: Don't insult your reader's intelligence. You can do that by being too "preachy" about what is right or wrong. That goes for any genre, actually. A case example for your presumed target audience is don't make your good guy TOO good, he's human aftter all

I'll have to remember that one. So tempting to call the little fanfiction readers idiots... But my good guy isn't human, he's an alien! (Okay, now I'm just being stupid). Ah, the joys of sci-fi. I don't think I do have any perfect characters in this story. For some reason I always am able to pull out the bad in characters.

You also now have me curious to read the story. LOL! Are you going to post it on here?

Eh, sorry. Hey, I'll be lucky to get it off the ground! I have a hard time getting into the actual physical writing part. This story might come together, then again, it might not. If it gets done withing the next millenium, I'll post a link to where it is. This specific topic can be used for many stories, and I hope that others around her can benefit from it as well! Thanks again!

 

[Lucubratus]

Thank you so very much! Now it's my turn to clarify:

Ah so glad you clarified! Now I KNOW what I am talking about. LOL!



Since you're character is an alien, he can curse until the cows come home and you won't have to write an Earth curse at all nor explain what the curse word means. It's the tone and inflection that makes something a curse. It's the content in which it is used that makes it vulgar.
In my fantasy word, calling someone a p'muh (which sounds like "fah-moo") is really an insult, but then you don't know what it is, do you?

At least there I have been able to have been of assistance.




Good luck with the story - and there are series of books from Writer's Digest you should be able to find in the library that may be of help; one is called "How to Write Tales of Horror, Fantasy, and Science-Fiction." It didn't help me a lot as I already figured it out - but that's just an example. You can also find a list they publish at writersdigest.com that you can check for availability at the library.

 

[katelyn]

1. Never write a “sex scene.” Such things can play a role in the plot, but never write the actual act. That should remain sacred between the two individuals. (Not that I have any experience in that area. )
2. Never write curses. You can put things like, “he cursed,” but never write out specific foul words.
3. (Not really relating to Christianity, but it is one.) Don’t pass off something as true that you know is false. (F)antasty and sci-fi is doesn’t fall under this category since it’s obvious it’s not true. An example of this would be Nero being nice to Christians.
4. The audience knows what is right and what is wrong at the end of the story. The bad guy might win, but they know whom the good guy was and will follow after his example.

I agree with all the guidelines you listed.

I also won't put curses into my work. If needed for realistic effect, I'll do the same type of thing you mentioned (saying "he cursed" in the narration), but I try not to go overboard with that, because I've seen some Christian work that I felt included too many of those phrases and found it a little distracting. But I prefer not to include the actual words because at least for me, I feel like if I'm actually reading the foul language, it kind of "gets into my head" if you know what I mean...it can stick with you. Of course, we can't completely avoid it in our society, but when possible I like to avoid unnecessary exposure.

I haven't thought much about the whole "bad guy/good guy" thing, as my stories are usually about people facing a tough situation rather than opposition in the form of a person or group. Of course, there are people influencing the main character on either side, but it's not as clear-cut as having a "good guy" and a "bad guy." I think having the main character/good guy's flaws come out at some point in the story is important to show that they are human (or at least, imperfect, no matter what life form they are ), and to add to the conflict of the story. Ah, inner conflict.

 

[Lyle]

2. Never write curses. You can put things like, “he cursed,” but never write out specific foul words.

I guess I'm guilty for this one.. Or I might argue if it is even fowl in the context I used it in.... The literal act of damnation...

 

[Lucubratus]

I think standard curse words are sort of boring. In the fantasy settings I write in, I don't like using things like the f word or the slang for human feces ;-) s it could give the reader to much of an impression of being back on our planet. I started making up my own "vile curses and insults" - incorporated it a time or two in my own life and made the other person either speechless or had my friends rolling in laughter. It tends to break the tension and the hostile person it was aimed at suddenly realizes how ignorant their litany of foul words really is.

 

[wgjones3]

I find the whole idea of cursing somewhat mute. Anyone writing for a CBA market had better resign themselves to the fact that they can't use them. Myself, I made the decsion fifteen years or so ago that I wouldn't use profanity in my work because I wanted it to honor God. I feel if I can't lay my work on the altar of the Lord, I have no business writing it.

Now, I know a lot of people say you can't have really bad guys without having them curse. Not true. As one reviewer said of my favorite television show, Boomtown, the bad guys come across as bad without having to utter so much as a mild profanity, which makes writers of such profanity-laced shows as the Surpranos seem lazy by comparison. Now, I do use the trick of saying he cursed or he swore in the narrative, but for the most part, I try to make what the bad guys so so bad that you're hit by it on an intellectual level. For example, don't just say that Billy Bob was an ignorant slob who swore a lot. Show Billy Bob swilling beer, bossing his wife around, threatening her, and abusing his child--you can do all of that without uttering a single profanity or using the phrase, he cussed. In the end, you'll have a guy that the reader hates so much that they don't even know whether or not he cussed, nor do they care. They hate him with a passion, which is exactly what you want.

My rules for writing:

1. No profanity.
2. No pornography.
3. No glamorization of violence.
4. No cliches.
5. Good ALWAYS triumphs over evil, even if it's not quite the way the reader wants it to.

 

[oncewaslost]

aw, cliches can be fun!

 

[fop107]

I'm looking for some insights into the idea of a church owning a nightclub. There is a trend for churches to open these establishments for the purpose of drawing in the masses at their level with the intention to build relationship and share Christ. The church I'm working at is thinking of doing this. No booze, but we will have raves and secular tunz (edited). How far is too far?

 

[InLuvWithHim]

i agree with all you said there except point 3. With a little bit of cursing (if the character was that bad), you can put the message of how bad cursing is in your story, dramatized by his turning to God and struggling to throw his bad language out.

I have a friend who is a Christian novelist (Multnomah Publishers) and she says she tried to include a few profanities, but they were automatically edited out.

 

[Jazzcat]

I am a writer because I want what I write to glorify God. I want my readers to be able to slip inside my character and, for a while, become that character, live in that character's world, think what my character thinks and feel what my character feels. I want them to come away from my book feeling renewed in some manner, and changed for the better. That's why, CD, I never have even considered using profanity in any form in my books. And my bad guys always turn out great! I love my bad guys!!!

The other reason that I don't use profanity is simple: I might end up with a best-seller! Hey, it can happen! But if you listen to music/movies, and a person cusses, every time that song/movie is played, it's like the person cussed all over again. I don't know about you, but I don't want to show up face to face with Jesus when I die and have to go, "Ew! I cussed a million and three times in my life??" That would not be cool.

And you also cause the reader to cuss when they read your words. Doubly not cool. The world is full of enough yuck without me adding to it, so I won't!

The same goes for love. I love true love, which is exciting, perfect, beautiful, and where problems turn out to be growing opportunities for both parties involved! Which is why I throw plenty of conflict between the main characters. And since real, perfect, true love waits, we don't even go "there".

I think your storyline sounds intriguing. Do write it! Even if you're not sure you or anyone else will like it, it's a good, solid, unique idea. Throw it on paper, let some friends and family read it, and see what happens! You never know! And if they totally hate it, which is not likely, then you have the experience of writing it to add to your bookshelf. Most likely, there will be parts in there that you or somebod(ies) think you should change, and that should be easy once you have the story down.

Well, have a lot of fun! I hope some of these comments help. Write your story. Pray through it and go right to THE main source of inspiration! God is always giving me these really great ideas that I could never have come up with on my own. Maybe I should put His name on the front cover, instead of mine...

Blessings,
Jazzcat

 

[Jazzcat]

Oh! Remember that writing, as with all forms of media, is very powerful. Writers shape the world... literally! It's a pretty big responsibility to handle any gift, such as writing or art or drama. Hollywood shapes the mindset of this country. Just imagine if Christians could invade that realm and begin to take over! Look at what the Passion has done!! OOOOH!!! I get goosebumps just thinking about it!!!