How far does Noahide go....

[visionary]

STATEMENT BY AMBASSADOR ELYAKIM RUBINSTEIN ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ISRAEL HEAD OF ISRAELI DELEGATION
Mr. President,

Let me open by extending to you our warm wishes for your success and the success of this Conference. We would also like to express our appreciation to the Government of Italy for hosting the Conference.

Some fifteen hundred years ago, the sages of the Talmud, the classic Jewish code, sought to distil the moral essence of the Bible into seven fundamental laws, as the basis of a universal morality. Six of these so-called Noachide laws, applying to all mankind, were elementary moral prohibitions: not to murder, not to steal, and so on. But to these negative commandments was added one positive injunction: the commandment to establish courts of justice. Enforcement is essential, lest criminals evade their punishment.

Today, on the verge of a new millennium, we, representatives of the nations of the world, gather in a effort to fulfill that injunction to establish courts of justice and to see that crimes do not go unpunished.

http://www.un.org/icc/speeches/617isr.htm

 

[ShirChadash]

this sounds like a threat to me

lol right, because I have such powah I could uhm...
lol at you on an online message board. And that's about it. No, I actually was referring to them not organizing enough yet IMO but then I found some awesome resources available for Noachides, including homeschool support etc and I think that's great for them. Threat, no not unless my looking at your posts from what I gather is a very long distance from you is threatening to you or anyone else, somehow.

 

[FaithfulWife]

(Please note that this thread had effectively died and not been responded to in about a week, and that neither myself nor any other MJ or MB tried to revive it and start the fight again. Lulav please just don't even respond and let this one go back on down the list where it belongs.)

 

[ShirChadash]

(Please note that this thread had effectively died and not been responded to in about a week, and that neither myself nor any other MJ or MB tried to revive it and start the fight again. Lulav please just don't even respond and let this one go back on down the list where it belongs.)

Excuse me, i didn't post to this to "revive a 'fight'". I saw Lulab's comment regarding my post and decided to clarify. Would you rather I let her comment that I was being "threatening" (uhm, huh?) stand without clarification? No. I don't think I have to do that, especially since it is patently ridiculous. Now, more than fine with me if this thread dies a lonely, shameful death falling down the pages of this forum, as it should. I had something to say, and I said it. Period.

 

[visionary]

Theologically... in trying to find it in the bible...

From The Kuzari (3:73)

"G-d, the Almighty commanded Adam saying, 'From all the trees of the garden you may eat'" (Bereishis, 2:16) is an allusion to the seven Noachide commandments.

The interpretation of this verse is as follows:

"commanded" refers to laws (concerning monetary matters),
"G-d" refers to blasphemy,
"Almighty" refers to idolatry,
"Adam" refers to murder,
"saying" refers to adultery,
"from all the trees of the garden" refers to thievery,
"you may eat" refers to eating the flesh of a live animal.
{It is quite obvious} that the verse has little connection with the above laws. However, the Sages intended {their references} as a hint which helps one remember something which the entire nation knows the seven Noachide commandments.

http://www.noachide.org.uk/html/biblical_source.html

 

[Meshavrischika]

that seems like a real stretch (sorry)

 

[visionary]

that seems like a real stretch (sorry)

That was my thought.

 

[FaithfulWife]

I'm sorry but this is the Messianic Jewish forum. On this forum, the rabbinic interpretation of the Jewish religion is not the spiritual standard that we want to discuss, and anything OTHER than Messianic Jewish theology IS opinion on this forum and on this thread. I no longer want to hear the rabbinic "opinion" and I don't want the war to be fought in our forum. I have no control over what goes on in other forums, in THIS forum it is MESSIANIC JEWISH and MESSIANIC BELIEVERS. Thus, once again I ask for my fellow MJs/MBs to please ignore any attempt to renew the fight and let this thread die. We can either choose to unite and ignore it the bait, or we can report, report, report on our forum...but I would like it to be the way that we operate here.

And fair warning--if attempts are made to bait us back into a fight on this thread, I have no hesitation to report as that is the proper way to notify authorities that someone is trying to stir up strife.



~Faithful

 

[ShirChadash]

I'm sorry but this is the Messianic Jewish forum. On this forum, the rabbinic interpretation of the Jewish religion is not the spiritual standard that we want to discuss, and anything OTHER than Messianic Jewish theology IS opinion on this forum and on this thread. I no longer want to hear the rabbinic "opinion" and I don't want the war to be fought in our forum. I have no control over what goes on in other forums, in THIS forum it is MESSIANIC JEWISH and MESSIANIC BELIEVERS. Thus, once again I ask for my fellow MJs/MBs to please ignore any attempt to renew the fight and let this thread die. We can either choose to unite and ignore it the bait, or we can report, report, report on our forum...but I would like it to be the way that we operate here.

And fair warning--if attempts are made to bait us back into a fight on this thread, I have no hesitation to report as that is the proper way to notify authorities that someone is trying to stir up strife.



~Faithful

YKW no one has brought a fight, or renewed it but Messianics.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm sorry but this is the Messianic Jewish forum. On this forum, the rabbinic interpretation of the Jewish religion is not the spiritual standard that we want to discuss, and anything OTHER than Messianic Jewish theology IS opinion on this forum and on this thread. I no longer want to hear the rabbinic "opinion" and I don't want the war to be fought in our forum. I have no control over what goes on in other forums, in THIS forum it is MESSIANIC JEWISH and MESSIANIC BELIEVERS. Thus, once again I ask for my fellow MJs/MBs to please ignore any attempt to renew the fight and let this thread die. We can either choose to unite and ignore it the bait, or we can report, report, report on our forum...but I would like it to be the way that we operate here.

And fair warning--if attempts are made to bait us back into a fight on this thread, I have no hesitation to report as that is the proper way to notify authorities that someone is trying to stir up strife.

~Faithful

Greetings. Why is a Calvinist here dictating terms on an MJ forum as I would assume the MJs would handle that? Or are you a mod? Just curious.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Greetings. Why is a Calvinist here dictating terms on an MJ forum as I would assume the MJs would handle that? Or are you a mod? Just curious.

Hi LittleLamb~

Actually I don't think you and I have ever met. I'm just a member here like anyone else. I have a Calvinist faith icon thingy because my dear hubby is a Calvinist and it's sort of in honor of him. I myself personally am a Messianic Jew and hang out a lot here at MJ or MW (write here on the MJ forum and read a bit on MW--don't write there anymore). So when you say that MJ's would handle it that is exactly what I was attempting to do--have an MJ take care of our own forum.

By the way, I'm not trying to dictate either. I think as a general rule we are trying to have MJ be a spot on CF where a Messianic Jewish person can come and converse and even state their case or belief and not have to fight with other religions or denominations. This particular thread did stir up some quite a bit of controversey and it was more or less dying a natural death. My hope was that this particular thread was over and thus the "fighting" over it, but it has been brought back to life by people who are not MJ. That's why I said what I said--I would prefer to let it go and hopefully just discuss other things. For a long time I attempted to ask for peace and ask for others to stand together with me to stop the poking at each other, and since that did not occur I did decide to just let the authorities take care of it and stop getting my own nose in the middle. That's not my job, but it is a mod's job, so I just let them do it!

Anyway, it's nice to meet ya!


~Faithful

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi LittleLamb~

Actually I don't think you and I have ever met. I'm just a member here like anyone else. I have a Calvinist faith icon thingy because my dear hubby is a Calvinist and it's sort of in honor of him. I myself personally am a Messianic Jew and hang out a lot here at MJ or MW (write here on the MJ forum and read a bit on MW--don't write there anymore). So when you say that MJ's would handle it that is exactly what I was attempting to do--have an MJ take care of our own forum.

By the way, I'm not trying to dictate either. I think as a general rule we are trying to have MJ be a spot on CF where a Messianic Jewish person can come and converse and even state their case or belief and not have to fight with other religions or denominations. This particular thread did stir up some quite a bit of controversey and it was more or less dying a natural death. My hope was that this particular thread was over and thus the "fighting" over it, but it has been brought back to life by people who are not MJ. That's why I said what I said--I would prefer to let it go and hopefully just discuss other things. For a long time I attempted to ask for peace and ask for others to stand together with me to stop the poking at each other, and since that did not occur I did decide to just let the authorities take care of it and stop getting my own nose in the middle. That's not my job, but it is a mod's job, so I just let them do it!

Anyway, it's nice to meet ya!


~Faithful

Greetings. Ok thanks for clarifying that, and nice to meet you also.

 

[ShirChadash]

This thread has been clarified. By two people. One (me) replying to a comment directly flaming me and mischaracterizing my previous comment, and one (MD) who is himself a noachide (I believe the only one who has come to this thread). And neither of us has "fought" or made derogatory comments about messianicism for you all to "defend yourselves against". The only "fighting" going on on this thread is being done by MJs, regardless the fact that I bumped it to reply to a comment about ME that I had not yet had a chance to address before. And FTR a week or so, as you claimed it had been quiet, is NOT a long time for a thread to drop down the listing and then be replied to, it's not like I went necro-posting to a long-dead thread to beat an old dead horse.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

no post..........OT

 

[visionary]

It is found in the Babylonian Talmud. So... what does that mean?

"There are two editions of the Talmud, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. Of these two, the Babylonian Talmud is authoritative for Orthodox Judaism, which regards it as divinely inspired... The superiority of the Babylonian Talmud is so great, that when people now talk about the Talmud, they always mean the Babylonian Talmud. The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive." R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, Torah to Kabbalah, New York, Oxford University, Press, 1982, pg. 40.

Which explains the strong reaction to defend it.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

And after the baptist member clarifies, can the catholics just go on stating the same errant information without any ability of the baptists to continue to clarify their OWN religion? All in the name of having a safe haven? Sounds to me like in that case, the catholics would be baiting the baptists, trying to get them upset enough to reply and then be sanctioned. Playing a control game. Huh. Hm. Yep. And YK I have a valid question, so let's see a staff member weigh in on it.

Unfortunately my understanding is that is indeed the case. A Baptist could not further clarify his position on the Catholic forum. At some point this becomes debate/teaching and goes beyond the spectrum of a fellowship post.

And no, the situation you describe would not be baiting on the Catholic forum, where Baptists generally don't spend a lot of time. It certainly would be in the Baptist forum however. This forum (MJ) is unique in that Rabbinic Jews and Messianic Jews and gentiles all spend time here, but in fact only Messianic posters are members.

I can ask Trishri1 to verify this information.

 

[muffler dragon]

there are a couple options for you:

1) Ask a Noachide.
2) The only website that I recommend is www.asknoah.org.

Noachidism is NOT a world wide political, religious force attempting to take over the world in mental and spiritual enforcement. The Seven Laws of Noach are boundaries for conduct in how you conduct yourself with G-d, your fellow human beings, and the world around you. I, as a Noachide, don't take these any further than outside of my personal circle of influence.

Most of the time, the angst that Noahides show is a retributional element from feeling that they had been deceived at some point in the past. This is why those fringe sites are rubbish.

Therefore, IF anything else is asked; then seek me out first. I'll answer.

 

[ShirChadash]

Unfortunately my understanding is that is indeed the case. A Baptist could not further clarify his position on the Catholic forum. At some point this becomes debate/teaching and goes beyond the spectrum of a fellowship post.

And no, the situation you describe would not be baiting on the Catholic forum, where Baptists generally don't spend a lot of time. It certainly would be in the Baptist forum however. This forum (MJ) is unique in that Rabbinic Jews and Messianic Jews and gentiles all spend time here, but in fact only Messianic posters are members.

I can ask Trishri1 to verify this information.

Spending a lot of time on a forum really has nothing to do with it.

Hypothetical situation, but it has happened in the past just not with adventists here, as I recall:

If, say, the adventists started a thread in their forum about what judaizers messianics are, and gave all sorts of fringe sites, even hateful spiteful sites, and information from material on those sites to support their claims that messianics are judaizers, and someone from this forum catches wind of it, comes in a politely sets out the facts that the very vast majority of messianics do not believe in following the "Law" as a way to gain "salvation" nor do they promote that one must follow the "Law" in order to be in right relationship with G-d... and the members ignored the truth presented... the messianic states that there is absolutely no genuine, valid argument to be found on the pages of, say, the "Ask god" site about messianicism etc (okay, whatever/whichever) and the members ignore but just continue to carry on with their flaming of messianics... you can be that messianic would (and people have, in fact) come here to post and point out to everyone that this is going on. And you can bet that others would go over to post as well. AND you can be that they would be being quite incited by the forum members over "there" who continue to libel the messianics. AND as I recall on the old CF it likely would have been removed, a thread like that, because it is doing nothing but discussing a non-relevant to the forum religion in a derogatory manner where people of the religion can not reasonably and fairly answer for their own religion.

And the fact is, this thread was already turned invisible and for some ungodly reason returned to this forum -- a forum which has not one thing to do with Noachidism. This thread is nothing but a flame-fest by messianics, and it's truly disgusting you all have obviously found little ways to justify its existence (or it wouldn't be here, now would it).

So a noachide comes in at this late stage of the game to clarify the lies that have been presented -- and posts entirely reasonably, on-topic and not flaming of messianics in any way. And he is stirring the pot/arguing and causing issue? Or I post nothing more than to clarify my previous statement and address a *personal* mischaracterization, and I am posting to argue? Unbelievable. Which of my recent posts, or which of MD's, flames chri*ians? Which of them deride messianicism? Which of them argue MESSIANIC BELIEFS for that matter!? The THREAD IS NOT EVEN ABOUT messianic beliefs, hello?

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

I was responding to your question about the scenario given as an example. I'm not implying anything about this thread or any post on this thread.

I don't doubt there have been post wars between forums in the past, before my time. What I can tell you is my experience and my understanding of the rules. In the situation you describe above I believe the MJs would be in violation if they debated in the SA forum, but that's without knowing all the details, actual content of the threads in question, the SA forum's FSGs, etc, etc.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Greetings. I do have a question concerning the type of foods Noahides are allowed to eat according to the OT/OC of the Bible.

From what I can discern from Paul in Romans, that all food is good to eat EXCEPT for those who deem it unclean, for them it is unclean and we are not to judge others by what they eat but how they serve and obey YHWH. Paul may be referring back to Gene 9:33 after the Flood. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Genesis 9:33 Every of moving-thing which he life, to ye he is becoming for food as greens herbage I give to ye all.

Romans 14:14 I have known and am persuaded in Lord Jesus that nothing unclean thru himself, except to the one accounting any being-unclean/koinon <2839> to be, to that one being-unclean/koinon <2839>. [Genesis 9:33]

Romans 14:20 No account of food be throwing down! the work of the God. All indeed pure/kaqara <2513>; but evil to the man the one thru stumbling eating.