How does this add up to your doctrine?

[Unreformedbythetruth]

No, It is believing in God and His message that God loved the world.
They simple asked Jesus what is the work of God that they should do, and Jesus simple aswered the work of God is to believe in the one He sent. It is still the work that was given to them to do from God.

Maybe it is you who missunderstand the scripture remember.

Just because I do not see it they way you do, does not mean that I am wrong.

Lets talk this out like gentelmen, not like brood of vipers please. There is no reason to call my understanding ignorance. It might be you who is wrong.


What you can say about me, can also be said about.

Mathew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Before the cross, God made a lot to happen to bring Christ. Loved this person hated others. Used Pharoah and what ever you may say. O.k. In order to make the path that Christ was comming down.The world had no way before Jesus, but to believe in the one promised to come who will crush the serpents head, and It will strike the one's comming heel.

After the cross He opened the door for the world.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Let me see you want to also to change that scripture to fit your doctrine.

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

The only way that man can save themselves is to never of sinned, but all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

The result of sin is death, so it not the work that we have done that saved us, but the work God did on the cross through Jesus Christ that saved us.

To believe and trust Jesus, is believing in His work for our salvation, not our's.

He believed God and it was credit to Him as righteousness

 

[seekingpurity047]

No, It is believing in God and His message that God loved the world.
They simple asked Jesus what is the work of God that they should do, and Jesus simple aswered the work of God is to believe in the one He sent. It is still the work that was given to them to do from God.

Maybe it is you who missunderstand the scripture remember.

Just because I do not see it they way you do, does not mean that I am wrong.

Lets talk this out like gentelmen, not like brood of vipers please. There is no reason to call my understanding ignorance. It might be you who is wrong.


What you can say about me, can also be said about.

Mathew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Before the cross, God made a lot to happen to bring Christ. Loved this person hated others. Used Pharoah and what ever you may say. O.k. In order to make the path that Christ was comming down.The world had no way before Jesus, but to believe in the one promised to come who will crush the serpents head, and It will strike the one's comming heel.

After the cross He opened the door for the world.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Let me see you want to also to change that scripture to fit your doctrine.

John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Use context.

Second of all: You said that faith is a work, then you said that faith is not a work. You confirm that we have to do a work in order to be saved. That work being coming to faith. Impossible, for man cannot do anything good, and for this, you cannot deny scripture.

Psalm 14:1-3

1 The fool [a] says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.



2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

Is there any man who does good? Well... according to David, totally inspired by the Holy Spirit, man can't do anything good. There is no work that man can do that is good. Hence, if faith is good, man cannot do it by his own power. Want more scripture toi back it up? Ok!

Psalm 53:1-3

1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
there is no one who does good.


2 God looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God. 3 Everyone has turned away,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

This is so crucial that David ended up writing two psalms about it. Wow... shocking! More? Ok.

Romans 3:9-18

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better[b]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

Well... if man is totally depraved, how does one come to believe? O man! That God may present His irresistable grace upon thee!

Romans 3:22-26

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

There is only one category of believers in Jesus' eyes, and that being His sheep. For whom did Jesus die for?

John 10:11

11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

Jesus laid down His life for a specific group of people, notably, His sheep. His flock. Believers to come.

John 10:14-16

14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Jesus died for the flock. His sheep. Who are His sheep? Those whom the Father predestined to be sheep.

Romans 8:28-30

28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:3-10

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us[b] for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Don't forget v 11-14

11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e] to the praise of his glory.

Romans 1:7

7To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:


Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.



God calls some to be saints... interesting....



And I can go on and on and on.... There is just sooo much. I just don't have time right now... back to working on an essay.



Later gator,

Randy

 

[Seaioth]

Someone needs to read up on unconditional election... =p I can't even follow the argument from here... this is like a soccer team playing against a basketball team >_<

 

[seekingpurity047]

To add to my response:

Romans 9:14-18

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[a] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[b] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Randy

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

I praise God for the scripture you gave to let us know our God and the love He has shown to the world through Jesus Christ.

Not one of us is righteous, no one had seeked after God and we are good for nothing, that is the flesh

So what did God do He seeked us through His Son Jesus Christ, and made us the messengers of it.

Jesus came into His own and His own accepted Him not. They were His sheep, but they did not accept Him.

So what did Jesus say He would do. If you deny me on earth, I will deny you in heaven. Jesus did exactly what He said He would do, He denied His sheep, because they denied Him.

Believing is a responsibility of man, but it is what Jesus Christ did on the cross that saved them. It is pretty simple to me. All praise, glory, boosting goes to Jesus, because it was His work that saved us.

I believe in all the scripture of the predestined elect. I have no problem with that, but He also included with them those who heard the Gospel of there savation having believed were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

The world has a hope through Jesus Christ, even if you don't believe it.

1 Timothy 2

1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

[frumanchu]

Romans 11:17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Doesn't it show that even the elect of God can be cut out for unbelief!!!

Actually, it shows a continuity between the covenants of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. God has one people for all time. Those who place themselves in covenant with Him but do not possess faith will be cut off.

 

[reformedfan]

Either Christ's blood actually saves, or Christ's blood + my good works (acceptance of the gift) does the trick. Either we are saved by Grace, through faith: (which is a gift from God) or we are actually ultimately saved by some conscious act that we do (receive Christ, accept the gift)

you sound familiar, so does yer familiar username...

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

The warning of work is the work of the law, not what Jesus gives, which we draw near to God.

That is the new hope.

Paul was not teaching against what Jesus taught that we must believe.

See after people believed, they were leading men back to the Law which braught death.

Obeying the Law was only work for salvation, but all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

So it is a gift of God for salvation, because we didn't have to pay our debt, but to believe in the one who did. If you pay your debt then you can say you worked for your salvation, So the only hope you have is Jesus. a free gift, any gift free or not, you have to accept. You didn't make the gift, so you didn't work for your salvation.

You are confusing belief with the work of the Law.

Paul audience in His letters was believers, so he didn't have to tell them to believe, they already did.

Our belief comes from God through the scripture.

So what we believe is given to us by God, but it is our choice to believe in it or not.

 

[GLJCA]

Actually, it shows a continuity between the covenants of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. God has one people for all time. Those who place themselves in covenant with Him but do not possess faith will be cut off.

Awesome answer!!

 

[GLJCA]

The warning of work is the work of the law, not what Jesus gives, which we draw near to God.

Unreformed,

I don't want to offend you or anything like that but I have to ask, is English your first language? I have been noticing your sentence structure and conjugation of verbs and it seems that maybe you are just having a hard time putting your thoughts into words in English. I lived 13 years in another country so I know what it is like trying to put thoughts together in a second language.

GLJCA

 

[hlaltimus]

One must distinguish between God's eternal elect people and his national elect people, the Jews. The Lord chose and called this national elect people out of the loins of Abraham to be a nation, out of which nation some proved to be his eternal elect and some didn't. The case of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 aught to prove this beyond dispute. Both of those men were still Jewish descendants and as such received the privilege of at least exposure to the revelation of the Word of God and then other associate privileges. However Paul, (then Saul,) confessed that he had all of that in his testimony in Philippians 3 and was never-the-less without a relationship to the Messiah. Being a member of the national elect people of the Jews imparted privileges in time, while being a member of God's eternal elect imparts privileges both in time and in eternity.