How does one define a call to the Ministry, I'm confused...

[Studeclunker]

Some of the answers given on this forum are not what could be called clear. How can a man know what a 'call' is? You know, that just may be the crux of my confusion; how is a 'call' defined. I've always been very comfortable discussing the Bible, theology, doctrine, and explaining these things to other people. I have never been comfortable in an authoritarian position. I guess it's personal insecruities. Still, what would I be expecting? I mean, it's not going to be like the Bill Crosby skit on Noah;
"Noah!" A loud voice calls out of the darkness whilst Noah works in his shop. Noah stops working and looks around. He sees no one and goes back to work.
"Noah!" the voice calls out again.
"Who's there?" asks Noah tremulously.
"It's God Noah!" the Lord answers.
"Riiiiight," returns a skeptical Noah.

Should I hear voices in the ether, I would probably think myself insane. I've no doubt the admissions people at Ft. Wayne would feel the same way.

So the question remains; what is a call? Who issues this call? How does one know that this call is legitimate?
Let's face it, going back to school and entering into the service of the church is a big decision.
What are the criterion that the intervewiers at Ft. Wayne and the St. Louis campus use to determine the fitness of a candidate for the ministry?

 

[LilLamb219]

I bet Da Rev, Filo, and Luther will give you better explanation, but God works through means and with the call, He uses the congregation to "call" a pastor.

 

[dinkime]

before there is ever a call to a congregation (post graduation from sem) i think people truly feel a "call" to work in the world of ministry...the true call is not a congregation, it is God working in their heart/mind/soul/life

 

[DaRev]

Some of the answers given on this forum are not what could be called clear. How can a man know what a 'call' is? You know, that just may be the crux of my confusion; how is a 'call' defined. I've always been very comfortable discussing the Bible, theology, doctrine, and explaining these things to other people. I have never been comfortable in an authoritarian position. I guess it's personal insecruities. Still, what would I be expecting? I mean, it's not going to be like the Bill Crosby skit on Noah;
"Noah!" A loud voice calls out of the darkness whilst Noah works in his shop. Noah stops working and looks around. He sees no one and goes back to work.
"Noah!" the voice calls out again.
"Who's there?" asks Noah tremulously.
"It's God Noah!" the Lord answers.
"Riiiiight," returns a skeptical Noah.

Should I hear voices in the ether, I would probably think myself insane. I've no doubt the admissions people at Ft. Wayne would feel the same way.

So the question remains; what is a call? Who issues this call? How does one know that this call is legitimate?
Let's face it, going back to school and entering into the service of the church is a big decision.
What are the criterion that the intervewiers at Ft. Wayne and the St. Louis campus use to determine the fitness of a candidate for the ministry?

Read this post:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=33156011#post33156011

 

[Studeclunker]

Thank you Revrand. I had originally posted my question in the same thread. It was thoroughly off-topic (I thought) so I did a little cut and paste and opened this thread. I didn't think it was very polite to Jim to hijack his thread.

So, if an individual is asked by a congregation then suddenly they are a pastor? Yikes! One would hope this doesn't happen often. Sorry, but I'm of a slightly suspicious nature. I like the mainline denominations because they have a central authority overseeing the pastor. There are just too many going off into la-la land anymore. Whitness the ELCA congregation that has been discussed in our main forum. These women have been leading that congregation for over thirty years without originally being ordained. Now, they are leading them entirely out of the christian relm. Yet ELCA does nothing. So, that central authority seems a false security. If the reports are true, it seems that LCMS is heading in the same direction; atomization of our core principles.

But here I am off topic in my own thread. Sorry. It's the ramblings of... never mind.

If you don't mind, Revrand, I'm going to do a little more cut and paste and copy your answer over into this thread.

 

[Studeclunker]

A congregation has the right and ability to call anyone it wants to be their pastor, whether synodically trained or not. But if they do not call one from the LCMS roster they are then (or are supposed to be) removed from the Synod.

There are only two types of members in the LCMS. Commissioned ministers, who must be deemed qualified by the synod to be included in their membership; and congregations, who are held (supposedly) to the constitution and bylaws of the synod (membership in the synod is voluntary, BTW, but if they wish to be members they need to submit to the constitution and bylaws of synod, which included calling pastors who are members of synod).

As far as the Call, a man may feel an inner call to the ministry, or he may be encouraged by others. In either case, this is believed to be the way that God moves a man into the pastorate. There is then a process, even before one goes to seminary, to determine his ability and qualification for the office. The seminary then trains the man (also called 'formation') to be a pastor. There is a process involved in this as well. It is not merely an academic process. One can indeed complete the requirements for the MDiv degree, and yet NOT be certified for ordination and a call.

In the LCMS, once a man has completed the program of study and formation, and has been deemed fit and qualified to be a shepherd of a flock and thus receives his certification, his name is then presented to the placement committee of the synod, which involves both seminaries and the Council of Presidents. Congregations can request to call a seminary candidate, and the men are then placed in these calling congregations by the placement committee. If a student does not fulfill the requirements, or does not receive his certification, he does not receive a call.

Just because someone "feels" like he wants to be a pastor is not an automatic acceptance into the seminary. And even if he does go to seminary, it is not an automatic certification for ordination and a call. And even if he is certified for ordination, there is no guarantee of a call.

The bottom line is that this process is done through much prayerful consideration for the will of God to be done. It is God who calls us, through the various means.

Thank you Revrand. my question still remains, though.

 

[Studeclunker]

There is then a process, even before one goes to seminary, to determine his ability and qualification for the office.

Yes, and this process is....

There is a process involved in this as well. It is not merely an academic process.

The bottom line is that this process is done through much prayerful consideration for the will of God to be done. It is God who calls us, through the various means.

Forgive me for bull-dogging this Revrand. You have given the same vague answer I have always heard. Ok, how does one know this 'call'? A congregation calling an, one would hope very exceptional, individual is a clear and recognizable situation. God however, does not often work so obviously. This is one reason that Bill Cosby's skit is so funny.
So, what is the process? Does one write to the seminary? If so, to whom?

 

[DaRev]

So, if an individual is asked by a congregation then suddenly they are a pastor? Yikes!

The biblical polity of the Church is a ministerium, from the bottom up. The congregation has the ability to call whom it pleases to be their shpeherd. If they feel they want to call someone from their own midst, whether or not they have been formed and deemed qualified, they can do so. And yes it is a scary thought, but it doesn't normally occur in the LCMS.

I once had a conversation with a gentleman in St. Louis who told me that he was a pastor of a church in St. Charles, MO. He then told me he had no formal training. I thought to myself "How in God's good creation can this individual possibly teach and preach and lead a people without proper formation?" Yes, it is scary!

 

[Studeclunker]

How did you know that you were being called, Revrand, Jim, Luther, whomever is available?

 

[porterross]

I once had a conversation with a gentleman in St. Louis who told me that he was a pastor of a church in St. Charles, MO. He then told me he had no formal training. I thought to myself "How in God's good creation can this individual possibly teach and preach and lead a people without proper formation?" Yes, it is scary!

Because people want to hear "good news" and not the law. Being Lutheran requires a great deal of personal work, mental focus and self analysis, ya know.

 

[DaRev]

How did you know that you were being called, Revrand, Jim, Luther, whomever is available?

The more I looked into it, the more it seemed right. Once I got into the seminary I could look back at my life and see where the Lord had been prompting me; an interest is certain aspects of the ministry, a comment from one person or another, an increasing desire to be involved in various functions and aspects of the church. It's a bit different for everyone.

The "process" that I have been referring to is a bit involved. It includes a consultation(s) with your pastor, there is an interview with representatives of the district to determine whether or not you may be a fit candidate for seminary, there are tests and so-forth to determine if you are able and prepared to undergo graduate study, there is a series of meetings and interviews and sessions with various people at the seminary to determine fitness for the ministry, there are practical applications that are done and monitored (including field work while at sem and the vicarage year) that are taken into consideration. All this is in addition to the academic requirements.

Not everyone who senses the "call" makes it to seminary. There are many who get to seminary but do not complete it. In my class in 2000, there were 141 of us in the MDiv program. Two years later, there were 101 of us that received vicarage calls. Two years after that there were (I believe) 93 of us who graduated, received the MDiv and were certified (deemed fit and qualified) for a call and ordination. So you see, nearly one third of those who actually made it to the seminary never finished for one reason or another. It is a thorough and quite involved process. In fact, there were numerous times when I was not sure if I would make it. But the Lord knows better than I.

Is it 100% fool-proof? No. There are a few who make it through who probably should not have. But I believe it is the best there is from a man-made church organization.

 

[Studeclunker]

Yes, Porteross, Dr. Rosenbladt used to say that balanced Law and Gospel were the cornerstone of Lutheran preaching.

I'm afraid that my lack of education is still the impediment. I don't even have an AA completed. Thanks for your response Revrand. I really appreciate your candor.

 

[DaRev]

Yes, Porteross, Dr. Rosenbladt used to say that balanced Law and Gospel were the cornerstone of Lutheran preaching.

I'm afraid that my lack of education is still the impediment. I don't even have an AA completed. Thanks for your response Revrand. I really appreciate your candor.

When I first looked into the seminary all I had was an AAS. I entered into a degree completion program in a local college and was able to get my BS (no comments from the peanut gallery!) degree in 18 months. I then enrolled into the MDiv program in St. Louis.
(There's a good story about how that all came about that I'll share with you sometime. It's a bit lengthy and its late right now, but remind me and I'l tell you )