What makes one writer a story teller and another a writer of Cannon....Does Ellen White reach the same level as Cannon or is her writings for a different purpose.....How can it be decided that one is inspired, is there any criteria?
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How does one decide what is inspired?
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Okay, I can't find it. I'll write a shorter version now,
THE BIBLES TEST OF INSPIRATIN:
Test One: Isaiah 8:20
They must agree with the Bible. they must try to live by the Bible, uphold the Bible and promote the Bible to other people.
Test Two: 1 John 4:2
They must also, obey, uphold and exalt Jesus as Lord. They must share Him, preach of Jesus
Test Three: Matthew 7:20
No person is perfect, but they must be bice, kind loving and caring. By their "fruits" you know them.
Test Four: Jeremiah 28:9
The most logical, if the spoken or written word comes to pass exactly, then we know they are from God..
HOPE IT HELPS!!
THE BIBLES TEST OF INSPIRATIN:
Test One: Isaiah 8:20
They must agree with the Bible. they must try to live by the Bible, uphold the Bible and promote the Bible to other people.
Test Two: 1 John 4:2
They must also, obey, uphold and exalt Jesus as Lord. They must share Him, preach of Jesus
Test Three: Matthew 7:20
No person is perfect, but they must be bice, kind loving and caring. By their "fruits" you know them.
Test Four: Jeremiah 28:9
The most logical, if the spoken or written word comes to pass exactly, then we know they are from God..
HOPE IT HELPS!!
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RC_NewProtestants
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That verse says nothing about the Bible, which is a good thing because there are places where the certain books of the Bible disagrees with other books of the Bible. The classic example is where David numbers Israel and one version says God caused him to count and another satan. Then it goes on and gives different numbers.
The message here is not to consult the mediums and necromancers, follow the instruction of the torah ( Lev 19:31; 20:6-7; Deut 18:9-14) which forbid those activities and seek your answers from God.
There is a concept that we see in the New Testament where for instance Paul says don't follow another gospel even if an angel delivers it.
So clearly we have to test people's claims but what we do know, that is what has been revealed by Christ. But that is going to require using our God given minds.
The adult lesson study guide for this past week on Wed May 16, page 60, did an excellent job of showing just how you don't find the answers to life's questions in some thus saith the Lord fashion in the Bible. Answers are based upon multiple examples and information that has to be interpreted and correlated. And as we well know there may be multiple answers to a life situation all based upon using the same Bible.
The cannon was accepted by a very large consensus of Christians, with argument over only a few books. This is not the case with Ellen White.
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RC_NewProtestants
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There was no "Bible" at that time. Much of what has become the Bible had not even been written.
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What is that supposed to mean? It dosn't matter if there was no Bible in that time, because
1-The bible prophecies for us today.
2-They at least has Moses law books, which is what is referred to. Ohhh my gosh, they are in the Bible.
1-The bible prophecies for us today.
2-They at least has Moses law books, which is what is referred to. Ohhh my gosh, they are in the Bible.
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RC_NewProtestants
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I am a member of the SDA church, a life long member. Why are you arguing, You said in point 2
I in my original said the reference was to the torah, that is the books of Moses. It is not a reference to things still unwritten. Kind of stupid thing to say if the writer of Isaiah was pointing to things unwritten as a guide to seeking knowledge from God rather then through the dead.
I don't use the SDA logo because in general at least on this forum it is hampered with the narrow views of traditional SDA's, I am a progressive SDA and reject many of the things traditional SDA's accept. I would rather not be labeled as SDA as long as there are so many SDA's who I see as sorely in need of reformation. You should understand it, EGW said she did not call herself a prophet because of the disrepute of many so called prophets. Likewise I don't like to be labeled as simply SDA because of the disrepute of so many SDA's bring to the Christian community.
Dr. Graham Maxwell had a good statement. If someone would ask him if he was an Adventist he would say "well what do you think an Adventist is and I will tell you if I am one or not."
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I've been looking at Ellen Whites writings for a little less then a year now.
Other then the church saying she is a prophet you don't get much information on her writings.
Even asking around don't get you to far.
After doing some searching myself I came across this....
dlearn.wwc.edu/classes/relh457/articles/bc1919/part2.html
This article above makes it so much clearer on so many things.
This should be one of the first things we are given when asking about her writings. Why we have to go dig for this stuff I'm not sure. After reading this I don't agree with many of the quotes I see go by in Revelation Series on the churches/seals/trumpets using Ellen Whites writings to back up historical positions.
Other then the church saying she is a prophet you don't get much information on her writings.
Even asking around don't get you to far.
After doing some searching myself I came across this....
dlearn.wwc.edu/classes/relh457/articles/bc1919/part2.html
This article above makes it so much clearer on so many things.
This should be one of the first things we are given when asking about her writings. Why we have to go dig for this stuff I'm not sure. After reading this I don't agree with many of the quotes I see go by in Revelation Series on the churches/seals/trumpets using Ellen Whites writings to back up historical positions.
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You came across Thompson's materials. He has a book out entitled "Inspiration" which goes into some depth on such issues.
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The NT canon was determined long before the KJV was authorized (and the OT canon long before that). Here are a couple of links to articles on the formation of the NT canon, which describe some of the criteria used in the early church:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/bruce1.html (an excerpt from a book by F. F. Bruce)
http://www.pastornet.net.au/rtc/canon.htm
If you are interested in reading more, there are a whole bunch of links here:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/links04.html
Here is a quote from the Bruce article:
The only books about which there was any substantial doubt after the middle of the second century were some of those which come at the end of our New Testament. Origen (185-254) mentions the four Gospels, the Acts, the thirteen Paulines, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelation as acknowledged by all; he says that Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, James and Jude, with the 'Epistle of Barnabas,' the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, and the 'Gospel according to the Hebrews,' were disputed by some. Eusebius (c. 265-340) mentions as generally acknowledged all the books of our New Testament except James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, which were disputed by some, but recognised by the majority. Athanasius in 367 lays down the twenty-seven books of our New Testament as alone canonical; shortly afterwards Jerome and Augustine followed his example in the West. The process farther east took a little longer; it was not until c. 508 that 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude and Revelation were included in a version of the Syriac Bible in addition to the other twenty two books.
For various reasons it was necessary for the Church to know exactly what books were divinely authoritative. The Gospels, recording 'all that Jesus began both to do and to teach,' could not be regarded as one whit lower in authority than the Old Testament books. And the teaching of the apostles in the Acts and Epistles was regarded as vested with His authority. It was natural, then, to accord to the apostolic writings of the new covenant the same degree of homage as was already paid to the prophetic writings of the old. Thus Justin Martyr, about AD 150, classes the 'Memoirs of the Apostles' along with the writings of the prophets, saving that both were read in meetings of Christians (Apol i. 67). For the Church did not, in spite of the breach with Judaism, repudiate the authority of the Old Testament; but, following the example of Christ and His apostles, received it as the Word of God. Indeed, so much did they make the Septuagint their own that, although it was originally a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek for Greek-speaking Jews before the time of Christ, the Jews left the Septuagint to the Christians, and a fresh Greek version of the Old Testament was made for Greek speaking Jews.
It was specially important to determine which books might be used for the establishment of Christian doctrine, and which might most confidently be appealed to in disputes with heretics. In particular, when Marcion drew up his canon about AD 140, it was necessary for the orthodox churches to know exactly what the true canon was, and this helped to speed up a process which had already begun. It is wrong, however, to talk or write as if the Church first began to draw up a canon after Marcion had published his.
Other circumstances which demanded clear definition of those books which possessed divine authority were the necessity of deciding which books should be read in church services (though certain books might be suitable for this purpose which could not be used to settle doctrinal questions), and the necessity of knowing which books might and might not be handed over on demand to the imperial police in times of persecution without incurring the guilt of sacrilege.
One thing must be emphatically stated. The New Testament books did not become authoritative for the Church because they were formally included in a canonical list; on the contrary, the Church included them in her canon because she already regarded them as divinely inspired, recognising their innate worth and general apostolic authority, direct or indirect. The first ecclesiastical councils to classify the canonical books were both held in North Africa — at Hippo Regius in 393 and at Carthage in 397 — but what these councils did was not to impose something new upon the Christian communities but to codify what was already the general practice of those communities.
For various reasons it was necessary for the Church to know exactly what books were divinely authoritative. The Gospels, recording 'all that Jesus began both to do and to teach,' could not be regarded as one whit lower in authority than the Old Testament books. And the teaching of the apostles in the Acts and Epistles was regarded as vested with His authority. It was natural, then, to accord to the apostolic writings of the new covenant the same degree of homage as was already paid to the prophetic writings of the old. Thus Justin Martyr, about AD 150, classes the 'Memoirs of the Apostles' along with the writings of the prophets, saving that both were read in meetings of Christians (Apol i. 67). For the Church did not, in spite of the breach with Judaism, repudiate the authority of the Old Testament; but, following the example of Christ and His apostles, received it as the Word of God. Indeed, so much did they make the Septuagint their own that, although it was originally a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek for Greek-speaking Jews before the time of Christ, the Jews left the Septuagint to the Christians, and a fresh Greek version of the Old Testament was made for Greek speaking Jews.
It was specially important to determine which books might be used for the establishment of Christian doctrine, and which might most confidently be appealed to in disputes with heretics. In particular, when Marcion drew up his canon about AD 140, it was necessary for the orthodox churches to know exactly what the true canon was, and this helped to speed up a process which had already begun. It is wrong, however, to talk or write as if the Church first began to draw up a canon after Marcion had published his.
Other circumstances which demanded clear definition of those books which possessed divine authority were the necessity of deciding which books should be read in church services (though certain books might be suitable for this purpose which could not be used to settle doctrinal questions), and the necessity of knowing which books might and might not be handed over on demand to the imperial police in times of persecution without incurring the guilt of sacrilege.
One thing must be emphatically stated. The New Testament books did not become authoritative for the Church because they were formally included in a canonical list; on the contrary, the Church included them in her canon because she already regarded them as divinely inspired, recognising their innate worth and general apostolic authority, direct or indirect. The first ecclesiastical councils to classify the canonical books were both held in North Africa — at Hippo Regius in 393 and at Carthage in 397 — but what these councils did was not to impose something new upon the Christian communities but to codify what was already the general practice of those communities.
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