How does one deal with angry Protestants?

[Sothron]

My friends,

I am discovering how difficult it can be to live as an Orthodox here in the South of the United States. I realize this is nowhere near true persecution so please understand I am not making that reference.

However, I have discovered just how angrily some Protestants are about our faith and our beliefs. I am a former Methodist and my friends , coworkers and family all know that. There are some of them that felt "betrayed" at my conversion. I wish I could say some of them were not my immediate family but that would not be true.

My mother especially is against what my wife and I are doing. She considers us to be no better than Catholics and she flat-out refuses to believe Catholics are truly Christians. Please note that is not United Methodist teaching and I am not intending this as a "slam" against that denomination.

However, the ongoing antagonism I am facing is strengthening my faith but it also has left me questioning how best to deal with this. I have tried to respond with patience and love but it only seems to make matters worse with some of the people I know.

The hardest problem for me is with my parents. I hesitate to mention this again but I was abused as a child and while living with my parents. Perhaps the height of the shame I felt is when they threw me out of their house while I was in college. I had done nothing wrong but they thought otherwise. They also informed my former church of how just "sinful" I was being and essentionally poisoned the church and the pastor against me.

It took me years to recover from that shame and from the barrier I felt existed between God and I. I am now experiencing Christ in a powerful way that leaves me hungry for more. I can't tell you how much I truly love my Inquirer Class to learn more about the faith. And yet when I speak to my family about this there is this feeling of familial shame at what I am doing.

Has anyone else experienced this and how did they overcome it? I realize some of you may not understand how steeped the Deep South is in community and family and Protestant churches and the very real sense of deep shame if you do something that is frowned upon. I have been in churches where someone committed a sin that became public knowledge and gossip and hard feelings ruined those people at that church. I should I know...it happened to me.

I realize I may need to contact Fr. Peter or Fr. Cyprian over this but I am hoping some of you may have experience something similiar and can help me overcome my lingering feelings of shame and how to be a proper witness to the angry Protestants around me who sincerely believe I am not only a heretic but a complete apostate. I know the truth of the matter but is there any way to convince them?

 

[eoe]

Rejoice and be exceedingly glad.....

I was and well.. kinda still am in the exact same boat with my parents. Where are you? - southeast and Fr. Peter sound familliar....

Eventually they are going to realize that it is not a phase and will adjust. You need to let your light shine my friend - brighter than ever. Don't argue with them - just shine.

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

My friends,

I am discovering how difficult it can be to live as an Orthodox here in the South of the United States. I realize this is nowhere near true persecution so please understand I am not making that reference.

However, I have discovered just how angrily some Protestants are about our faith and our beliefs. I am a former Methodist and my friends , coworkers and family all know that. There are some of them that felt "betrayed" at my conversion. I wish I could say some of them were not my immediate family but that would not be true.

My mother especially is against what my wife and I are doing. She considers us to be no better than Catholics and she flat-out refuses to believe Catholics are truly Christians. Please note that is not United Methodist teaching and I am not intending this as a "slam" against that denomination.

However, the ongoing antagonism I am facing is strengthening my faith but it also has left me questioning how best to deal with this. I have tried to respond with patience and love but it only seems to make matters worse with some of the people I know.

The hardest problem for me is with my parents. I hesitate to mention this again but I was abused as a child and while living with my parents. Perhaps the height of the shame I felt is when they threw me out of their house while I was in college. I had done nothing wrong but they thought otherwise. They also informed my former church of how just "sinful" I was being and essentionally poisoned the church and the pastor against me.

It took me years to recover from that shame and from the barrier I felt existed between God and I. I am now experiencing Christ in a powerful way that leaves me hungry for more. I can't tell you how much I truly love my Inquirer Class to learn more about the faith. And yet when I speak to my family about this there is this feeling of familial shame at what I am doing.

Has anyone else experienced this and how did they overcome it? I realize some of you may not understand how steeped the Deep South is in community and family and Protestant churches and the very real sense of deep shame if you do something that is frowned upon. I have been in churches where someone committed a sin that became public knowledge and gossip and hard feelings ruined those people at that church. I should I know...it happened to me.

I realize I may need to contact Fr. Peter or Fr. Cyprian over this but I am hoping some of you may have experience something similiar and can help me overcome my lingering feelings of shame and how to be a proper witness to the angry Protestants around me who sincerely believe I am not only a heretic but a complete apostate. I know the truth of the matter but is there any way to convince them?

How old are you and your wife, and how financially dependent are you on your parents? I.e., to what extent do your parents still view you (and your wife) as "children" and as persons they still have a right or ability to "control"? How do your wife's parents and family regard your conversion?

(As a Protestant-moving-towards-Orthodoxy, I find it somewhat amusing/ironic when "Bible Protestants" whose churches aren't apostolic and creedal use words like "heretic" and "apostasy.")

I am certainly not characterizing your parents as such - I don't even know them - but PEOPLE OF THE LIE by M. Scott Peck discusses people who are evil (in a dispassionate sense) and oblivious to the nature of their actions and attitudes.

 

[Kristos]

Sothron, Sorry to hear of you troubles. I wish I had some words of wisdom that might help. The best I can do is say that you are not alone, and you need to standfast in your love towards them without comprimising your faith. It might be good to take a "break" from some people. Focus yourself on God, and as we enter the Lenten season, renew your efforts of pray and fasting. As you mentioned, this would be good to discuss with your priest and/or your spiritual father.

In Christ.

 

[Sothron]

How old are you and your wife, and how financially dependent are you on your parents? I.e., to what extent do your parents still view you (and your wife) as "children" and as persons they still have a right or ability to "control"? How do your wife's parents and family regard your conversion?

I am thirty and my wife is thirty two. I have been "on my own" since the day I was told I was no longer welcome to live with them and was forced to go stay with my girlfriend (and future wife) while still a full time college student. It was obviously several years ago that took place but it has been an open wound that never really healed.

I spoke with DanVa about this earlier in pms about their abuse to me as a child and until the day they threw me out of the house. That action and the turning of my church against me was the most shameful time in my entire life and to be honest it was years and years until I felt I could "trust" God enough to attend church.

My parents and family and (most of) my friends are die hard ultraconservative Protestant Republicans and view any Catholic or Orthodox faith as heretical or apostatic. I know this is not true (obviously) but I am hoping some of you may have similiar experiences and found a way to open their minds and hearts.

I have prayed and tried and the only one who has accepted it is my father who has felt lingering shame over my childhood abuse but has never apologized for it. But he at least knows that Orthodox (and Catholics) are Christians and he's happy I am at least back in church. Of course he will never accept the fact the reason why I stopped attending church was due to his actions but that is another story.

If this seems too personal for some of you to comment or share with then I do apologize. Our mission parish is exactly that and we only get a father to come down once every two months or so and they live too far away to sit down and speak with. I hope some of you have pearls of wisdom you don't mind sharing.

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

Jesus said something about shaking the dust off your feet, and Paul did the same thing when the Jews rejected the Gospel. Jesus also said to let the dead bury the dead, and to come follow Him.

It sounds like you have made efforts to reach them, which they rebuff and denigrate due to suppressed shame of what they did to you (to accept you means to accept responsibility for what they did) and defensiveness and anger about the rightness of their own religious beliefs which prevents them from acknowledging that others may be right and they may be wrong, or even listening with an open mind to other positions (whether religious or political). Like stiff trees, they cannot bend, or they will break. Some people create a black-and-white, us-versus-them world as a defense mechanism. We all do so to some extent, but for some people, their survival/preservation of their ego requires it.

Also, do not discount the way the devil has affected them and caused them to act and react. There may be an element of the demonic here that needs to be prayed against, that his control of their minds and lives would be released and that God could penetrate their minds and hearts with His love, if they repent.

I wish you had the ability to attend church more frequently, for that would help. In the interim, prayer for them and for yourselves may be the best course of action, and keep away from them as much as you are able, and NEVER let religion or your personal lives be brought up in conversation. If they do it, politely tell them that if they do not respect you and your beliefs but can only speak negatively about them, then you are not open to discussing it with them, and ask them to respect your wishes to keep that topic off limits. If they won't, then get in your car and leave. Do that once or twice and they'll get the message. Respect yourself, or they never will. Jesus took your shame.

You never said anything about your wife's parents/family. Maybe you can find fellowship and family there.

Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with this. However, I am the only Christian in my Jewish family, and they've regarded me as a bit crazy ever since I converted 29 years ago. We don't talk about religion (or politics - they're diehard liberal atheist/agnostic Democrats).

Take what you will of my thoughts, and discard/ignore what doesn't fit.

 

[Sothron]

My wife's family lives in Jacksonville, Fla. and my wife and I live in Columbus, Ga. They are supportive of what we are doing.

We do have a service every Sunday at our mission. One of our members was just recently tonsured as a Reader and he does (IMO) a wonderful job at organizing our mission and in his Reading. We just don't have an actual church (we meet at the hospital chapel at a local hospital) and no regular father. I wish we did and pray we will.

Perhaps you are right about avoiding them for now. Give them a chance to adjust to the change and to (hopefully) drown them in enough prayers to soften their hearts.

 

[eoe]

My parents and family and (most of) my friends are die hard ultraconservative Protestant Republicans and view any Catholic or Orthodox faith as heretical or apostatic. I know this is not true (obviously) but I am hoping some of you may have similiar experiences and found a way to open their minds and hearts.

There is good news and there is bad news. The good news is you are about to find out who your true friends are. The bad news is you are probably going to have to make some new friends.

I suppose I was a bit lucky in that most of my friends are not church based.. that is.. they don't care if I am protestant or anything else. My family was where I have the most problems and the bad part of that is.. while I can make more friends - I am stuck with my family.

( I remember where you are now too....)

Try if at all possible to see things from their point of view - you are making a big change and effectively rejecting a whole lot of what they hold to be true. They are confused and hurt by this.

That is not to say that you are wrong for doing it - once you find the truth you have to grab on. You have no other option - at least that is how I felt...

Eventually they, like your father, will see that this is not something worth ending relationships over and they will accept it. They might never like it (my sister....) but they will have to accept it.

A few things to think about...
Try your hardest not to scandalize your family anymore than you have to - especially with things like fasting or incense etc... If they want to feed you steak with cream sauce in the middle of lent - Eat it and thank God for it.
Try not to give them ammo (Mary, Saints, etc. stuff they misunderstand). Don't jump on them with theology.
Generally try not to do anything at all that is going to give them a negative view of Orthodoxy.

Above all - they have to see that this is changing you for the better.

Remember:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

and:

49 ¶I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

This is real Christinaity and unfortunately there are some very difficult parts that we have to deal with.

 

[lsg03]

How does one deal with angry Protestants..... Pray, pray, pray, and somtimes biting your tongue to the point it's nearly severed. LOL! Just kidding on that last part.

I know exactly what you mean as far as living in the South. We live in MS and my parents are die hard Baptists. My in laws are "nominal Baptists". I completely agree with KATHXOYMENOC's post. That's how my husband and I deal with it. Unless they ask us about Orthodoxy, we don't speak of it. We only give an answer if we know they are genuinely curious. If it seems they are looking for a way to slander Orthodoxy or be negative, we change the subject. Praying that God would penetrate their hearts with the Truth would be a good thing to do. I don't pray that enough! Don't lose hope. I'll keep your family in my prayers.


In Christ,
Shea


P.S. Eoe, great post!

 

[cobweb]

I'm only an inquirer, but folks know that I am going to an Orthodox Church. There are far, far fewer negative comments than when I was an atheist.

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

I'm only an inquirer, but folks know that I am going to an Orthodox Church. There are far, far fewer negative comments than when I was an atheist.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Sothron,

if either of the Priests who come to your mission are available through email, it might be good to try to talk to one of them.

This is a very tough situation you are in, and a very tough abusive past to deal with. I think it would be most necessary to speak with a Priest about this.

My feeble prayers for you.



Mary

 

[Sothron]

I'm only an inquirer, but folks know that I am going to an Orthodox Church. There are far, far fewer negative comments than when I was an atheist.

Praise God that you are searching for Him!

You have my prayers.

 

[Orthocat]

"Holy rollers to the left of me
Fundamentalists to the right

Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you"



I too am considered an abnormity in my family. And they too consider the Orthodox as them "Cathlics". Ignorance is no excuse however.

Show them the truth through your words, actions and humility.

 

[Knowledge3]

I am the only one in my whole family converting to EO.

I won't even attend a protestant church because I have been on gradual 2 deconversion from protestantism, halfway to Catholicism and
4-5 years of personal conversion to Orthodoxy.

It was only a few months ago when Father Anthony pronounced me Cathecumen of the Orthodox Church because I explained to him how much study and inquiry I had actually done.

Sothron, so I am converting with you in the same boat as a friend.

 

[Khaleas]

"Holy rollers to the left of me
Fundamentalists to the right

Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you"

The pre-festival baking group at our church is called Holy Rollers! We even have tshirts.

 

[seashale76]

It's taken my family a while to come around. My dad doesn't get it but he's just glad we're in church. My in-laws think we're weird and don't agree with the theology, but as their other children are atheists and agnostics, they've just accepted our conversion (but that hasn't stopped them from questioning our judgement).

My mother really had some serious issues when my husband and I converted. She'd ask tons of questions about Orthodoxy and then not like the answers. She told me we were in a cult. She'd try to get me to read whatever new Evangelical book she was into. She came to our chrismation and was very unhappy. Then she told me that I went to church too much and tried to invite me to do things with her on days and times she knew I'd be in church. However, she and my dad did come to Divine Liturgy for Nativity and she left with a much more positive view. I've heard nothing negative from her since.

My sister and my husband's twin brother and his wife think we're nuts. My bil has made snide comments to my husband and my sister (who is non-religious) brings up Orthodoxy out of the blue to argue about how much she disagrees with it.

Now, for the five or so years when my husband and I didn't go anywhere for church and even went so far as to even give reasons why we thought church was a waste of time, we got no flack. We'd get people agreeing with our reasoning and even joking with us that we attended Bedside Baptist. Go figure.

 

[Alfred M]

I know what you are going through! My family not so much , but my wife's family have referred to our prayer corner in the past as our 'Buddhist shrine". The best I can tell you is to rejoice in the freedom that you have found and let only others build walls...but the Pearl does have a price...and It is worth every penny.

Alfred M, chief of all sinners

 

[Dust and Ashes]

My wife got this email from her mother shortly after we decided to become Orthodox.

Dear Brenda,
I am writing you in regards to the decision you have or are about to make. I am telling you this from my heart and how I feel. I do not know a tackful way to go about this so guess I'll just let it rip.
I am deeply disappointed & hope you haven't already made up your mind to join this church. Yes I do understand this of going with your husband and supporting him- but you do not have to join.
If thats the way he feels - I hate it for him but you've just begun a fine line journey that you will fight tooth and nail to get out of - if you ever changed your mind. I am 100% sure this "Orthodox Christian Church " is another title for the Catholic religion which is a cult. That is works of the devil.
Oh how-Yea you can come visit us 2 times a month - Brad says- but you can hardly make it 1 time a month. GET REAL ! I can see thru this - I'm not stupid. But you won't need to bother.
You still owe me the paymts for the debts you owe, and cuts all ties to everything.
Some one is brain washing you totally & I can't support a decision of this nature. I've tried to be open to all the past demonations you've been a part of- but this one is different and not one I can or will support.
Believe me I went where my husband wanted to in support - but would not have choosen Corinth Heights the second time around. I was deeply disappointed he wanted to or would even think about going there again. So I do understand that !!
I hope you understand Once you join this church you are ALWAYS a part of it and all your children will automatically be members there too, and you will not get out of it without a legal action nearly.
I will have to disown you but you can no longer be a part of our family once you go thur with this. With tears running down my checks you will not never know how badly this hurts me as I write this. I cannot comdone this decision. If this is to late --- all I can say is "GOOD-BYE AND HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY." Because now we will never be a FAMILY & that is so painfull. I realize Brad never had FAMILY but why is he against ours? Think TWICE PLEASE I BEG OF YOU. It will even be hard to think of Brad as a son in law again.
This is not a guilt trip and if you think it is - go ahead and see for your self. I really regret you not telling me this sooner and you probably think I should have said more on Wednesday but I wanted to be sure I knew this was a Catholic demonation as I thought it was, before spilling my guts. When you showed me the crosses, and all the chattering you will be doing , kneeling, and the sister's thing, the picture of the bldg , I was almost 100% sure, but didn't want to add stress to your life. I am speaking out now because the stress is on me. I don't know if I can bear this cross of looseing you. With sleepless night I got up and began writing how I can tell you and I just hope its not too late. This is not my decision but yours ..... I'm so sorry.

She has come a long way since then, though. My advice to you would be to just be Orthodox and let Orthodoxy mold and change you and let that be the testimony of Orthodoxy's power and beauty. Let them see the fruit in your life and it will have an impact.

The changes I've gone through since becoming Orthodox have had a great impact on my inlaws' opinion of Orthodoxy. I used to be very cold to them and made very little effort to hide that I didn't enjoy their company. Now, I just try to love them the best I can and show them that I love them. I'll answer questions when they arise but don't try push Orthodoxy on them at all.

I will definitely keep you guys in my prayers.

 

[Oblio]

Oh, I remember that letter fs, how are things going in that respect lately.