how does non-carnal sexuality look like?

[lutherangerman]

Ok, I don't know much about this subject.

It is plain in scripture that the christian is not supposed to give in to his flesh. He shall follow the Spirit. But I believe it does not mean that sexuality is something bad. In a godly marriage, how does sexuality look like? Is it a temporal giving in to the flesh, or is it also transformed in something spiritual as something that gives life and peace? What is non-carnal sexuality like?

I ask because I don't understand this very well. I regard myself as a rather sincere christian who does not live in the flesh too much. And I don't always know, when is a sexual impulse something fleshly that I must fight, and when is it something that can be acknowledged.

Basically, since my baptism in 2008 I find that my sexuality is more controllable than before. For example, I was able to shake masturbation nearly completely (except for occasional wet dreams). Sometimes I do find myself slipping into inapprobriate thoughts, but it's not too hard to avoid them usually and to get out of them again if they hit me. All in all, sexuality is not the most important part of life for me anymore. But I don't know, maybe that's just a product of getting older. I am 32 years old now. When I was still an atheist I masturbated almost every day and looked a lot at pornography. Recently I thought I should see if it still interests me and I went to some porn sites. But I didn't find what I saw very appealing. I did feel a sexual impulse when I saw nice body parts, but I was able to rely on my new spiritual identity as a child of God and it didn't bother me anymore. But again, I don't know if that's maybe just the result of not having masturbated or watched any porn for 3 years, that I just shook a habit.

My mother who is a sincere christian also says that when you become a christian you don't become asexual. And divorce rates and even many forum posts here suggest that sexuality can still be a difficult field to traverse for christians too.

I suppose there is a healthy sexuality to be found, and that is my goal for now. But I am unsure as to what it looks like. For example, I might choose and remain a single celibate for the rest of my life. In that context, what would it mean to feel sexually attracted to someone I meet? Is that the flesh coming up or does non-carnal sexuality also make itself known like that on certain occasions? Jesus said we shall not look at women lustfully. I always felt this is about a kind of horny staring at a woman's parts, like when someone unclothes someone else in his mind and and excites himself with pornographic imaginations. I feel this must be different from simply finding yourself attracted to someone sexually which I surmise is a normal occurence and doesn't indicate fleshliness.

What do you think?

 

[jason taylor]

I will start by mentioning that I am not an experienced adviser on the subject and my advice should be taken as tip from a fellow student, as it were, not as a teacher.

Several possible guidelines. Does it follow God's rules? And do you want to engage in it "with" your spouse, or "to" her. The last part I found irritating at first until I remembered that it is a matter of loyalty and when put that way it is easier to understand. I have female friends and co-workers and I would not consider "looking on them lustfully" appropriate, not because they are not attractive, but because they are my friends and that makes them "different". Well of course, friends are different, but not that different; every one you look at is somebodies loved one. That is a hard principle to obey but one can understand it put like that. I must note that it is not a claim to immunity from temptation; it is a claim to understanding what it is.

To give another way to think of that, I have, I will confess, looked at a woman lustfully on the internet recently(she is well known enough that I won't mention her name lest you do as well), and I don't excuse myself for it. She was quite, well, "stimulating". But the thought did not leave me of "That poor woman." Which doesn't make me a saint, but it does at least mean my health, though it could be better, could be worse.

To put it another way woman is also a great creation and if one thinks of her in a caddish way, it can be compared to getting smashed on fine wine, or thinking of a beautiful mountain merely as a mineral source, or something like that.

Another thing to mark that it is unclean is whether or not you desire it to be so. I am, by God's grace, "inexperienced" as such things are reckoned today, but I can tell that on many occasions "this is sinful" is presented as a turn on. A sign of a corrupted desire is that it doesn't just say "rats, this is sinful, but I am going to do it because I really, really, want to." Corruption says "this is sinful and therefore it is really really cool."

Now this teaching sometimes bothered me. It made me imagine waiting outside my hypothetical future wife's door and saying, "just a second dear, I have to make sure I'm not objectifying you." That is, I think a legalistic thought. What it really means is that you should think of sex as something you share, not something you get.

Another thing to remember is that while our attention is focused on not giving in to our
sexual desires, quite commonly it is our duty to encourage them-when we are giving righteous love to our spouses according to the commands of the Lord. This sounds like a quirky thought. However there are stories of people who have left their spouses, sworn celibacy, and taken up religious orders while their spouses were still alive. It is known in other religions besides Christianity. I think that a sign of hypocrisy and self-righteousness; a show of piety does not amend being twice-sworn.

Now look what the Bible says about it, in Song of Songs. Now King Solomon infamously did not live up to the ideal taught but that is not really the point. Nor is it the point that some see allegorical meaning to it as Biblical passages can be both literal and allegorical. The Song does not give "less" in it's descriptions(hardly that), it gives more. Not only does it describe the deed in a mundane matter, it describes it in a poetic and aesthetic fashion but most important, it describes it as an act of love. That does not mean "we love each other" is an excuse for sin; or for that matter that children of arranged marriages in time gone by, who met their spouse on the wedding day were sinning. It means, that is the ideal we should strive after. Nor does "love" necessarily mean "ecstasy"; that is neither hear nor there though it is all very well in it's place. It does indicate how we should be. We should mean what we say when we say "for better or for worse." And this promise is surprisingly often kept. There are plenty of stories of people who have behaved in an awe-inspiring way for the sake of loved ones. For instance, there was one German husband who refused to divorce his Jewish wife and sheltered her all the way through the war and died protecting her when the Russians arrived. That is a sad story but is also a great story.

This is just a glimpse of what your goal might be. Like I said, I claim no great wisdom, or righteousness. Only that I am a fellow believer and can give some counsel which might be worth listening to if only to hear an opinion.