How does Mary protect us?

[Not David]

Howdy! I would be interested in your opinions.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Howdy! I would be interested in your opinions.

She was an ordinary human being like all the rest of us. She lived and died as a converted Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. She is one of multitudes in Paradise awaiting the second coming of Christ. She is not a god whom we can pray to.

Mary is respected as the biological mother of Jesus, and that is all. To worship her as a god is idolatry, and it comes from pagan influences that invaded the church after the Fourth Century through the leadership of Constantine who was a nominal Christian but still worshiped pagan gods.

 

[Not David]

She was an ordinary human being like all the rest of us. She lived and died as a converted Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. She is one of multitudes in Paradise awaiting the second coming of Christ. She is not a god whom we can pray to.

Mary is respected as the biological mother of Jesus, and that is all. To worship her as a god is idolatry, and it comes from pagan influences that invaded the church after the Fourth Century through the leadership of Constantine who was a nominal Christian but still worshiped pagan gods.

"She was an ordinary human being like all the rest of us. She lived and died as a converted Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. She is one of multitudes in Paradise awaiting the second coming of Christ. She is not a god"

I agree with you in that, the rest is just wrong.

According to you, where did the "pagan" influence come from and why do you insult a Saint like Constantine?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"She was an ordinary human being like all the rest of us. She lived and died as a converted Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. She is one of multitudes in Paradise awaiting the second coming of Christ. She is not a god"

I agree with you in that, the rest is just wrong.

According to you, where did the "pagan" influence come from and why do you insult a Saint like Constantine?

It is a historical fact that Constantine adopted Christianity after a supposed vision in the middle of a battle where He saw the cross, and as a result he won the battle. But it is also a historical fact that he continued to worship pagan gods, and he introduced those pagan ideas into the church when he took leadership of the Eastern church in Constantinople and left his representative in charge of the Western church. There was a pagan goddess called "The Queen of Heaven" and this influenced the veneration of Mary as "the Queen of Heaven" to receive prayers and supplications as a god.

Constantine is an example of a "nominal" Christian who adopted the Christian religion, but never forsook the pagan world. He was two-faced, just like many religious hypocrites in our day who have the full appearance of being truly Christian but their hearts are still unchanged and still in this world.

 

[Not David]

It is a historical fact that Constantine adopted Christianity after a supposed vision in the middle of a battle where He saw the cross, and as a result he won the battle. But it is also a historical fact that he continued to worship pagan gods, and he introduced those pagan ideas into the church when he took leadership of the Eastern church in Constantinople and left his representative in charge of the Western church. There was a pagan goddess called "The Queen of Heaven" and this influenced the veneration of Mary as "the Queen of Heaven" to receive prayers and supplications as a god.

Constantine is an example of a "nominal" Christian who adopted the Christian religion, but never forsook the pagan world. He was two-faced, just like many religious hypocrites in our day who have the full appearance of being truly Christian but their hearts are still unchanged and still in this world.

I'm sure the Queen of Heaven you mention is probably the one mentioned in Jeremiah, right?

I'm sure Romans didn't care as much of Egyptians deities, and there is also the fact a lot of pagan religions refer to characters as "sons of God", yet you don't think St. Constantine copied that, right?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm sure the Queen of Heaven you mention is probably the one mentioned in Jeremiah, right?

I'm sure Romans didn't care as much of Egyptians deities, and there is also the fact a lot of pagan religions refer to characters as "sons of God", yet you don't think St. Constantine copied that, right?

I'm only going on what church history states.

 

[prodromos]

I'm only going on what church history states.

That isn't church history. That is the heavily biased view that certain anti-catholics present as 'history'

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That isn't church history. That is the heavily biased view that certain anti-catholics present as 'history'

I don't believe that Constantine was a genuinely converted Christian. He was a politician and his decisions were politically, not Christian-based.

I understand that church historians inject their theological views into their history, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Charismatic. This is why a good student of church history should read the history from all these viewpoints and come to their own conclusions. Also, church history should be compared to histories written by secular historians, although when the church was politically and religiously dominant throughout the world until the Reformation, there were no secular historians.

To get the best and most possible accurate account of Constantine one would have to consult the Roman historians of the time. They probably would not be influenced by Christian theology, and because there was no Roman Catholic church at the time, they could not have been anti-Catholic - although they could have been anti-Christian, being pagan Romans.

 

[prodromos]

Which historians have you consulted?
This is entirely off topic so I don't require you to answer, I just believe you would benefit from examining whether you are considering ancient sources or just someone else's heavily redacted views on the same.
What you claimed earlier:

"it is also a historical fact that he continued to worship pagan gods, and he introduced those pagan ideas into the church when he took leadership of the Eastern church in Constantinople and left his representative in charge of the Western church."​

is wholly unsupported by history. The pagan Romans had no "Queen of Heaven", nor was Mary ever referred to as such over that period of time, and Constantine was never the leader of the Church. Yes, he organised the 1st Ecumenical council and provided the means for hundreds of bishops from all over the world to travel and stay in Nicaea, but he had zero influence on the organisation structure of the Church (those bishops did not suddenly appear out of nowhere) or the theological decisions of the council. If anything, Constantine leaned towards Arianism, but he abided by the decisions of the council and wholly supported the transmission of those decisions throughout the empire.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Howdy! I would be interested in your opinions.

She prays for us, intercedes for us, and through her, God grants us the graces to follow Christ. In this way, she protects us from evil, sin, ourselves, and the dangers of this life, if we ask her.

 

[anna ~ grace]

The earliest recorded prayer to Mary;

Sub tuum praesidium - Wikipedia

Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Theotokos :
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.

 

[Knee V]

Howdy! I would be interested in your opinions.

As with all the Saints, it is through her prayers.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How does Mary protect us?

She doesn't. The Roman Catholic "Mary" doesn't exist. Only the TRUE Mary, Mother of Jesus as presented in the Bible is REAL.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

n/p

 

[Not David]

She doesn't. The Roman Catholic "Mary" doesn't exist. Only the TRUE Mary, Mother of Jesus as presented in the Bible is REAL.

Not everyone here is Roman Catholic.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not everyone here is Roman Catholic.

But the fact remains that the REAL Mary, Mother of Jesus, is not involved in "Our protection".

JESUS is our Advocate, and our Savior, and Mary is simply "another Christian", just like my mother, and every other Born Again Christian.

 

[Not David]

But the fact remains that the REAL Mary, Mother of Jesus, is not involved in "Our protection".

JESUS is our Advocate, and our Savior, and Mary is simply "another Christian", just like my mother, and every other Born Again Christian.

Yes, all of them protect us too.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Yes, all of them protect us too.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

And, of course, "Official Catholic History" isn't Biased at all (chuckle).

 

[Not David]

And, of course, "Official Catholic History" isn't Biased at all (chuckle).

Again. No everyone here is Catholic.