How does it feel?

Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK · Oct 30, 2005

Bonhoffer said:
Taribo West(Plymouth Argile; ex-Derby country and former Nigerian international)
Stuart Elliot (Hull City FC striker and Northern Ireland international)
Gavin Peacock (former Chelsea, Charlton, QPR and Newcastle player. He now commentates)
Tim Howard (former Man Utd keeper and a US international)
Marvin Andrews (Rangers defender. He seeks faith healing whenever he gets injured.)

Also Ceril Regis the former West Brom star and now a coach!

In addition to Bonhoffer's list:

Jason Roberts (Wigan Athletic)
Darren Moore (West Brom)
Linvoy Primus (Portsmouth)
Jay-Jay Okocha (Bolton Wanderers)
Kevin Street (now retired, ex-Crewe, Bristol Rovers and Shrewsbury) - see http://www.givemefootball.com/display.cfm?article=6975&type=1

Richard Rufus (Charlton Athletic)
Shola Ameobi (Newcastle)
There must be others but those are the ones that I know of.

Martin^^ · Oct 30, 2005

Is there any truth in the rumor that several Man U players were seen praying on their way back to face Alex Ferguson at the end of yesterday's game?

Buttermilk · Oct 30, 2005

Martin^^ said:
Is there any truth in the rumor that several Man U players were seen praying on their way back to face Alex Ferguson at the end of yesterday's game?

Buttermilk · Oct 30, 2005

Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK said:
There must be others but those are the ones that I know of.

There are other Scottish ones, but I can't think who off the top of my head

AllTalkNoAction · Oct 30, 2005

Martin^^ said:
Is there any truth in the rumor that several Man U players were seen praying on their way back to face Alex Ferguson at the end of yesterday's game?

I'd like to see a video of that meeting !

What's wrong with Rio Ferdinand ? no hunger ?

steverock · Oct 30, 2005

Martin^^ said:
Is there any truth in the rumor that several Man U players were seen praying on their way back to face Alex Ferguson at the end of yesterday's game?

id laugh but its still to painful to talk about !

just need to rectify a fact:
Tim Howard is still a United goalkeeper just not the number 1 choice anymore.

ill add aswell:
Gabriel Heinze is a christian. after recieving his season ruining injury he gave an interview where he said that God would bring good out of the injury because he has taken worse tackles and not got injured in the same way before so this injury was to happen to a reason. i thought it was pretty cool he was so open about that.

Jer · Oct 30, 2005

ScottishJohn said:
lol when I was wee it was Brian Irvine (Aberdeen) who was our Christian football idol!

He went to Deeside Christian Fellowship. They used to play our church at football every year. The guy who owned Cordiners Garages went to Deeside so they used to turn up with a professional on the team and sponsored strips, and our church fielded a 50 + average age team playing in cut off denims! Funny thing was we always wiped the park with them!

Where about are you in Scotland? I'm in Aberdeen and have been to Deeside a few times although it's too far away for me to go to regularly.

stranger said:
Each could judge for themselves whether they really have ALL truth of God and so know if they were baptised with the spirit or not ... and I only observe that all the people I talk to about it ADMIT THEMSELVES that they do not have ALL truth of God and know of no-one that does apart from Jesus and perhaps the saints...

Even Jesus does not have all knowledge of the Father. Have a look where He says He doesn't know when he will return, only the Father does. And if Jesus doesn't then we won't. Check Matthew 24:36

[BIBLE]36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.[/BIBLE]

stranger said:
Thus the judgment is not mine, I judge no-one , but the judgment is just and by people of themselves... but most do NOT realise the IMPLICATION ... that the scripture states in Jesus' own mouth that not having all truth of God indicates that one has not the baptism of the spirit that Jesus and the saints recieved ... again the statement is from Jesus , not by my judgment , I do no wrong by observing that almost all people I know of admit that they do not have ALL truth of God and repeating Jesus' statement about what that means ...

stranger said:
Thus you are misled, I choose to obey Jesus and NOT judge people and one CAN live that way although it requires restraint ... why would Jesus say to not judge if we could not do it?

We are told not to lie, not to commit adultary, not to kill and other similar things. Yet Jesus said in Matthew 5:

[BIBLE]27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.[/BIBLE]

So we have commited sins such as those we are told not to. So if Jesus tells us not to judge it doesn't mean we will not do it. And I know with discipline you can stop a lot of it, but I know people with loads of discipline that have failed sometimes.

stranger said:
I am no saint, not least because I have not all truh of god, but you are very mistaken on this point, possibly even trying to justify that you judge people , and that is a mistake that Jesus explained

I'm not, I know I am a sinner. I have done so many wrong things in my life, and even if it was only one thing then I would be as guilty as I am now. So no matter what I say, it doesn't make it right.

stranger said:
No it doesn't, there are saints, many of the disciples of Jesus for instance , some received the baptism of the spirit at the first Feast of weeks after Jesus' death for instance ... and Jesus lists the 144,000 saints from all time ... on average then but about 2000 alive at any one time on the earth , scattered amongst all nations ...

As shown above, I disagree with the statement that saints are people who know God's perfect Truth. But just wondering, where did the figure of 2000 come from?

stranger said:
Clearly only the saints have all truth to witness, and Jesus and Paul only sent out the saints to do so, so why should sinners want to witness when they do not have all truth [and do not know whom they would be sent to either ... Jesus and Pauls ent their disciples to the house of Israel , why do sinners then go witness whatever they witness that is incomplete and comes at least partly from men , not God , to just anyone? It doesn't make any sense if they were trying to do what Jesus told his saints to do, cearly no-one without spirit baptism could...

stranger said:
Thus one comes to a very different conclusion about what is being done by christian missionaries and evangelists and so forth

Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Most people who go out to 'witness' that I know of simply do not even know what the HOUSE of ISRAEL is !!!

So you would disagree with people who call themselves christians but view themselves as not having all of God's truth going out into the world to teach to people?

stranger said:
You forgot many things in what you call 'logic', the price of sin is paid in the wages of sin, death, but there is also the matter of how much deep woe men feel and the sense of having lost everything for sake of nothing ,when God confronts them with their real sins in life, all of them... it is so terrible a truth about ourselves , for God knows even the sin we will not admit to ourselves, that we cannot bear to hear it ... so much so that if god broke out on a man with His truth that it would kill most men [as happened in the OT] ...thus through jesus there is a better way for sinners, death and resurrection to a new life in the righteous new earth , all truth given in baptism of the spirit of all men, an oportunity to be righteous saints for all , a trial of that , and judgment of one's success at the end in the great judgment day of God...redemption for countless many [Rev 7:9-10] where this earth yielded but the few who go by the narrow way [Rev 7:3-8]

stranger said:
There is also the terrible day of the Lord after Jesus returns, a time when very many sinners see the cobnsequence of their sins come to fruition in the destruction of what we vainly call our 'way of life' [that is but a way of death!] ,that is indeed something terrible to men and due mot least to our habitual institutionalised sin that men just ignore because we are so familar with it ... most men do not even realise that the basis of our money system, compound interest, is a sin to God, it takes from the poor to give to the rich , continually .. it is not a fair balance and makes all men do in buying and selling evil simply because it is not fair and is taking from the poor instead of giving to the poor..

thus there is far more than one's salvation to consider in life and sin...

But if we are in heaven and going on the view that we will suffer no pain or anything like it says in Revelation then it won't matter what we've done now, it will only be a short time we feel so bad for. So it still means that we can do whatever we want and we will still be forgiven.

[BIBLE]1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Romans 13[/BIBLE]

stranger said:
The authorities , despite their corruption as sinners and service to Satan are just as integral to God's purpose, plan, will as any other sinners, it is not for the saints to disrupt God's plan ... that does not mena however that authorities are not judged for their sin , nor goes it mean that they are just [as for instance, it was authorities that unjustly crucified Jesus, but it had to happen and Jesus submitted himself to the false authority and injustice of sinful men who put on the false hats of human authotrity above that of God ...

A short study of human justice readily revelas that it does not work very well, it does not rehabilitate criminal very effectively at all and rather corrupts people further whilst they are confibed with mostly only other criminals for company... also we know that the judgments are demonstrably false sometimes , the law is blind and does not even make every effort to justice ...
thus judges are indeed subject to judgement and will be faced with their sin and with the fact that they chose to judge men against the law of love that says they cannot do so until they are perfect and know all truth...

If you read the passage God says that they are allowed to judge people. It does not say it will be perfect all the time, but that He has put them there to judge people. And what you are saying is that they can't, which is a complete contradiction.

stranger said:
Thus God forbears sinful man in this earth FOR sake of HIS purpose and plan, that includes putting up with the disastrous judgments of sinful men and the decision of men to judge others in institutions... it does NOT mean that the saints should not submit themselves to unjust judgments, any more than Jesus did not submit himself to false judgment by sinners ...

The reason given in scripture is that to suffer injustice willingly for ultimate sake of others is a NECESSARY part of the perfection of the saints ...

ScottishJohn · Oct 31, 2005

Jer said:
Where about are you in Scotland? I'm in Aberdeen and have been to Deeside a few times although it's too far away for me to go to regularly.

I'm in Glasgow now! Lived in Stonehaven for 17 years, my sister still lives up there - and goes to Deeside now and again, the people she babysits for are members there. In fact, one day she was there at Christmas she was playing around with some of the kids, and one of them started to fall off a chair, so she lunged forwards to catch them, and in doing so really punched someone hard in the stomach! She turned to apologise and then realised it was Cameron from Big Brother, down in Aberdeen for the panto season!

theFijian · Oct 31, 2005

Buttermilk said:
There are other Scottish ones, but I can't think who off the top of my head

Derek Adams (Aberdeen)
Jamie Smith (also Aberdeen, in fact I play 5s with his brothers-in-law and Jamie came along once, the night before he played in Henrik Larsson's testimonial! He definately deserves a Scotland call up too)

theFijian · Oct 31, 2005

ScottishJohn said:
She turned to apologise and then realised it was Cameron from Big Brother, down in Aberdeen for the panto season!

A friend of a friend of mine at university is from Orkney and she knew Cameron. In fact I vaguely remember us having arm-wrestling competitions in their student flat and Cameron was there, I don't remember if I won or not.

Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK · Oct 31, 2005

When Streety played for Crewe some fans used to sing "Kevin Street, my lord, Kevin Street..." :o I expect he found that quite embarrassing!

Seems like Aberdeen are hogging a lot of the Christian players. We need them more, we are more secular than Scotland

Jer · Nov 1, 2005

I know another person who might start playing for Aberdeen soon who's a christian. He's one of my good friends from uni (Adrian) and a fantastic football player. He played in the top division in Zimbabwe and has been told to go for a place by the Aberdeen scout person. So that's pretty cool,

ScottishJohn said:
I'm in Glasgow now! Lived in Stonehaven for 17 years, my sister still lives up there - and goes to Deeside now and again, the people she babysits for are members there. In fact, one day she was there at Christmas she was playing around with some of the kids, and one of them started to fall off a chair, so she lunged forwards to catch them, and in doing so really punched someone hard in the stomach! She turned to apologise and then realised it was Cameron from Big Brother, down in Aberdeen for the panto season!

Oops,

I know a few people that sometimes go to Deeside, Anna, Kimberly Rebecca and a few others. Probably you wonldn't know them though... I help at a youth event that uses leaders from IBC and Deeside.

ScottishJohn · Nov 1, 2005

Jer said:
Oops,

I know a few people that sometimes go to Deeside, Anna, Kimberly Rebecca and a few others. Probably you wonldn't know them though... I help at a youth event that uses leaders from IBC and Deeside.

I haven't been since I was at School so no I have no idea I'm afraid! My sister is called Katie, and she babysits for the Cordiners. She's not there all the time, just when she's been staying over!

Jer · Nov 1, 2005

I don't know her, Still, it was worth a try!

Buttermilk · Nov 1, 2005

Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK said:
Seems like Aberdeen are hogging a lot of the Christian players.

Well they do need all the help they can get

Jer · Nov 1, 2005

At the moment that is true, but just you wait and we'll come back and win the title this season, and then the Champions League next year, or maybe the year after if we have a bad game in the final.

Bonhoffer · Nov 11, 2005

Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK said:
In addition to Bonhoffer's list:

Jason Roberts (Wigan Athletic)
Darren Moore (West Brom)
Linvoy Primus (Portsmouth)
Jay-Jay Okocha (Bolton Wanderers)
Kevin Street (now retired, ex-Crewe, Bristol Rovers and Shrewsbury) - see http://www.givemefootball.com/display.cfm?article=6975&type=1

Richard Rufus (Charlton Athletic)
Shola Ameobi (Newcastle)
There must be others but those are the ones that I know of.

I know another one for sure. Clarke Carslye of Watford FC.
I was talking to his mum yesterday who has just opened up a new Christian bookshop in Leyland. Apprantenly he had first accepted Christ at the age of 15, but a year later when his football career began at Blackpool he became emersed in the 'footballers lifestyle'. He then joined QPR and Leeds United. All this time he rejected God and pleased himself. But then last summer just before Watford bought him he realised the mistake that he had made and so committed his life back to the Lord. Once Watford had signed him he moved to the area and started going to the famous Soul Survivor Church there.
His spiritual life has since come on leaps and bounds which has been reflected in his career. Watford have suprised everybody with their early season form and the fact that are currently in a playoff position. Clarke is reputably having the best form of his life. Clarkes mum believes that Watfords success is all down to God honouring Clarkes return to him. She personally believes that Watford will get promoted because of all this.

Shetlander · Nov 14, 2005

What is a Christian country? Does America really exhibit the "best" of Christian values?
Are the american christians hearers or "doers" of the word?

ChasingADream · Nov 16, 2005

I have been reading through all of this thread for a few days now and I do find the majority of the posts quite interesting. I was wondering what all of your opinions on Canada are with respect to this topic of religion. (American, European and all other opinions are welcome )

Thanks

Martin^^ · Nov 16, 2005

Shetlander said:
What is a Christian country?

I wonder how far it is possible to assign Christian values and conduct to the behaviour of nations?

Some examples (not specifically about the US):

Charity. International aid seems to be a fair example of the rich giving to their poorer neighbours. However, when it is viewed in the light of the total relationship of the developing and developed nations it seems like a way of salving our conscience about how it has mainly been deeply exploitative and one-sided.
Forgiveness. Turning the other cheek is not typical of international politics. The USA has been particularly ruthless in its treatment of its enemies in the postwar years. While the war against the USSR remained 'cold', many weaker countries have felt the full might of US military force: Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind.
Humility. Not too many nations are humble. Even the smallest nations have leaders who like to parade what arms and armies they have. Many poor nations build ostentatious monuments and public buildings while their people suffer in poverty.
Treating your neighbour as yourself. Most nations go to great lengths to keep their neighbours out. Especially if they are poor. The whole debate about refugees/asylum seekers is based on a premise of being choosy about who deserves to be allowed to cross our borders.
Morality. One website I visited gave this list:Jesus gave a list of actions that constitute immoral uses of the body: evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, arrogance and foolishness. Reads like a CIA handbook (except for the foolishness). Not to single out the US though - most developed nations have similar espionage agencies.

Maybe somebody can think of a nation which scores a few positive points, but I cannot think of any which conduct themselves by Christian principles to any significant extent. Maybe a nation which did could not survive.

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