How does He do it: A 'Face the Board' For Your Beliefs

[SithDoughnut]

I'm sorry if this comes across as too close to apologetics; this is best place I can find to put this seeing as I'm not allowed to post on the forums where this might be more appropriate. It will be exploring Christianity, after all, so I think it's safe here.

I'm not looking for a debate or for persuasion to become Christian. I'm less interested in Christianity and more about Christians - more importantly, what you all actually believe, and how far you've looked into the questions surrounding them. I've done this with my Christian friends and a local church and I've come up with all sorts of weird and wonderful answers.

I'll point out that I'm not trying to break your beliefs (I did this on another board and all I got were defensive replies and accusations rather than actual answers) or try and put subversive atheist thoughts into your minds. I actually found that the Christians I 'interrogated' (as they chose to call it - not in a negative way of course ) found out that they believed many things they did not know they did, and for practically all of them this did nothing but strengthen their beliefs, now strong in the knowledge that they'd chosen (or been forced to, depending on how you look at it) to properly think about it.

(Important Note: If you're not up for some pretty intensive questioning, then this might not be for you )

I know some of this may cover other threads - it depends on where it goes. If you've answered a question somewhere else and don't feel like answering it again, feel free to tell me where you answered it and I'll go find it myself.

OK, we'll start with a big overall question and I'll hope that this doesn't completely fail like the last time I tried:

What is God?

 

[ephraimanesti]

OK, we'll start with a big overall question and I'll hope that this doesn't completely fail like the last time I tried:

What is God?

At the most basic level, He is the Source of all that exists and of all the Power that governs it that keeps it in existence.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[SithDoughnut]

At the most basic level, He is the Source of all that exists and of all the Power that governs it that keeps it in existence.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Is there a less basic level? Is God included in 'all that exists', therefore being the source of himself, or is he seperate?

EDIT: It's 2:36AM here... I think bedtime might be in order, but I'll be back here tomorrow with a few million questions or so

 

[AV1611VET]

What is God?

The Biblical answer to this question is: "God is."

That's it --- period --- God is.

No predicate noun or nominative.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That's the Biblical answer --- now the scientific answer.

God is made up of what has conveniently become to be known as unobtanium; or Element 404 on the Periodic Table.

 

[drich0150]

What is God?

God described himself as I am, the alpha and the omega, The beginning and end.

Is there a less basic level?

of what? to what end?

Is God included in 'all that exists', therefore being the source of himself, or is he seperate?

to answer a question that has not been answered in scripture about God either places the person giving the answer at the right hand of God or places "God" in the realm of that persons mind.

So either we can relay what has been written or we can guess/relay who God is to us. Any explanation we personally give of God, places that aspect being described in a finite realm, which takes away from His infinite nature. Which again places any answer given (Outside of scripture) well with in the realm of speculation.

 

[Willtor]

What is God?

That's a hard question. The best I can hazard, when the question is "what," is that God is the Thing that makes everything that is not It.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Is there a less basic level?

If there is, God has not chosen to reveal it to us yet. Personally, i would say "no."

Is God included in 'all that exists', therefore being the source of himself, or is he seperate

The Creator is always separate from that which He creates. We, as His children, can become one with His Powers through our Lord Jesus Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit, but never with His Essence.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Doveaman]

OK, we'll start with a big overall question and I'll hope that this doesn't completely fail like the last time I tried:

What is God?

Your first question is misleading.

God is a "Who", not a "What".

Who is God?

GOD IS WHO GOD IS.

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." - Ex 3:14.

Is there a less basic level?

He is the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Gen 1:1.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. - Col 1:17.

Is God included in 'all that exists', therefore being the source of himself, or is he seperate?

Since He is the Creator and Sustainer of all things, and is before all things, I would say He is separate.

In the beginning God ... He is before all things ... - Gen 1:1, Col 1:17.

EDIT: It's 2:36AM here... I think bedtime might be in order, but I'll be back here tomorrow with a few million questions or so

Where do you live going to sleep already, in the United Kingdom?

 

[1Prophetess]

Are you asking for this type of "more" or not?

God is:
Righteousness
Justice
Love
Eternal Life
Omniscience
Omnipotence
Omnipresence
Immutability
Veracity

He is our Father, and our God, and the Alpha and the Omega. He is all that has been, and all that is, all that can be, and all that will be.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Are you asking for this type of "more" or not?

God is:
Righteousness
Justice
Love
Eternal Life
Omniscience
Omnipotence
Omnipresence
Immutability
Veracity

He is our Father, and our God, and the Alpha and the Omega. He is all that has been, and all that is, all that can be, and all that will be.

I'm asking for whatever type of 'more' I can be given. Does your answer mean that righteousness and love etc. are part of God? Are saying that God is everything? The creator is the creation, in a way?

 

[SithDoughnut]

Your first question is misleading.

God is a "Who", not a "What".

Who is God?

GOD IS WHO GOD IS.

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." - Ex 3:14.
He is the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Gen 1:1.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. - Col 1:17.
Since He is the Creator and Sustainer of all things, and is before all things, I would say He is separate.

In the beginning God ... He is before all things ... - Gen 1:1, Col 1:17.

So he is considered separate from 'all things' in your reading of the Bible? He is not part of 'all things'?

When you say God is a who, do you mean that he is some form of human-type thing? (I know he is bigger and greater than that, but man was created in his image) Who is generally reserved for people, not other species, which is why I am asking.

Where do you live going to sleep already, in the United Kingdom?

Yep, most of the activity on this board happens at times when I should be asleep

 

[SithDoughnut]

The Biblical answer to this question is: "God is."

That's it --- period --- God is.

No predicate noun or nominative.That's the Biblical answer --- now the scientific answer.

God is made up of what has conveniently become to be known as unobtanium; or Element 404 on the Periodic Table.

By that do you mean that God is whatever he wants to be?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm asking for whatever type of 'more' I can be given. Does your answer mean that righteousness and love etc. are part of God? Are saying that God is everything? The creator is the creation, in a way?

I think what she is saying is that God has two types of attributes: natural and moral.

His natural attributes include:

• omniscience
• omnipotence
• omnipresence

His moral attributes include:

• love
• joy
• peace
• longsuffering
• mercy
• justice
• grace

 

[SithDoughnut]

God described himself as I am, the alpha and the omega, The beginning and end.

Does that mean that God is everything, or that he just created everything yet remains separate? I've seen a few interpretations of that phrase.

of what? to what end?

Whatever end there is to be given. If someone gives me a 'basic level' then that implies that there is a less basic level, otherwise why say it?

to answer a question that has not been answered in scripture about God either places the person giving the answer at the right hand of God or places "God" in the realm of that persons mind.

So either we can relay what has been written or we can guess/relay who God is to us. Any explanation we personally give of God, places that aspect being described in a finite realm, which takes away from His infinite nature. Which again places any answer given (Outside of scripture) well with in the realm of speculation.

Ok then, what would you speculate? From what you understand about God, what would you say to my first question. Interpretation often makes use of some speculation, after all.

 

[SithDoughnut]

I think what she is saying is that God has two types of attributes: natural and moral.

His natural attributes include:

• omniscience
• omnipotence
• omnipresence

His moral attributes include:

• love
• joy
• peace
• longsuffering
• mercy
• justice
• grace

Would you agree with that? If so, would you say that God is capable of not following his moral attributes, or that he is technically (i.e. he can change but never will) forced to follow them, or that he cannot change at all?

 

[AV1611VET]

By that do you mean that God is whatever he wants to be?

I don't know --- that's a tough question.

The Bible says it's impossible for Him to lie, so if He wanted to be a liar, He couldn't.

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

I would answer your question "yes" on a technicality.

It's not possible for God to "want to" be a liar --- it's just not an option that's available to Him.

I've never wanted to be a tennis ball.

 

[SithDoughnut]

I don't know --- that's a tough question.

The Bible says it's impossible for Him to lie, so if He wanted to be a liar, He couldn't.I would answer your question "yes" on a technicality.

It's not possible for God to "want to" be a liar --- it's just not an option that's available to Him.

I've never wanted to be a tennis ball.

However, you are capable of wanting to be a tennis ball. So therefore God is omni-whatever, but within certain limits? Do you mean to say that the potential is there but it will never be tapped, so to speak?

I think I'm following you, I just want to make sure. I'm just trying to fit what you said into the whole 'omni-everything' criteria.

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you agree with that?

Yes --- that is taught as basic doctrine; in other words, it is what you might call a "textbook response".

If so, would you say that God is capable of not following his moral attributes, or that he is technically (i.e. he can change but never will) forced to follow them, or that he cannot change at all?

I would say God cannot change at all.

For He to be "forced to follow His attributes" but can't, would mean that He is trying to do something that is not in His nature to do, but is meeting resistance that is beyond His capacity to overcome.

 

[AV1611VET]

However, you are capable of wanting to be a tennis ball.

If I was, wouldn't that be considered a mental defect?

God has no defects.

Do you mean to say that the potential is there but it will never be tapped, so to speak?

That I don't know.

I would guess and say the potential is certainly there, yet it will never be realized, as it cannot affect Him in any way.

I think I'm following you, I just want to make sure.

Don't follow me too far on this -- I'm in uncharted waters here ---

 

[drich0150]

Does that mean that God is everything, or that he just created everything yet remains separate? I've seen a few interpretations of that phrase.

God refers to Himself as The creator, so it would seem that it would not be possible for the Creator to be apart of his own creation. Or at least to the degree we understand the roles of a creator and the creation.

Whatever end there is to be given. If someone gives me a 'basic level' then that implies that there is a less basic level, otherwise why say it?

Sometimes in the English language we use phrases that may imply a deeper or even a contradictory meaning even when that implied meaning is not intended. like sun rise and sun set. The sun does not actually rise or set in relation to the horizon, the phrases simply describes day break or dusk. that is, despite it descriptive nature to the contrary. in this case referring to the basic understanding of God only refers to a simple understanding of nature of God's role that is being described. It is not implying that there is a hidden sub nature. Surly at even at 18 years of age, you should have come across this type of usage of the English language at least once by now.

what would you speculate? From what you understand about God, what would you say to my first question.

My belief in who god is, can be found in the answers He has Left us. God is "I am, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end."

This may seem like a cop out answer to you, but if God is truly an infinite being then how can a finite person have a full understanding of who God really is? It would be like trying to describe the depths and wonders of all the worlds oceans, by examining one single shot glass worth of sea water.

With that in mind God has given a shot glass worth of information, He is The I am, the alpha and omega, and the beginning and the end. Even in that simple phrase our limitations become apparent, because some of us have difficulty understanding what these words actually mean in relation to God.