How does God lead?

[Dave L]

I think many imagine God talking to them in their own voice and words. And then acting on it find themselves fraught with questions when imaginations never play out as expected.

In Acts prophets warned of famine and persecution, and believers took action. But most of the prophecies today prove false. It is because God now frames our thoughts and actions through scripture, not available to the New Covenant church until written, collected, copied and circulated in the late apostolic era.

So how do we know what to do according to scripture, when we come to a fork in the road? From scripture we know love always chooses the right course. So when love motivates our choices, we can rest assured it was the right choice.

Scripture also warns us to avoid certain traps. And with further understanding, we grow keen to the witness of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We find peace moving in certain directions, and alarm or heaviness moving in other directions.

Faith, when understood as being a fruit of the Holy Spirit also directs our path. If we have faith when we pray, we know the answer is on the way and we move in ways that expect its fulfillment. When faith is not present in certain matters, we know not to look any further in that direction.

Peter said scripture gives us a more sure word of prophecy than God directly speaking to us (2 Peter 1:17–21). In that scripture is not of private interpretation, where vocal proclamations were.

 

[Southernscotty]

I always say, if you wanna hear God speak, Then read the Word out loud :]
We have God's Holy Word in the bible, Why should we think we need more?

 

[Ken Rank]

I think God leads by example. At creation God worked 6 days and rested 1... was He tired? Heavens no, He is God. But He rested which had to be an example to those who follow regarding what He expects from us. Also... the three men who came to Abraham. One is called YHWH, and the other two, once they go to Sodom, we learn were angels. Before they were sent, God said, "I have heard the cries of sin from Sodom" and then says He will go to find out what it is about. But He is God, He already knew... by sending the two men He was showing, by example, that we need to verify facts before assigning guilt. God leads by example.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Missionaries that have been warned through prophecy to go one way and not another, in order to reach a group specifically prepared to hear, or to avoid their persecutors, could never have received such a communication through the Bible.

We find peace moving in certain directions, and alarm or heaviness moving in other directions.

Because God must only communicate through vague impressions and is never permitted to communicate in detail? You've established that you believe that God communicates to people directly, but you put limits on his ability to communicate, reducing him to something comparable to a barking dog or a man with a wad of cloth in his mouth. That's an indefensible position, at least from a Biblical standpoint.

 

[Dave L]

Missionaries that have been warned through prophecy to go one way and not another, in order to reach a group specifically prepared to hear, or to avoid their persecutors, could never have received such a communication through the Bible.



Because God must only communicate through vague impressions and is never permitted to communicate in detail? You've established that you believe that God communicates to people directly, but you put limits on his ability to communicate, reducing him to something comparable to a barking dog or a man with a wad of cloth in his mouth. That's an indefensible position, at least from a Biblical standpoint.

Any trustworthy documentation on your "prophecy" story?

 

[eleos1954]

I think many imagine God talking to them in their own voice and words. And then acting on it find themselves fraught with questions when imaginations never play out as expected.

In Acts prophets warned of famine and persecution, and believers took action. But most of the prophecies today prove false. It is because God now frames our thoughts and actions through scripture, not available to the New Covenant church until written, collected, copied and circulated in the late apostolic era.

So how do we know what to do according to scripture, when we come to a fork in the road? From scripture we know love always chooses the right course. So when love motivates our choices, we can rest assured it was the right choice.

Scripture also warns us to avoid certain traps. And with further understanding, we grow keen to the witness of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We find peace moving in certain directions, and alarm or heaviness moving in other directions.

Faith, when understood as being a fruit of the Holy Spirit also directs our path. If we have faith when we pray, we know the answer is on the way and we move in ways that expect its fulfillment. When faith is not present in certain matters, we know not to look any further in that direction.

Peter said scripture gives us a more sure word of prophecy than God directly speaking to us (2 Peter 1:17–21). In that scripture is not of private interpretation, where vocal proclamations were.

"In Acts prophets warned of famine and persecution, and believers took action. But most of the prophecies today prove false."

Disagree.

The earth and everything in it is experiencing a slow death. Described in Gods word as birth pangs. Birth pangs start out slowly and then become more frequent and intense.

famine and persecution - have and do come and go (just like initial birth pangs) ... however there will come a time when it is prevalent throughout the world (and the "baby" will be delivered, so to speak).

Matthew 24

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

I have no doubt all prophesy will be fulfilled.

Amen.

 

[Dave L]

"In Acts prophets warned of famine and persecution, and believers took action. But most of the prophecies today prove false."

Disagree.

The earth and everything in it is experiencing a slow death. Described in Gods word as birth pangs. Birth pangs start out slowly and then become more frequent and intense.

famine and persecution - have and do come and go (just like initial birth pangs) ... however there will come a time when it is prevalent throughout the world (and the "baby" will be delivered, so to speak).

Matthew 24

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

I have no doubt all prophesy will be fulfilled.

Amen.

I'm speaking about self proclaimed (false) prophets, not scripture.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Peter said scripture gives us a more sure word of prophecy than God directly speaking to us (2 Peter 1:17–21). In that scripture is not of private interpretation, where vocal proclamations were.

What do you make of this then?

Acts 16:9
During the night, Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and pleading with him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10As soon as Paul had seen the vision, we got ready to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.…

 

[Dave L]

What do you make of this then?

Acts 16:9
During the night, Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and pleading with him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10As soon as Paul had seen the vision, we got ready to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.…

Paul was an apostle. The charismatic gifts ceased with the apostles.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Paul was an apostle. The charismatic gifts ceased with the apostles.

Did God say they did or is it your own conclusion?

Did God confirm your conclusion himself so that you know it is correct or was the confirmation also a conclusion?

I think this may be a question of Validity?

John was a witness to Jesus being Baptised. The Father himself validated Jesus on the Mountain top saying "This is my Son Listen to him" There were witnesses of this as well.

Can CHRIST IN YOU not speak in you or do you read about him in the Bible?

 

[FIRESTORM314]

I always say, if you wanna hear God speak, Then read the Word out loud :]
We have God's Holy Word in the bible, Why should we think we need more?

Hello Scotty

I remember my young lad on his second Birthday - We lit two candles and sang Happy Birthday to him then he blew the candles out. When he realized the flame had gone out he said "MORE"

We lit the candles again and he blew them out again and then he said "MORE MORE"

It brought smile to everyone's face. Still got a photo of that cake and a video of the occasion.

much wisdom here

How deep are you in the River?
This is the Desert my friend - Go in the Deep End.

EZEKIEL 47
As the man went eastward with a measuring line in his hand, he measured off a thousand cubits and then led me through water that was ankle-deep. 4 He measured off another thousand cubits and led me through water that was knee-deep. He measured off another thousand and led me through water that was up to the waist. 5 He measured off another thousand, but now it was a river that I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in—a river that no one could cross. 6 He asked me, “Son of man, do you see this?”

 

[NBB]

Thing is, this has happened countless times, the Holy spirit can reveal, what a spiritual problem is, and to do that he needs to speak to us, you can't ask love to get wisdom on something, and to randomly ask about something until you find peace is not realistic, the Holy spirit can reveal problems that are unknown to us and he does that and other things today...

 

[NBB]

I been warned a few time by the Holy spirit about certain things, this happens too, he speak to us, God did not got muted thanks to God for that!!

 

[Richard T]

I have heard from God quite a few times for specific direction in my life and He has always answered by speaking to my heart. Not audible but a knowing on the inside. Such leadings are not necessarily prophecies or words, but simply the guidance of the Holy Spirit that is available for every believer. This kind of information is not going to be in the bible, nonetheless it is important troop positioning by our Lord. Perhaps those that are planted long-term in an area do not need much guidance, but the Holy Spirit still leads and guides in relationships, jobs, schools, everything that might be important. I could give dozens of stories of being led, all of them fruitful. I could also give examples of disobedience and sometimes negative consequences from them. As to the bible, none of these would contradict the bible. God too does give revelation from the bible. Some of this must be wrong though as there are multiple versions of what even one scripture might mean. This too is why you need personal revelation to help confirm that one is on the right track. Not a feeling that is going to take you to heresy, but a knowing that can only come from God and one that fully agrees with the word.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

I have heard from God quite a few times for specific direction in my life and He has always answered by speaking to my heart. Not audible but a knowing on the inside. Such leadings are not necessarily prophecies or words, but simply the guidance of the Holy Spirit that is available for every believer. This kind of information is not going to be in the bible, nonetheless it is important troop positioning by our Lord. Perhaps those that are planted long-term in an area do not need much guidance, but the Holy Spirit still leads and guides in relationships, jobs, schools, everything that might be important. I could give dozens of stories of being led, all of them fruitful. I could also give examples of disobedience and sometimes negative consequences from them. As to the bible, none of these would contradict the bible. God too does give revelation from the bible. Some of this must be wrong though as there are multiple versions of what even one scripture might mean. This too is why you need personal revelation to help confirm that one is on the right track. Not a feeling that is going to take you to heresy, but a knowing that can only come from God and one that fully agrees with the word.

Christ in You speaking to you

 

[Dave L]

Did God say they did or is it your own conclusion?

Did God confirm your conclusion himself so that you know it is correct or was the confirmation also a conclusion?

I think this may be a question of Validity?

John was a witness to Jesus being Baptised. The Father himself validated Jesus on the Mountain top saying "This is my Son Listen to him" There were witnesses of this as well.

Can CHRIST IN YOU not speak in you or do you read about him in the Bible?

You go beyond what scripture explicitly says if you say the gifts came in another way apart from the two outpourings or an apostle's hands. We should not "wing it' but prove our claims with scripture.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

You go beyond what scripture explicitly says if you say the gifts came in another way apart from the two outpourings or an apostle's hands. We should not "wing it' but prove our claims with scripture.

Hi Dave

I actually agreed with your first post to an extent - I find myself doing that sometimes.

This is my view...

I quoted EZEKIEL 47 earlier in the thread as an illustration . The River of God. When one is only shin deep in the River then you are limited in the way Christ can communicate to you. Even if you spend 10 years in the river - you still only have a shin deep experience for 10 years. Faith moves you deeper in the River - You must believe what the word says. The validation of this comes from God himself when you actually do it. Didn't we believe in Christ before Christ came in us?

Some people on this Forum have only a toe deep experience - this is why they are weak in their Faith. They haven't got round to the idea that Christ can speak to you even through just the bible alone.

Some people are in the River up to their Waist - they have dreams, visions, etc. God himself validates those dreams and visions.

This Is what I think the River Symbolises. It is the same River but we all at different places on it. We do not have the same experience. Some of us limit ourselves by being in at the Shallow End - Some of us move deeper ( by Faith in the Scripture ) and get a deeper experience and a clearer understanding of what God is saying to them - Possibly even Audibly

JOHN 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these

The big question is " DO YOU BELIEVE THIS"?
You must answer Yes before moving Deeper - That is Faith !

The Angel did some measuring - he was possibly measuring our Faith.

I shall end my argument with this Scripture Quote

"Son of Man Do You see This?"

 

[Blade]

Hey..its true.. they didnt have the NT. But they not all had the OT. God word is never old. And though WE have changed.. as in doubt since the sweet sweet holy Spirit fell on them. And Peter talked about the out pour of the Holy Spirt..how it has already started.. not in the middle not ending

Gods word as I see it is always NOW. There is no time and space with Him. When ever He spoke it was NOW. His words are never old or past. So when Christ says my sheep know my voice.. when the NT says the Holy Spirit said.. when Peter and John said.. what I have give I unto you.. its not something only the 12 had.. They said what it was.. FAITH in that NAME! Thats for all.. its NOW.

The holy Spirit and lead how? Yeah...no expert here.. but ALWAYS goes in line with the word.. and talks MORE then we ever do. I dont judge this by looking around me at others. I dont have to. He said.. my sheep KNOW my voice. KNOW.. that means.. you never have to wonder..was that GOD? Doubt is never of God.

So many don't hear because we dont take the time to listen. Oh we treat friends and family SO much better.. we give them hours days to talk. Yet we talk to God pray ask.. and.. do we give Him all the time it takes to answer? How long to we WAIT ON THE LORD? Wait.. say nothing.. min? Hours? Days? We put so much of this life before Him..

Is Christ in the Father and the Father in Him? And then is HE not IN US? So.. we wake up.. HE is right there. He said I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you. So.. we go to school work play.. He again is right there. Sleep... He again is right there. All day.. we might just be reading.. watching TV or playing on the Computer..phone.. He is right there.

Its not HIM thats not talking.. as MAN.. would you talk to someone that NEVER talks to you? Praise God He is not a man nor thinks like one. We dont hear because we don't listen. NO you dont. He said.. my sheep KNOW my voice. No where is it written He only talks once and while..or every other year lol.

Have FAITH.. listen.. you never have to ask ..was that God? And never once did I think.. was that my voice.. I dont know how to say it.. it was said to me when I was young.. you just know that you know that you know.. I dont know how I KNOW.. I just KNOW when its Him.. for me..its always to help lift up.. bring life.. words of life.. always backed up by the word.. always puts HIM 1st.. never me. so forth so on..

If you doubt.. then believe Him...that if you doubt let not that man think he will get anything from God.. but if you know HIS WILL.. Which is His word.. then if you KNOW He hears you ..then you know your petitions you prayed for will be answered..

 

[EzekielsWheels]

I think God speaks all the time through a variety of means. I'm not Catholic and I don't agree with everything he says but Henri Nouwen has a book called Discernment that I have found helpful in terms of developing our awareness of God's ways of expressing himself. I think it starts (and ultimately ends) with the Word but he can communicate to us through feelings, natural revelation, words of knowledge and other signs. We just need to be cautious about those and pray them out, not rushing anything. I don't believe the charismatic gifts of prophecy ended with the apostles although I absolutely agree there are a ton of false prophets out there, so much so that it would make you want to disbelieve any prophecy you here. But we can check words of knowledge by having them confirmed by others.

There's unfortunately just a lot of confusion out there and counterfeit spirits that pretend to be the holy spirit but are actually demonic and are misleading people. The more that I learn about all this the more that I believe the only way we as a church are going to survive all of this confusion is to have very sharp spiritual discernment which means we need to be in the word regularly, praying constantly and keeping our walks close with Jesus Christ.