Imblessed said:
Actually, strangely enough, I think the typical Calvinist answer is akin to the Catholic answer.
He who endures to the end is saved.
Will I endure? I have no reason to believe I won't! Scripture assures me that God who started the good work in me will finish it and I will stand before Jesus someday. My life and the fruit of my life, as I examine it, assure me that I am saved and have no reason to doubt my salvation.
Are their Calvinists who are not saved? I imagine so, sadly enough. Head knowledge is not enough, and there are plenty of people out there that know scripture inside and out and know doctrine inside and out but never once put it to practice, or never truly let go and rely on the one thing needed for salvation: Trust and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your lord and savior.
I underlined the parts which I am concentrating on. You speak as if your elect, and affirm a doctrine based because you feel you were chosen. From what I have been told election is not something you desire and then your elect, either you were or you werent. If your not elect in the first place then all that believing, assurance,fruits, etc is in vain. Anyone can say/think they believe, assured, fruit, etc, but that doesnt mean elect.
"enduring to the end" means nothing unless you first assume election.
Cajun-
I think you give a great answer. I like John's answer "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:3) It is objective and we do have other assurances in Scripture but this is the objective point that we can guage where we are.
But I thought its not based on works? I know many many people who keep most of the commandments, and yet they are not even Christian, while at the same time in the Bible we see good men break the Commandments. I still dont see how that assures you of election, because you could keep all those commandments and yet if you were never elect it was in vain. I dont believe people would take such chances.
Of course there is this answer from Calvin's Catechism for young children:
Teacher: My child, are you a Christian in fact as well as in name?
Child: Yes, my father.
Teacher: How is this known to you?
Child: Because I am baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
I would agree with this to a degree. I believe that Baptism really does wash away sins (including original), but I also believe that not everyone Baptized will attain heaven due to future failures on their part.
Of course persevernce again comes into play.
Do you believe that those Baptized can fall away? If you dont believe that Baptized can fall away then I have found a concrete example of someone who knows they are saved.
tertiumquid said:
John says "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
That's how i know, because God the Holy Spirit tells me so through Scripture.
But cant anyone read 1Jn5:13 and believe they have eternal life? Same thing with the Spirit telling you, all religions believe the "Spirit" is leading them to the truth. Did you know that the way mormon missionaries teach people that the Book of Mormon really is inspired by God is if one reads the book and gets a "burning in their bosom", ie a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
These "types" of questions are quite trivial in my opinion. It would be like me asking you, "How do you know with certainty that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church, since you are not infallible?"
I dont have to be infallible, I take into consideration many factors. Then I make a decision.
I was under the impression that Calvinists dont make the decision for election, that decision was alread made. I dont see where such factors and consideration exist in election, because it isnt up to "your choice".
The only reason any of us know anything with certainty is because God says it is certain.
And what does this mean?
cygnus
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He who perseveres to the end shall be saved ......... and God keeps the Elect!
If you knew you were never elect to begin with would you be calvinist?
The way I see "he who perseveres" means you must assume before persevering that you are elect. If you dont assume as much thats putting all your egg into one basket so to speak.
so it is no simple matter, yet there are ways of establishing assurance otherwise we wouldn't be told to make our calling and election sure.
And how do you make it "sure"?
Here's a start ......... do we hear God's voice!
I have never heard God's actual voice, have you? I do believe in personal revelation, eg Paul's conversion, but I would think thats few and far between.
tetzel-
From what my Calvinist friend tells me, one hopes they are elect. Your very words " If someone were to decide to be Calvinist..." give me a chuckle.
Thats what I hear too, they "hope they are elect". Here is how I see that playing out before I would "hope" I was elect, lets say 100 people all hope they are elect, keep the commandments and such, but in the end only 25 were really elect, is that the "risk" someone who is really confident in just "hoping" would take? I dont think so. The only logical conclusion for me to hold is that people assume they are elect, because nobody I know of would subscribe to such odds.
If I may be permitted to turn the question back on you, how does a Roman Catholic know that his works are sufficient to gain salvation through faith and works?
The CC teaches that a person who is Baptized is a sign of being chosen. By this regeneration and forgivness of sins they are enabled (but not forced) to do what is meritorius for salvation, the only way to fall is through their own future failings.
jon said:
By the testimonium Spiritu Sancti.
So are you saying that you really heard the voice of God like Paul did or that you simply felt a "burning in your bosom"?
monergism said:
See, Catholic Dude? 1 John. I thought I brought that up.
(I dont remember what was the exact words you used with 1Jn so could you repost in this thread)
ooooohhhhh, aaahhhhh 
