How do you view Theistic Evolutionists?

[LoG]

Or on the other hand, they might be doing more good than bad by introducing atheists to the idea that you can still believe in Christ as the Saviour without having to deny objective science or logic.
As I said elsewhere, the Bible speaks truth regardless of whether its stories are literal or metaphorical. Our emphasis on the literal is only a modern development (coincident with the age of "enlightenment").

As a believer in the Gap Theory, my problem with TE's is not the evolutionary aspect but with the denial of a literal Genesis. If God in a previous creation experimented with evolving species, that is up to Him. He may have done so, although my personal opinion is that the evidence points more to multiple Ruin/Reconstruction scenarios.

The power of salvation comes through believing God in His Word. What kind of "good" comes from telling a potential convert that the foundational aspects of the Word are myths and metaphors starting from Genesis 1:1?

 

[Pats]

Call me simple-minded, but I don't see this as a Creationist vs. TE issue. I see solely as a Word of God issue.

I'd like to hear you expand on that. Is it just a wishy washy, failure to stand on your beliefs in Scripture to point out the views of other Christians with whom you don't agree, but want to present as other alternative views?

 

[chaoschristian]

Howdy folks!

I was reading through this thread and saw 'the theology of TEs' mentioned repeatedly, and so I thought I would post this link: http://www.christianforums.com/t2559238-the-gospel-and-theistic-evolution.html

If you haven't read through it, then I recommend that you do so, since this is the most recent and probably most thorough discussion of TE 'theology' that's taken place in this forum.

Y'all be well now.

 

[vossler]

I'd like to hear you expand on that. Is it just a wishy washy, failure to stand on your beliefs in Scripture to point out the views of other Christians with whom you don't agree, but want to present as other alternative views?

I'm not quite sure if I understand what you're asking, but I'll give it a shot.

First of all, I don't like labels like Creationist or for that matter Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. I believe we're all Christians and as such first and foremost we believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God.

With the Bible as my foundation and owner's manual if you would, it would have to take a strong hermaneutical study to in some way sway me from Genesis 1 being anything less than literal. As of this moment I haven't seen anything even remotely close to that. The only thing I've ever come across that in someway challenges the words of Genesis are man's scientific theories and hypotheses. I'm sorry but anything man derived will never supplant or challenge the Word of God.

So, I have no choice but to accept the Bible at its face value. To do otherwise would be doing a great disservice to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To answer your question, if I understand it correctly, then yes we've taken the Bible and applied man's wisdom to it and come up with a wishy-washy interpretation that is suppose to please the world and in the process we've taken our eye off of who it is we should be pleasing. We have become a politically correct, non-judgmental, non-discerning and ineffective voice for the Gospel. We are afraid to take a stand on what we believe because we've allowed the enemy to create doubt where no doubt should exist. Just look at how many people are afraid to say the name of Jesus today. Absolute truth, in many ways no longer exists.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

 

[Pats]

I can see your point of view, Vossler.

When I read over some of the recent threads in the Creat/Evo forum, it's very dissappointing. There may be a Christian creationist behaving less than Christ like in there, and seeing TE's tell him so is fine. But right along side those posts you've got atheists and agnostics asking questions of Christianity all over the place, and the TE's just slamming on the creationist and moving on without addressing anything spiritual that's been brought up.

I found that disheartening. One would think if they are here as Christians first and foremost, answering spiritual questions posted by the lost would be just as, if not more, important, than admonishing their Christian brother.

 

[vossler]

When I read over some of the recent threads in the Creat/Evo forum, it's very dissappointing. There may be a Christian creationist behaving less than Christ like there, and seeing TE's tell him so is fine. But right along side those posts you've got atheists and agnostics asking questions of Christianity all over the place, and the TE's just slamming on the creationist and moving on without addressing anything spiritual that's been brought up.

That's one of my biggest complaints, you really struck a nerve with me on that. Everything you said here is exactly correct. Yes, there are creationists who, at times, behave in a manner that isn't very Christlike. They should be made aware of it and I know that I'm guilty of not standing up and pointing that out. Part of the reason is that I try to minimize my posting there to those that address a spiritual point. I'm not going to post on the science except to maybe ask a question. Now the problem is; instead of being told, in love, how their behavior may be inappropriate, they get attacked and slammed.

Still, the thing that has always bothered me even more is how TEs would gang up with the atheist/agnostic to ridicule and belittle a fellow brother. It absolutely disgusts me. From reading many of those posts you would think that they believe the creationist to be:

A: an incompetent and ignorant fools or
B: naive followers of some sort of sect or teacher or
C: An agent of the thief.

One of the complaints many TEs have - sometimes justifiably so - is that creationists either think of them as non-Christian or lesser Christians. I've seen that occur, as a matter of fact some time ago I did post something to that effect. There may actually be some truth to that, yet we who believe in a young earth and literal Genesis should be very careful when treading on ground such as that. We may be attempting to do what only God has the authority to do. Does that mean we should ignore the question, no, it just means that we need to approach it in an entirely different manner.

With the many faults creationists do have, one thing I've yet to see a creationist do is to yoke themselves with an unbeliever to discredit a believer, yet TEs seem to have no problem whatsoever doing that. Where you would think because TEs seem to have such a close relationship with the atheist/agnostic community that they might use that as an opportunity for evangelism, however that, from what I've seen, that rarely if ever happens.

One would think if they are here as Christians first and foremost, answering spiritual questions posted by the lost would be just as, if not more, important, than admonishing their Christian brother.

Amen sister!

 

[shernren]

With the many faults creationists do have, one thing I've yet to see a creationist do is to yoke themselves with an unbeliever to discredit a believer, yet TEs seem to have no problem whatsoever doing that. Where you would think because TEs seem to have such a close relationship with the atheist/agnostic community that they might use that as an opportunity for evangelism, however that, from what I've seen, that rarely if ever happens.

My opinion on this taken to the open forum.

 

[random_guy]

I can see your point of view, Vossler.

When I read over some of the recent threads in the Creat/Evo forum, it's very dissappointing. There may be a Christian creationist behaving less than Christ like in there, and seeing TE's tell him so is fine. But right along side those posts you've got atheists and agnostics asking questions of Christianity all over the place, and the TE's just slamming on the creationist and moving on without addressing anything spiritual that's been brought up.

I found that disheartening. One would think if they are here as Christians first and foremost, answering spiritual questions posted by the lost would be just as, if not more, important, than admonishing their Christian brother.

Just to be fair, I try my best to defend Christianity against the dogmatic materialistic atheist when they try to use evolution/science to attack Christianity. Evidence can be found here. I try to be consistent with my views. If an atheist tries to use science to disprove Christianity, I will point out that science only speaks about the natural world, and that it can't prove/disprove supernatural events/beings. However, I agree that I was disheartened that I was the only one that caught this error and that no one (TEists or YECists) spoke out against this.

EDIT: I'm arguing alone against someone trying to disprove Christianity using math/logic in this thread. If you understand math/logic, I would love some extra help.

 

[Pats]

Just to be fair, I try my best to defend Christianity against the dogmatic materialistic atheist when they try to use evolution/science to attack Christianity. Evidence can be found here. I try to be consistent with my views. If an atheist tries to use science to disprove Christianity, I will point out that science only speaks about the natural world, and that it can't prove/disprove supernatural events/beings. However, I agree that I was disheartened that I was the only one that caught this error and that no one (TEists or YECists) spoke out against this.

EDIT: I'm arguing alone against someone trying to disprove Christianity using math/logic in this thread. If you understand math/logic, I would love some extra help.

To be fair, I don't mean to over generalize that every Christian of the evolutionary camp would act this way. I was just dissappointed at the number of them that I saw doing it. I thought the spiritual questions of the athiests were going unanswered by many TE's who seemed to prefer responding to the creationists views.

I'll see if you're thread is anything I'm able to help out with.

 

[random_guy]

To be fair, I don't mean to over generalize that every Christian of the evolutionary camp would act this way. I was just dissappointed at the number of them that I saw doing it. I thought the spiritual questions of the athiests were going unanswered by many TE's who seemed to prefer responding to the creationists views.

I'll see if you're thread is anything I'm able to help out with.

Oh, I understand completely. The problem is I'm not as well versed in spiritual matters as I am in science. Unless I see a huge error that I know I can response adequately enough, I try to stay out of GA. I think I'd end up hurting us by answering then helping.

Also, thanks for any help.

 

[Silent Enigma]

It's about time I came back in here! Sorry bout that.

Anyways, I've also noticed how the TEs in the crevo debate area spend all their time ripping on YECs and not doing much productive. But that may be just a segment of the TE population we're seeing in that respect.

In general, whether they believe in a literal 6 creation days is not necessarily a determining factor whether they take other parts of the Bible serously. In the past I'd been inclined to thing that a TE would be a lot more apt to play fast and loose with scripture in other areas as well, like gay marriage, etc. But from what I can see on these forums it varies from person to person.

I've also run across forum members who advocated what I considered very liberal stances on some issues, but when checking their public profile they listed YEC as their origin view.

 

[Pats]

Howdy folks!

I was reading through this thread and saw 'the theology of TEs' mentioned repeatedly, and so I thought I would post this link: http://www.christianforums.com/t2559238-the-gospel-and-theistic-evolution.html

If you haven't read through it, then I recommend that you do so, since this is the most recent and probably most thorough discussion of TE 'theology' that's taken place in this forum.

Y'all be well now.

Thanks. That's an informative thread, indeed.

 

[Remus]

If I felt it was my personal opinion that the earth and everything in it was created in six days then I too would agree and not wish to thrust that upon someone else. However, I don't see it that way, it is clearly the Word of God. So the question isn't whether I'm a creationist or a Christian, it's whether or I believe what the Word of God is saying.

I don't believe it is our job to determine where the line is. Our job is to preach the Word. If the Word says God created everything in six days, then that's what you preach and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.
Chances are you should have done it yourself, I don't know of too many instances where God wants you to hand someone off that He has put on your heart. Usually when that happens, it's a result of us thinking too much.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you. You've given me a lot to think about but I remain undecided on this issue at this time.

 

[Ave Maria]

Deleted

 

[mark kennedy]

I am not going to resign myself to the Scriptures being reduced to mythology and folklore. TEs may or may not agree with that perspective but it is nevertheless a fact. I have wondered if anything in Scripture can be taken literally for TEs and it has been like pulling teeth to get a straight answer.

To be honest, some are pretty Christian in their convictions and don't shy away from essential doctrine. Others are more tentative and it really makes me wonder some times. I assume you are a creationist reading this post with a marginal amount of interest. Suddenly I spring a big and important question you were not ready for...here is comes...brace yourself.

Do you believe the Nicean Creed? If you actually ask me what the Nicean Creed is I am going to be very irratated.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Romanseight2005]

I was just wondering how other creationists view Theistic Evolutionists. (And I'm referring to Christian TEs, not general TEs.)

I'll think about it and post my opinion later, but for now I just wanted to get the conversation started.

Well, I certainly can't judge them. But the Bible says that sin caused death. Evolution says death causes life. They don't mix. So I think they believe a lie.