How do you support OSAS in light of Heb 6:4 without being Calvinist?

JPPT1974 · Apr 28, 2006

Jesus is in heaven with God
Sitting by His right hand throne!

BoranJarami · Apr 28, 2006

Yes. He's missing a couple of crowns and his reward will be less, but his salvation is secure.

How can you say this? Just because he said a pray doesn't mean that he is saved. That prayer had to be earnist and truthful. If this is the case then I would agree with you, but without that knowledge we cannot make this judgement.

Erinwilcox · Apr 28, 2006

mesue said:
Yes. He's missing a couple of crowns and his reward will be less, but his salvation is secure.

How do you know this? Although I cannot judge this person's heart, how do we know that he was truly converted in the first place? This person thinks that people who love God with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength are radical.
Christ said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Also, faith without works is dead. Any tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and burned.

Erinwilcox · Apr 28, 2006

BoranJarami said:
How can you say this? Just because he said a pray doesn't mean that he is saved. That prayer had to be earnist and truthful. If this is the case then I would agree with you, but without that knowledge we cannot make this judgement.

I agree. We cannot judge his heart. Only God knows that. But, remember, faith without works is dead. But, let's say for just a moment that he is NOT saved. Is it a good thing that he is going through life thinking that he is? Thinking that he is on safe ground because he accepted the eternal insurance policy and then stuck in in his pocket till his death? This is where OSAS is dangerously giving people false assurance of their salvation. We cannot judge or know men's hearts, but some people are decieved into thinking that they are saved because they said a prayer and that they'll always remain saved even though they never repented of their sins and truly turned to God. The prayer was their insurance policy and now that they have their ticket, they can live as they please. False assurance. Very dangerous.

mesue · Apr 28, 2006

Erinwilcox said:
How do you know this? Although I cannot judge this person's heart, how do we know that he was truly converted in the first place? This person thinks that people who love God with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength are radical.
Christ said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Also, faith without works is dead. Any tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and burned.

I know this because Jesus told me this
Some things for you to consider and to know why I know that I will never lose my salvation.
Jesus promised that I cannot lose my salvation:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)
Further, that I cannot do anything to lose my salvation because:
Salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. It is a gift from God. No man can lose his salvation on his own, because no man earned his salvation.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
If I had to do anything to earn or keep my salvation, I would easily lose it.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)
Yet 2 Timothy assures us it is Jesus Christ who keeps us, not we ourselves.
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
(2 Timothy 1:12)
Galatians 2:21 states clearly that if we could become righteous by anything we do, then Jesus Christs death was in vein.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(Galatians 2:21)
God wont cast me out, no man can cause me to lose my salvation, I cannot lose it myself and there is nothing else to make me lose my salvation
For I am persuaded, that neither
death, - you cannot lose it when you die
nor life, - you cannot lose it while youre alive
nor angels, - cannot take it away from you
nor principalities, - the government cant take it from you.
nor powers, - the devil cannot cause you to lose it.
nor things present, - nothing happening right now
nor things to come, - nothing happening in the future.
Nor height, - nothing above you.
nor depth, - nothing below you.
nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
Does this mean I can go on and knowingly sin? Absolutely not!
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)
But how I serve the Lord while here on earth will be judged.
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Corinthians 3:13-15)

Erinwilcox · Apr 28, 2006

mesue said:
I know this because Jesus told me this
Some things for you to consider and to know why I know that I will never lose my salvation.
Jesus promised that I cannot lose my salvation:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)
Further, that I cannot do anything to lose my salvation because:
Salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. It is a gift from God. No man can lose his salvation on his own, because no man earned his salvation.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
If I had to do anything to earn or keep my salvation, I would easily lose it.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)
Yet 2 Timothy assures us it is Jesus Christ who keeps us, not we ourselves.
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
(2 Timothy 1:12)
Galatians 2:21 states clearly that if we could become righteous by anything we do, then Jesus Christs death was in vein.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(Galatians 2:21)
God wont cast me out, no man can cause me to lose my salvation, I cannot lose it myself and there is nothing else to make me lose my salvation
For I am persuaded, that neither
death, - you cannot lose it when you die
nor life, - you cannot lose it while youre alive
nor angels, - cannot take it away from you
nor principalities, - the government cant take it from you.
nor powers, - the devil cannot cause you to lose it.
nor things present, - nothing happening right now
nor things to come, - nothing happening in the future.
Nor height, - nothing above you.
nor depth, - nothing below you.
nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
Does this mean I can go on and knowingly sin? Absolutely not!
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)
But how I serve the Lord while here on earth will be judged.
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Corinthians 3:13-15)

I agree. However, does this mean that anyone who just says a prayer is automatically saved? I am not saying that anyone can lose their salvation. Rather, quite the contrary. But, I am questioning whether this person was EVER REALLY SAVED TO BEGIN WITH! Because if he wasn't (in which case he has false security) ever really saved in the first place, then he hasn't lost his salvation, now has he?

PrincetonGuy · Apr 28, 2006

Matt. 13:20. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21. yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

Matt. 24:1. Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2. And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."
3. As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4. And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
5. "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
6. "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
7. "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
8. "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9. "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
11. "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12. "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
13. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Matt. 25:14. "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
15. "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16. "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17. "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18. "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
19. "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
20. "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
21. "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
22. "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
23. "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
24. "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
25. 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
26. "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
27. 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
28. 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
29. "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
30. "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 4:16. "In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy;
17. and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away.

Mark 13. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Luke 8:13. "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 15:5. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7. "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8. "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
9. "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
10. "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11. "These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

1 Cor. 9:27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

1 Cor. 10:11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

Gal. 5:1. It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Phil. 2:15. so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,
16. holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

Col. 1:21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

2 Thes. 2:3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4. who opposes and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9. that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10. and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12. in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

1 Tim. 4:1. But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2. by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3. men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

1 Tim. 4:16. Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

2 Tim 4:1. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2. preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4. and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

mesue · Apr 28, 2006

Erinwilcox said:
I agree. However, does this mean that anyone who just says a prayer is automatically saved? I am not saying that anyone can lose their salvation. Rather, quite the contrary. But, I am questioning whether this person was EVER REALLY SAVED TO BEGIN WITH! Because if he wasn't (in which case he has false security) ever really saved in the first place, then he hasn't lost his salvation, now has he?

Anyone who says that heartfelt prayer is saved. If a person says they are saved, it is not up to me to say otherwise. It isn't up to me to say they never really were. That is between them and Jesus. People can turn their backs on God, but that doesn't mean God turns His back on them.
You know that there are kids that say that prayer that have no earthly idea of what they are doing. However, I would think that they have a good understanding if they go forward and get baptised.
How can you have a false sense of security? Wouldn't that be Satan casting doubt?

PrincetonGuy · Apr 28, 2006

Heb. 3:12. Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Heb. 10:26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27. but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
31. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 5:19. My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20. let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Pet. 2:1. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
3. and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
5. and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6. and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
7. and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
8. (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),
9. then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
10. and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
11. whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.
12. But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
13. suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you,
14. having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
15. forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16. but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
17. These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.
18. For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19. promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

2 Pet. 3:14. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
15. and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16. as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

1 John 5:16. If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

Jude 1:4. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5. Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
6. And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7. just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
8. Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
9. But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
10. But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
11. Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12. These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
13. wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
14. It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15. to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
16. These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.
Keep Yourselves in the Love of God
17. But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
18. that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
19. These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly- minded, devoid of the Spirit.
20. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21. keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

Rev. 3:5. 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

(All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

PrincetonGuy · Apr 28, 2006

mesue said:
Anyone who says that heartfelt prayer is saved. If a person says they are saved, it is not up to me to say otherwise. It isn't up to me to say they never really were. That is between them and Jesus. People can turn their backs on God, but that doesn't mean God turns His back on them.
You know that there are kids that say that prayer that have no earthly idea of what they are doing. However, I would think that they have a good understanding if they go forward and get baptised.
How can you have a false sense of security? Wouldn't that be Satan casting doubt?

A person can have a false sense of security if they believe that they are saved when in fact they are not. That would NOT be Satan casting doubt; that would be the Holy Spirit convicting the person of their need of salvation. Jesus did not teach that all that was necessary for salvation was to say a quick prayer and get wet; Jesus taught that in order to be saved one MUST be born again.

JacobHall86 · Apr 28, 2006

A young boy says the sinners prayer an is baptized. Fastforward- twenty years later, he has shown absolutely no interest in Christ or His Word for many years, doesn't go to church, is living with his girlfriend in fornication, is a heavy drinker, etc. But his mom still says that he's a Christian because he prayed the sinner's prayer and was baptized.

Is he really saved? [/quote]

Nope, the Sinners prayer isnt Biblical. Saying it doesnt save anyone. Jesus Saves them, not a prayer. If there are no fruits in someones life, they are not saved.

Faith + Works = Proof.

The person mentioned above had neither, so he was never saved to begin with.

mesue · Apr 28, 2006

JacobHall86 said:
]Nope, the Sinners prayer isnt Biblical. Saying it doesnt save anyone. Jesus Saves them, not a prayer. If there are no fruits in someones life, they are not saved.

I said:

mesue said:
Anyone who says that heartfelt prayer is saved.

You're right, there is no "sinners prayer" in the Bible, but what prayer did you say to acknowledge you were a "sinner" in need of a Savior? Should it have a different title?

JacobHall86 · Apr 28, 2006

mesue said:
You're right, there is no "sinners prayer" in the Bible, but what prayer did you say to acknowledge you were a "sinner" in need of a Savior? Should it have a different title?

I really dont remember, I was sitting in a prison cell.

JM · Apr 28, 2006

My children know I lov'em...no matter what I make sure they know by what I've done for them in the past, what I do for them in the present and how I remain faithful to the task of raising them up. I correct or punish them in love, I guide them in love...no matter what happens they'll always be my children and they know that...nothing they do will remove them from my heart, they'll always be my children.

Once a loving father, always a loving father...once saved, always faithful.

jm

How do you support OSAS in light of Heb 6:4 without being Calvinist?

August Back to School

Regular Member

Delighting in His Goodness

Delighting in His Goodness

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.

Delighting in His Goodness

Veteran

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.

Veteran

Veteran

Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.

Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

Confessional Free Catholic

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency