• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How do you reconcile Evolution and Genesis?

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Original sin is a propensity to sin, more or less the desire to sin. Everyone has it. We're born with it. Typically it is the result of obeying our animal nature instead of our human or godly nature.

The history of the earth is a pattern of life developing, then growing, expanding, and then being destroyed like a slate being wiped clean. Each time it made way for new life to form and expand until ultimately humankind appeared. Then around 10,000 years ago there was a dramatic change in human culture. Mankind went from hunter-gatherer to settlers and farmers. Along with that came the intellect leading the way for alphabets and advanced writing, mathematics, astronomy, etc.

I don't try to reconcile Genesis with Evolution. It would be impossible because I don't know everything. And if I claimed to know everything I would soon be proven wrong. Just like everybody else.
You don't have to know everything, just kearn to pick up on key points. First, the age of the earth and the cosmos is irrelavent to the doctrine of creation. All the Bible tells us is that it was in the beginning. Secondly, evolution isn't a theory of natural history, it a phenomenon in nature by which living creature afapt to new circumstances. Finally, the burden of proof is on the evolutionist. The scenerio as they imagine it goes like this, our oldest anthropod ape ancestors dat back to some time before 2 mya. Then the human (hominid) brain doubles in size and complexity over night without precursors. The Neandertals somehow even had a cranial capacity ten % gteater then our own. Then ten thousand years ago people start building the great pyramids of Eqypt, similar structures are built in South America as well.

These scenerios are patently absurd, the only other option is special creation. With Darwinism that option is catagorically rejected and whatever naturalistic scenerio can be devised must be the case.

There's another way, keep science limited to natural phenomenon and stop trying to minipulate belief systems in society with arguments from credulity (authority).
 
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Christians who accept Evolution usually assert that Genesis 1 and 2 were not meant to be taken literally.

Agreed, but that’s the part of Kind after Kind they reject....

I could (but I don’t) easily accept an old earth interpretation, given certain words that are often misinterpreted. But even so, this would not lead me to the belief in evolution. One could totally reject all of creation being 6 days, and accept just the creation which led to man took six days, and that would still not lead one to evolution.

To get lost in evolution is simply to ignore the real world....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heissonear
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,238
10,136
✟284,596.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
There's another way, keep science limited to natural phenomenon and stop trying to minipulate belief systems in society with arguments from credulity (authority).
Evolution is a natural phenomenon, so well attested that less than 1% of practicing biologists doubt its reality.

In contrast belief systems are exactly that: systems designed to support beliefs arrived at through faith, or cultural indoctrination, or societal inertia. To the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems.

The sad thing is the belief systems, generated by faith, need only look to faith to survive and prosper. Instead the manipulation undermines the faith and corrupts the essence of the system, all unnecessarily. Mark, save us both the trouble of replying. I was writing for those who are, as yet undecided. Before they do decide I urge them to make a serious study of evolution from the experts, not the creationist sources, most of which are seriously inaccurate and many of which are deliberately deceitful.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DogmaHunter
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Evolution is a natural phenomenon, so well attested that less than 1% of practicing biologists doubt its reality.

In contrast belief systems are exactly that: systems designed to support beliefs arrived at through faith, or cultural indoctrination, or societal inertia. To the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems.

The sad thing is the belief systems, generated by faith, need only look to faith to survive and prosper. Instead the manipulation undermines the faith and corrupts the essence of the system, all unnecessarily. Mark, save us both the trouble of replying. I was writing for those who are, as yet undecided. Before they do decide I urge them to make a serious study of evolution from the experts, not the creationist sources, most of which are seriously inaccurate and many of which are deliberately deceitful.

So well indoctrinated to the epicycles as was the entire world during Ptolemy's reign of mathematical epicycles. What appears to fit the observations does not mean it is true......

Regardless that it fails on all counts to actually fit the observations...... until the epicycles adjust the data to make it forcefully fit.....
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Heissonear
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Evolution is a natural phenomenon, so well attested that less than 1% of practicing biologists doubt its reality.

I don't doubt it a a reality, that doesn't mean God didn't create life 6000 years ago and evolution start from there.

In contrast belief systems are exactly that: systems designed to support beliefs arrived at through faith, or cultural indoctrination, or societal inertia. To the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems.

You just described Darwinism

The sad thing is the belief systems, generated by faith, need only look to faith to survive and prosper. Instead the manipulation undermines the faith and corrupts the essence of the system, all unnecessarily. Mark, save us both the trouble of replying. I was writing for those who are, as yet undecided. Before they do decide I urge them to make a serious study of evolution from the experts, not the creationist sources, most of which are seriously inaccurate and many of which are deliberately deceitful.
All very dramatic and utterly pointless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,238
10,136
✟284,596.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
You just described Darwinism
1. Darwinism is not really an appropriate term for current evolutionary theory. Use of the term, however, points towards agenda driven rhetoric: great entertainment, but not the stuff of adult conversations.
2. Your claim requires that many tens of thousands of scientists, in scores of countries, covering almost all religious affiliations are either so cynical that they are engaged in an enormous conspiracy; or so dumb, they have been misled by a small clique of their peers. Really? How does that work? :scratch:
3. I requote my point: "to the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems."
4. And for those who feel the need to conduct such manipulation, because their faith is weak, they have my pity. And that pity continues up until the point that they publicly lie and evangelise their corrupt thinking. Then the pity turns to anger and respect exits by the front door.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
1. Darwinism is not really an appropriate term for current evolutionary theory. Use of the term, however, points towards agenda driven rhetoric: great entertainment, but not the stuff of adult conversations.

We were having an adult convetsation until you busted in and derailed the topic. Darwinism is always appropiate when your talking natural selection, it was the theory that launched him into the academic stratosphere. Or it is a central theme in the develement of eugenetics through Galton and Oliver Wendell Holmes. You dont seem to have a clue about the Modern Synthesis developed at Harvard by Ernst Mayr or the reveberating thunder of atritious Darwinian culture tyrany during the culture war that produced the likes of you. Theres one in every thread.
2. Your claim requires that many tens of thousands of scientists, in scores of countries, covering almost all religious affiliations are either so cynical that they are engaged in an enormous conspiracy; or so dumb, they have been misled by a small clique of their peers. Really? How does that work? :scratch:

Its called a unified theory sport, the RCC ruled western Europe for a thousand years with one called Aristolean Scholasticsism. It was a dialectical synthesis of Aristotle, Plato and Catholiicism. The modern synthesis is Darwinian naturalism and Mendelian Genetics. But you'll never bother learning any of that, why learn something when you can convince yourself you know everything by putting on these pedatic performances for an audiance that has left the theator.
3. I requote my point: "to the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems."
Classic argument from credulity from someone who has none. You dont even reference the work of your cherished secular clerics as you pretend to defend.
4. And for those who feel the need to conduct such manipulation, because their faith is weak, they have my pity. And that pity continues up until the point that they publicly lie and evangelise their corrupt thinking. Then the pity turns to anger and respect exits by the front door.

Yes, pitiful anger is hardly a substitute for substantive reason, your like the poster child. You go straight to that ad hominem fallacy and abandon any hope of a rational or evidential logic. You are nothing new, your not a dutiful Centurian guarding the last bridge against barbarians at the gate. You simply cast aspersions and drive the serious poster away by offending their sensibilities. You are arguing for a mythology that has created the stone age ape man myth and wrong laws of demonstration like mutations plus natural selection. A dramatic performance to be sure but yours is a carnival side show compared to the stars prading across the stage in the Darwinian theater of the mind.

There are idols which have immigrated into mens minds from various dogmas of philosophies, but also from wrong laws of demonstration. These I call idols of the theator, because in my judgment all the recieved systems are but stage plays, representing worls of their own creation after an unreal and scenic creation. Francis Bacon​

Pitiful indeed, but there is one in every thread. Its not the religious clergy instgationg these diatribes, rather the secular clerics who bow the knee to the altar of Darwinian natural philosophy and its requisite naturalistic assumptions. You are what you rage against, its classic projection. What is truly sad is you will never learn from the sunject matter, the life sciences or the sacred texts you so zealously trample under foot. Sad, very sad indeed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
1. Darwinism is not really an appropriate term for current evolutionary theory. Use of the term, however, points towards agenda driven rhetoric: great entertainment, but not the stuff of adult conversations.
If that makes you feel beter...

2. Your claim requires that many tens of thousands of scientists, in scores of countries, covering almost all religious affiliations are either so cynical that they are engaged in an enormous conspiracy; or so dumb, they have been misled by a small clique of their peers. Really? How does that work? :scratch:
The same way it worked when Ptolemy made his epicycles and everyone was convinced they were true for centuries..... It's what they wanted to believe.....

They same way they believed in Piltdown man for close to 50 years until someone actually bothered to look.... It's what they wanted to believe.....

The same way Coelecanth was taught as transitory for close to 50 years until one was found..... It's what they wanted to believe....

Give them what they want to hear and they will swallow it hook, line and sinker, regardless of the truth.....

Unless it conflicts with someone else's theory, then that person might protest and do actual research to disprove it.....

But it is always easier to get published by telling people what they want and expect to hear, then to go against the flow.....

3. I requote my point: "to the extent that manipulation occurs, it is in manipulation of scientific evidence by non-scientists, or scientists well outside their fields of expertise, in an effort to bolster those belief systems."
Tell that to those who discovered Piltdown Man....

4. And for those who feel the need to conduct such manipulation, because their faith is weak, they have my pity. And that pity continues up until the point that they publicly lie and evangelise their corrupt thinking. Then the pity turns to anger and respect exits by the front door.

No need to disrespect your fellow evolutionists, they simply felt they had no evidence and so made it up..... their faith was weak....
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: mark kennedy
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,238
10,136
✟284,596.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
We were having an adult convetsation until you busted in and derailed the topic.
I must have missed that part. Any derailment lay in the assertions you made that are contradicted by the evidence.

Darwinism is always appropiate when your talking natural selection, it was the theory that launched him into the academic stratosphere.
Darwinism is appropriate if you are referring to the basic concept of natural selection and sexual selection identified, investigated and demonstrated by Darwin and independently recognised by Wallace. It is less appropriate to describe the theory that has evolved from those early insights.

Darwin was well into the academic stratosphere before publishing On the Origin of Species. His meticulous field work on the Beagle, the diverse collection of flora and fauna he acquired during that voyage, the extensive geological observations made on it that offered confirmation of Lyell's uniformitarian position and included gems such as the perceptive recognition of the origin of coral islands, all captured in publications after his return, assured him of a sound reputation as a biologist and an outstanding reputation as a geologist. His subsequent work on barnacles led to a medal from the Royal Society and secured his reputation in the top ranks of biology. Only a handful of his acquaintances, such as Hooker and Lyle, were aware of his developing thoughts on evolution and yet he was already in that "academic stratosphere" you mention. Had he never published or developed his thoughts on evolution he would still be ranked among the greatest of Victorian scientists. It seems your knowledge of the man is lacking in detail.

Or it is a central theme in the develement of eugenetics (sic) through Galton and Oliver Wendell Holmes.
Irrelevant unless you are singing from the Creationist hymn book that falsely blames Darwin's theory for producing Hitler, in which case the sentence is irrelevant and distasteful.

You dont seem to have a clue about the Modern Synthesis developed at Harvard by Ernst Mayr or the reveberating thunder of atritious Darwinian culture tyrany during the culture war that produced the likes of you.
Just as you seem to be unaware that the author of the Modern Synthesis was not Mayr. There was no single author.
There was a need, by the 1930s, to blend (or synthesise) the genetics of Mendel, resurrected by de Vries, Correns and Tschermak at the turn of the century, the work on population genetics by the likes of Haldane and Sewall Wright and the remnants of Darwinian thinking. Arguably first into the fray was Dobzhansky, closely followed by Mayr, then by G.G. Simpson.

Regarding your closing clauses - "the reveberating thunder of atritious Darwinian culture tyrany during the culture war that produced the likes of you" - normally when words are concatenated in a phrase, clause or sentence it helps if they make sense.

ts called a unified theory sport, the RCC ruled western Europe for a thousand years with one called Aristolean Scholasticsism. It was a dialectical synthesis of Aristotle, Plato and Catholiicism. The modern synthesis is Darwinian naturalism and Mendelian Genetics. But you'll never bother learning any of that, why learn something when you can convince yourself you know everything by putting on these pedatic performances for an audiance that has left the theator.
I have learned all that and much more besides. Your own error strewn take on the matter suggests your are less knowledgeable on the topic than you imagine.

Classic argument from credulity from someone who has none. You dont even reference the work of your cherished secular clerics as you pretend to defend.
1. Classic argument from direct observation and analysis of the evidence.
2. Since the work of my "cherished secular clerics" runs to hundreds of thousands of research papers referencing them would be impractical and hardly relevant to my assertion.
3. Why do you think I would be pretending to defend them? Did your train of thought leave the station without you?

Yes, pitiful anger is hardly a substitute for substantive reason, your like the poster child. You go straight to that ad hominem fallacy and abandon any hope of a rational or evidential logic.
"straight to". For months and years I've read the nonsense you post. For months and years I've offered reasons why you were mistaken in your interpretation of the facts. For months and years I've offered alternative arguments. For months and years you have ignored all of this, responding with fatuous content. Then you pull out of the ether a claim of an ad hominem attack when none has occurred. I have no meaningful knowledge of you, your personality, your education, your political persuasion, or anything else that would provide grounds for an ad hominem attack. I attack the nonsense you post for being poor sicence, misinterpreted science, corrupted science, etc. If you don't like having your posts critiqued for espousing nonsense, then don't post nonsense.

You then patter on with some vague remarks that contain more typos than sense. What I can glean from it is that I seem to have hit a soft spot in your psyche and caused you some pain. I would probably regret that, were it not that it offers some hope you might, in the still of the night, in the theator (sic) of your mind, reconsider the egregious conclusions you have reached, for you can do so without for one moment abandoning your faith. I'm not expecting much of a result, as there is a lot of stony ground around, but once you've calmed down you could give it a go. You would have my full support in that.
 
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I must have missed that part. Any derailment lay in the assertions you made that are contradicted by the evidence.

Darwinism is appropriate if you are referring to the basic concept of natural selection and sexual selection identified, investigated and demonstrated by Darwin and independently recognised by Wallace. It is less appropriate to describe the theory that has evolved from those early insights.

Darwin was well into the academic stratosphere before publishing On the Origin of Species. His meticulous field work on the Beagle, the diverse collection of flora and fauna he acquired during that voyage, the extensive geological observations made on it that offered confirmation of Lyell's uniformitarian position and included gems such as the perceptive recognition of the origin of coral islands, all captured in publications after his return, assured him of a sound reputation as a biologist and an outstanding reputation as a geologist. His subsequent work on barnacles led to a medal from the Royal Society and secured his reputation in the top ranks of biology. Only a handful of his acquaintances, such as Hooker and Lyle, were aware of his developing thoughts on evolution and yet he was already in that "academic stratosphere" you mention. Had he never published or developed his thoughts on evolution he would still be ranked among the greatest of Victorian scientists. It seems your knowledge of the man is lacking in detail.

Irrelevant unless you are singing from the Creationist hymn book that falsely blames Darwin's theory for producing Hitler, in which case the sentence is irrelevant and distasteful.

Just as you seem to be unaware that the author of the Modern Synthesis was not Mayr. There was no single author.
There was a need, by the 1930s, to blend (or synthesise) the genetics of Mendel, resurrected by de Vries, Correns and Tschermak at the turn of the century, the work on population genetics by the likes of Haldane and Sewall Wright and the remnants of Darwinian thinking. Arguably first into the fray was Dobzhansky, closely followed by Mayr, then by G.G. Simpson.

Regarding your closing clauses - "the reveberating thunder of atritious Darwinian culture tyrany during the culture war that produced the likes of you" - normally when words are concatenated in a phrase, clause or sentence it helps if they make sense.

I have learned all that and much more besides. Your own error strewn take on the matter suggests your are less knowledgeable on the topic than you imagine.

1. Classic argument from direct observation and analysis of the evidence.
2. Since the work of my "cherished secular clerics" runs to hundreds of thousands of research papers referencing them would be impractical and hardly relevant to my assertion.
3. Why do you think I would be pretending to defend them? Did your train of thought leave the station without you?

"straight to". For months and years I've read the nonsense you post. For months and years I've offered reasons why you were mistaken in your interpretation of the facts. For months and years I've offered alternative arguments. For months and years you have ignored all of this, responding with fatuous content. Then you pull out of the ether a claim of an ad hominem attack when none has occurred. I have no meaningful knowledge of you, your personality, your education, your political persuasion, or anything else that would provide grounds for an ad hominem attack. I attack the nonsense you post for being poor sicence, misinterpreted science, corrupted science, etc. If you don't like having your posts critiqued for espousing nonsense, then don't post nonsense.

You then patter on with some vague remarks that contain more typos than sense. What I can glean from it is that I seem to have hit a soft spot in your psyche and caused you some pain. I would probably regret that, were it not that it offers some hope you might, in the still of the night, in the theator (sic) of your mind, reconsider the egregious conclusions you have reached, for you can do so without for one moment abandoning your faith. I'm not expecting much of a result, as there is a lot of stony ground around, but once you've calmed down you could give it a go. You would have my full support in that.

For years he has offered reasons why you are mistaken.

Yet it is only you that seems to be able to only point to typos......

Responding to his claim of ad-hominem attacks with that very ad-hominem attack.

Seems to me you just justified his claim and dissolved yours......
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mark kennedy
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I must have missed that part. Any derailment lay in the assertions you made that are contradicted by the evidence.

Yet you have no interest in actual evidence.

Darwinism is appropriate if you are referring to the basic concept of natural selection and sexual selection identified, investigated and demonstrated by Darwin and independently recognised by Wallace. It is less appropriate to describe the theory that has evolved from those early insights.

Its always appropriate when discussing the apriori assumption of universal common descent by exclusively naturalistic means.

Darwin was well into the academic stratosphere before publishing On the Origin of Species. His meticulous field work on the Beagle, the diverse collection of flora and fauna he acquired during that voyage, the extensive geological observations made on it that offered confirmation of Lyell's uniformitarian position and included gems such as the perceptive recognition of the origin of coral islands, all captured in publications after his return, assured him of a sound reputation as a biologist and an outstanding reputation as a geologist. His subsequent work on barnacles led to a medal from the Royal Society and secured his reputation in the top ranks of biology. Only a handful of his acquaintances, such as Hooker and Lyle, were aware of his developing thoughts on evolution and yet he was already in that "academic stratosphere" you mention. Had he never published or developed his thoughts on evolution he would still be ranked among the greatest of Victorian scientists. It seems your knowledge of the man is lacking in detail.

Baloney

Irrelevant unless you are singing from the Creationist hymn book that falsely blames Darwin's theory for producing Hitler, in which case the sentence is irrelevant and distasteful.

Because Darwinians like to forget how influential it was, no matter how distasteful it is.

Just as you seem to be unaware that the author of the Modern Synthesis was not Mayr. There was no single author.
There was a need, by the 1930s, to blend (or synthesise) the genetics of Mendel, resurrected by de Vries, Correns and Tschermak at the turn of the century, the work on population genetics by the likes of Haldane and Sewall Wright and the remnants of Darwinian thinking. Arguably first into the fray was Dobzhansky, closely followed by Mayr, then by G.G. Simpson.

Im aware that it was a collaborative effort, thanks foe at least googling it.

Regarding your closing clauses - "the reveberating thunder of atritious Darwinian culture tyrany during the culture war that produced the likes of you" - normally when words are concatenated in a phrase, clause or sentence it helps if they make sense.

I have learned all that and much more besides. Your own error strewn take on the matter suggests your are less knowledgeable on the topic than you imagine.

1. Classic argument from direct observation and analysis of the evidence.
2. Since the work of my "cherished secular clerics" runs to hundreds of thousands of research papers referencing them would be impractical and hardly relevant to my assertion.
3. Why do you think I would be pretending to defend them? Did your train of thought leave the station without you?

"straight to". For months and years I've read the nonsense you post. For months and years I've offered reasons why you were mistaken in your interpretation of the facts. For months and years I've offered alternative arguments. For months and years you have ignored all of this, responding with fatuous content. Then you pull out of the ether a claim of an ad hominem attack when none has occurred. I have no meaningful knowledge of you, your personality, your education, your political persuasion, or anything else that would provide grounds for an ad hominem attack. I attack the nonsense you post for being poor sicence, misinterpreted science, corrupted science, etc. If you don't like having your posts critiqued for espousing nonsense, then don't post nonsense.

You then patter on with some vague remarks that contain more typos than sense. What I can glean from it is that I seem to have hit a soft spot in your psyche and caused you some pain. I would probably regret that, were it not that it offers some hope you might, in the still of the night, in the theator (sic) of your mind, reconsider the egregious conclusions you have reached, for you can do so without for one moment abandoning your faith. I'm not expecting much of a result, as there is a lot of stony ground around, but once you've calmed down you could give it a go. You would have my full support in that.
Again, oh baloney. You completely missed the import and signifigance of the Bacon quote. Thats simply unforgivable since he is regarded as the father of inductive science and consequently the scientific revolution.

Thanks for showing me exchanges with you are a waste of time and thanks for the exchange.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,238
10,136
✟284,596.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Yet you have no interest in actual evidence.



Its always appropriate when discussing the apriori assumption of universal common descent by exclusively naturalistic means.



Baloney



Because Darwinians like to forget how influential it was, no matter how distasteful it is.



Im aware that it was a collaborative effort, thanks foe at least googling it.


Again, oh baloney. You completely missed the import and signifigance of the Bacon quote. Thats simply unforgivable since he is regarded as the father of inductive science and consequently the scientific revolution.

Thanks for showing me exchanges with you are a waste of time and thanks for the exchange.
Mark, now you are just being offensive. I had neither the time, the inclination, or the need to google any of my remarks. I have been studying the development of evolutionary theory for a decade or more. For you to declare as baloney my summary of some of Darwin's work prior to Origin means you are either ignorant of that work, or getting desperate. Etc. Etc. In one thing you are correct. Speaking to you further is a complete waste of time. And I do not thank you for the exchange. It has left me less intelligent than when I began it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Mark, now you are just being offensive. I had neither the time, the inclination, or the need to google any of my remarks. I have been studying the development of evolutionary theory for a decade or more. For you to declare as baloney my summary of some of Darwin's work prior to Origin means you are either ignorant of that work, or getting desperate. Etc. Etc. In one thing you are correct. Speaking to you further is a complete waste of time. And I do not thank you for the exchange. It has left me less intelligent than when I began it.
Agreed, the feeling is mutual.
 
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Seems to me everything he said is confirmed history....

Charles Darwin - Wikipedia

Darwin's Journal and Remarks was such a success as the third volume that later that year it was published on its own.

Darwin's book The Structure and Distribution of Coral Reefs on his theory of atoll formation was published in May 1842 after more than three years of work,

In 1853, it earned him the Royal Society's Royal Medal, and it made his reputation as a biologist.

Darwin completed his third geological book in 1846.

But the evolutionist can only see the origin of species. It is his success in real life that made his work of fiction sell.....
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
Evolution is a natural phenomenon, so well attested that less than 1% of practicing biologists doubt its reality.

so if about 99% of all geologists will say that the earth is flat we should believe them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heissonear
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
so if about 99% of all geologists will say that the earth is flat we should believe them?
We should look at the evidence which they present in support of that assertion and see if we agree with it. They can't just say the Earth is flat and expect us to agree--they have to make a case for it..

That is, incidentally, why your assertion of Intelligent Design fails.
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
We should look at the evidence which they present in support of that assertion and see if we agree with it

thanks. so we both agree about this point.

That is, incidentally, why your assertion of Intelligent Design fails.
no. but you are wlecome to believe it.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
thanks. so we both agree about this point.


no. but you are wlecome to believe it.
I believe it because all your arguments amount to is to discredit evolution. If geologists denied that the Earth was round and never presented any evidence that it was flat, we should be suspicious of their bald assertion. The bottom line is, that if you disprove the theory of evolution all you have is a disproven theory. You haven't established "design" as a viable replacement.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Tell that to those who discovered Piltdown Man....
Thought this might interest you, do you know what they replaced the Piltdown hoax with?

The Scottish anthropologist Sir Arthur Keith had built his long and distinguished career on the Piltdown fossil. When it was exposed it sent Darwinians scrambling, Arthur Keith had always rejected the Taung Child (Raymond Dart’s discovery) a chimpanzee child. Rightfully so since it’s small even for a modern chimpanzee. Keith would eventually apologized to Dart and Louis Leakey would take his suggested name for the stone age ape man, Homo habilis, but there was a very real problem. The skull was too small to be considered a human ancestor, this impasse became known as the Cerebral Rubicon and Leakey’s solution was to simply ignore the cranial capacity.

"Sir Arthur Keith, one of the leading proponents of Piltdown Man, was particularly instrumental in shaping Louis's thinking. "Sir Arthur Keith was very much Louis's father in science" noted Frida. Brilliant, yet modest and unassuming, Keith was regarded at the time of Piltdown's discovery as England's most eminent anatomist and an authority on human ancestry...a one man court of appeal for physical anthropologists from around the world....and his opinion that assured Piltdown a place on every drawing of humankinds family tree." (Ancestral Passions, Virginia Morell)​

Ever notice that there are no Chimpanzee ancestors in the fossil record? That’s because every time a gracial (smooth) skull, that is dug up in Asian or Africa they are automatically one of our ancestors.

Australopithecus afarensis: AL 288-1
Australopithecus africanus: Taung 1
Lucy a Chimpanzee
Taung Skull not Human-like 26 August 2014

These two are the only Hominid fossils I've seen that are really being passed of as transitional. They both have chimpanzee size brains, with all the features one would expect of a knuckle dragging, tree dwelling ape. What is far more important then finding something indicating a transitional fossil, which they have failed to do, is to understand what the basis of the three-fold of the human brain from that of apes.

This is the only transitional representing the evolution of our ancestors from 3 mya to 2 mya:

800px-Paranthropus_aethiopicus.JPG


Notice the distinctive mohawk looking thing going down the middle of the skull, it is far more distinctive in gorillas and doesn't exist in chimpanzee and human skulls. Then 2 million years ago human cranial capacity doubles over night with no explanation how this happens. This is clearly a transitional but it is universally agreed this fossil is not in the human (hominid) line. It represents the gorilla chimpanzee split. Both of which have since speciated and humans across the globe are one species. In spite of facing every ecological challenge on earth we have no speciated once. Humans and chimpanzees diverge by over 120,000,000 base pairs yet humans with billions in our population, diverge by 1/10th of 1%.

This whole theory of natural history is contrived. Thought you might find some of that interesting.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟177,504.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I believe it because all your arguments amount to is to discredit evolution. If geologists denied that the Earth was round and never presented any evidence that it was flat, we should be suspicious of their bald assertion. The bottom line is, that if you disprove the theory of evolution all you have is a disproven theory. You haven't established "design" as a viable replacement.

But, ummm, that is not even similar. If they denied it was round, the only other option would be flat, since that is the only other theory, whether they presented any evidence of it or not.

It is dissimilar because we deny evolution and the only other option presented is design. If only two options are available and one is disproved.....

Are you at this point suggesting a third we should look at????
 
Upvote 0