How do you know?

[jayem]

If there was no free will, then why would God let the Fall happen? Why does anyone sin?

Not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to know why.

The reason that I've heard most often is that God's plan all along was to send Jesus as the redeemer. If Adam and Eve (and by extension, all of mankind) didn't sin, then there'd be no need for a savior. But this idea implies that Adam and Eve were set up to disobey. They were pawns in God's long game. And thus, the logical corollary becomes that they had no free will. Or that their will to follow God's command was suspended.

But as my profile states, I'm a naturalist. I reject the existence of anything claimed to be supernatural, including all the gods of all religions.I see the Genesis story is an origin myth. Most all religions have created such legends to explain why there is suffering and death. Disobedience to the gods is the common thread. A well-known example is the Pandora myth of the Greeks. She was given a sealed jar (it became a box in later versions) and was told never to open it. Of course she did open it, which released hardship, misery, pain, and death into the world. There's no Jesus-like savior in Greek mythology. But remaining inside Pandora's jar, at the very bottom, is hope.

And BTW, like the Genesis story, the primary sinner who's disobedience spoils things for everyone is a woman. Which suggests to me that all these legends were fabricated by men.

 

[jayem]

Here's yet another way of looking at your question, @Tellyontellyon. Have you asked God to bring his kingdom into your life?

As I stated, I'm not a religious person. As I think about it, I never have been. I went to Bible school for a time as a kid. But even at 8 or 9 years old, deep down, I had a feeling that the Bible stories were mostly fairy tales. But I'm a happy person. My life so far has really been quite stress-free. I'm retired now after a rewarding 40+ year career in health care. At 70 years old, I feel fine and take no medication. I have a loving wife and family. And I'm fortunate to be financially secure. If there is a God, for some reason he's been very good to this non-believer.

But also, I have to be honest. How would it please God if I claimed to believe, but really had overwhelming doubts?

 

[Leaf473]

As I stated, I'm not a religious person. As I think about it, I never have been. I went to Bible school for a time as a kid. But even at 8 or 9 years old, deep down, I had a feeling that the Bible stories were mostly fairy tales. But I'm a happy person. My life so far has really been quite stress-free. I'm retired now after a rewarding 40+ year career in health care. At 70 years old, I feel fine and take no medication. I have a loving wife and family. And I'm fortunate to be financially secure. If there is a God, for some reason he's been very good to this non-believer.

But also, I have to be honest. How would it please God if I claimed to believe, but really had overwhelming doubts?

One quick observation is that believing in Jesus is not the same as believing in the Bible.

Beyond that, it would probably be good to move to a different place on CF. Have you read the statement of purpose for this section?

Statement of Purpose - Exploring Christianity Statement of Purpose

 

[Leaf473]

How do you know if you are following God's will?

I don't mean things like committing murder, or what to have for breakfast...
.... but the important decisions of your life path....

Proverbs 16:3 Entrust your works to the LORD, and your plans will be established.

Just came across this verse today. It's a different kind of response to your question. It kind of runs counter to the popular idea that God has a particular plan for your life.

 

[Sketcher]

Sometimes, God leads people like Abraham, with a specific calling that we can easily know if we're doing or not (Genesis 12:1-3).
Other times, God leads people like Joseph, through life circumstances (Genesis 39:11-28, Genesis 45:4-8). We don't necessarily know when he's leading us in this manner.

In both cases, we need to obey faithfully what we do know to do, so that God's will shall be done. Easy example: whether God is specifically calling us to missions in a certain country, or whether life just takes us to certain jobs, we do need to love God and only serve him along the way, and to love our neighbors as ourselves along the way. When we do that, that's when God's will for our lives gets done.

 

[jayem]

One quick observation is that believing in Jesus is not the same as believing in the Bible.

Beyond that, it would probably be good to move to a different place on CF. Have you read the statement of purpose for this section?

Statement of Purpose - Exploring Christianity Statement of Purpose

Your first paragraph touches on the point I want to make. I’m not attacking Christianity. In the the few postings I’ve made in this threadI, I don’t think I’ve even used the words Christians or Christianity. What I’m challenging is the Bible. I’m pointing out that the Genesis legend is logically incoherent. Believing it’s a word-for-word, literally true account leads to contradictory conclusions about the nature of God.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Here's yet another way of looking at your question, @Tellyontellyon. Have you asked God to bring his kingdom into your life

Yes, yes I have. I've prayed for God to guide me and lead me to the truth. It hasn't happened yet, maybe it will. But I do pray.

 

[Leaf473]

Your first paragraph touches on the point I want to make. I’m not attacking Christianity. In the the few postings I’ve made in this threadI, I don’t think I’ve even used the words Christians or Christianity. What I’m challenging is the Bible. I’m pointing out that the Genesis legend is logically incoherent. Believing it’s a word-for-word, literally true account leads to contradictory conclusions about the nature of God.

Again, if you want to continue, it would be good to move to a different place.

Statement of Purpose - Exploring Christianity Statement of Purpose

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, yes I have. I've prayed for God to guide me and lead me to the truth. It hasn't happened yet, maybe it will. But I do pray.

Are you asking to be led to a place of certainty? I would like that as well!

 

[ViaCrucis]

How do you know if you are following God's will?

I don't mean things like committing murder, or what to have for breakfast...
.... but the important decisions of your life path....

I don't believe that my life is a script that I'm supposed to play out. Instead God calls me, in Jesus, to carry my cross as a disciple, loving my neighbor. So the will of God for my life is what He has already taught and commanded. To act justly, love kindness, and walk humbly before God (Micah 6:8), to love my neighbor, to bless and not curse, to turn the other cheek, etc.

Not every circumstance in life has an obvious course of action. Nevertheless we must act, did we choose wisely or poorly? In some cases this question may be impossible to truly know until the end.

Is it God's will to marry this person or another person? I'd argue that it's God's will that if you get married, that you love your spouse as God commands. That's the will of God.

What's God's will about what job I should have? Again, I'd argue that regardless of what our vocations in life are, that we live out our vocations as Christian disciples--with love for our neighbor.

Not everyone has a spouse, not everyone has gainful employment; but even still we all have our vocations, the very many different inter-personal relationships. We're still sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandparents, grandchildren, friends, neighbors, colleagues, peers, fellow-shoppers, fellow pedestrians, fellow-drivers, writers, dreamers, thinkers, etc.

The will of God is not hidden, but revealed: It's that we love the Lord our God and love our neighbor as ourselves. It's that we trust in Jesus, take up our cross, and follow Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Leaf473]

I don't believe that my life is a script that I'm supposed to play out. Instead God calls me, in Jesus, to carry my cross as a disciple, loving my neighbor. So the will of God for my life is what He has already taught and commanded. To act justly, love kindness, and walk humbly before God (Micah 6:8), to love my neighbor, to bless and not curse, to turn the other cheek, etc.

Not every circumstance in life has an obvious course of action. Nevertheless we must act, did we choose wisely or poorly? In some cases this question may be impossible to truly know until the end.

Is it God's will to marry this person or another person? I'd argue that it's God's will that if you get married, that you love your spouse as God commands. That's the will of God.

What's God's will about what job I should have? Again, I'd argue that regardless of what our vocations in life are, that we live out our vocations as Christian disciples--with love for our neighbor.

Not everyone has a spouse, not everyone has gainful employment; but even still we all have our vocations, the very many different inter-personal relationships. We're still sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandparents, grandchildren, friends, neighbors, colleagues, peers, fellow-shoppers, fellow pedestrians, fellow-drivers, writers, dreamers, thinkers, etc.

The will of God is not hidden, but revealed: It's that we love the Lord our God and love our neighbor as ourselves. It's that we trust in Jesus, take up our cross, and follow Him.

-CryptoLutheran

I especially like the Micah 6:8 reference.
Not a specific course of action
(like, turn left at the intersection)
but a way of life.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

How do you know if you are following God's will?

I don't mean things like committing murder, or what to have for breakfast...
.... but the important decisions of your life path....

Wisdom.... Making mistakes and trying again - it gets easier.

Most of our mundane lives don't really matter. Most often our consciences will inform us when we are doing wrong.

Above all, if you want to know the will of God, is to be transformed by having your mind renewed (Romans 12:2).